Pope mentioned by Tim Staples 9/6/11

RedDawgMCM · #1 Sep 7, '11, 2:34 pm

Does anyone know what Pope Tim Staples was referring to in his hour of the Q&A? (according to Tim he died as he was about to pronounce as ex cathedra something heretical)

Thanks
Michael

SonCatcher · #2 Sep 7, '11, 3:55 pm

Don't know but I'd like to find out what you're talking about.

BTW - you're from a great place, RedDawgMCM. I have family there.

Mimi · #3 Sep 7, '11, 5:23 pm

I will check my copy of Pope Fiction (Patrick Madrid).

I think Staples mentions this in his talk "Jimmy Swaggart Made Me Catholic" -- is that where you heard it?

Would that have been Pope Honorius? I recall the story, but not the name -- grrr.

(off to check the book...)

No, it doesn't seem to be in Pope Fiction, but I highly recommend this book, as it addresses so many of the questions anti-Catholics like to throw around.

Mimi

RedDawgMCM · #4 Sep 7, '11, 5:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi

I will check my copy of Pope Fiction (Patrick Madrid).

I think Staples mentions this in his talk "Jimmy Swaggart Made Me Catholic" -- is that where you heard it?

No he alluded to it in the Q&A Open Forum on this past Tuesday's show....

freshwind · #5 Sep 7, '11, 7:28 pm

I do not know what he was referring to, but I do recall a rumour that John Paul I was considering a more liberal interpretation of the ABC teaching.

I have no idea how accurate it was, but I do remember it.

yinekka · #6 Sep 7, '11, 8:29 pm

I have just finished listening to that programme. It wasn't Pope Honorius because, as Tim said, he was condemned not for what he did but for what he didn't do.

Years ago I read something and Tim may have been referring to this pope - a pope who wrote his own translation of the bible and was going to publish it in spite of being advised that it wasn't a good translation and he died before he could promulgate it. I just Googled a summary of what I have written here but nothing came up.

Maybe if someone from CA reads your question they can ask Tim and publish the answer here. I would like to know his name too.

PJD1987 · #7 Sep 7, '11, 10:35 pm

I believe the Pope in question is Pope John XXI (or XX depending on the numbering of anti-popes) who is falsely rumored to have declared the "laws of nature" (i.e. gravity) heretical, and then was killed when his roof collapsed on him, ironically, due to gravity.

It was really the Bishop of Paris Etienne Tempier who acted without papal approval. The pope had only ordered an "investigation,".

After his death, apparently it was rumored he was a magician and writing a heretical book, and that the roof collapsing on him was an Act of God to prevent this from happening. Quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"On 14 May, 1277, while the pope was alone in this apartment, it collapsed; John was buried under the ruins, and died on 20 May in consequence of the serious injuries he had received. Soon after the death of this scholarly pope, various rumours were circulated, based upon his great medical learning; he was even accused of dealing in the magic arts. A few monastic chroniclers, seeing in him an enemy, contributed to these baseless tales, and thus an undeserved stigma was cast upon the memory of John XXI."

Sources:

Dales, Richard C. (1980) The Intellectual Life of Western Europe in the Middle Ages. Washington, DC: University Press of America. (pg. 254)

Rubenstein, Richard E. (2004) Aristotle's Children: How Christians, Muslims, and Jews Rediscovered Ancient Wisdom and Illuminated the Middle Ages. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt (pg. 216)

Joe Kelley · #8 Sep 8, '11, 4:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by yinekka

I have just finished listening to that programme. It wasn't Pope Honorius because, as Tim said, he was condemned not for what he did but for what he didn't do.

Years ago I read something and Tim may have been referring to this pope - a pope who wrote his own translation of the bible and was going to publish it in spite of being advised that it wasn't a good translation and he died before he could promulgate it. I just Googled a summary of what I have written here but nothing came up.

Maybe if someone from CA reads your question they can ask Tim and publish the answer here. I would like to know his name too.

I recall hearing that a long while ago. Can't remember either the source or the pope mentioned.

PJD1987 · #9 Sep 8, '11, 5:43 pm

The other Pope that may fit the description is Pope Liberius, who during the Arian Heresy days in 357 was exiled and imprisoned, succumbing to the tortures of his oppressors who forced him to sign a document legitimizing the Arian pseudo-council of Tyre.

I believe Pope John XXI fits the description provided more, however, as Liberius continued as Pope for 9 years following this, albeit as a broken man.

For more on this, I highly recommend the book One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church: The Early Church Was the Catholic Church by Kenneth Whitehead.

patrick457 · #10 Sep 8, '11, 11:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDawgMCM

Does anyone know what Pope Tim Staples was referring to in his hour of the Q&A? (according to Tim he died as he was about to pronounce as ex cathedra something heretical)

Thanks
Michael

For some reason I read the first sentence as "what [Pope Tim Staples] was referring to"...which made me go, Tim's a pope now!?