Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Sep 18, '11, 10:20 am
lwojo30 lwojo30 is offline
Trial Membership
 
Join Date: August 29, 2011
Posts: 1
Religion: Catholic
Default Does Jesus "quote" all the books of the Old Testament?

I am in a debate with a baptist friend who claims that the deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament are not inspired by the holy spirit because Jesus does not "quote", or "put his stamp on" any of them in the New Testament. According to this friend, Jesus "put his stamp on" all the rest of the Old Testament books. I'm not quite sure how to respond to this. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Sep 18, '11, 10:36 am
AdesteFideles AdesteFideles is offline
Junior Member
Prayer Warrior
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: August 29, 2011
Posts: 111
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Does Jesus "quote" all the books of the Old Testament?

Here is a list of all OT books which have been quoted in the NT, complete with specifics.

Your friends' assertion is incorrect, and we cannot definitively determine canon based on whether or not one part of canon quotes another.

Here are some Catholic resources on this topic:

Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger.
Catholic Legate: Canon of the Old Testament.
Catholic Legate: Are Deutorocanonical Books Part of the Bible?
Catholic Legate: Old Testament Canon: A Brief Survey of the Evidence.
Lumen Verum: Canon of the Bible.
Deutorocanonical Books in the New Testament.

Last edited by AdesteFideles; Sep 18, '11 at 10:54 am.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Sep 18, '11, 12:10 pm
fermat's Avatar
fermat fermat is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Posts: 1,530
Religion: Hardcore καθολικό
Default Re: Does Jesus "quote" all the books of the Old Testament?

You can also ask him where in the bible does it say that a book needs to be quoted by Jesus to be considered canonical. When he cannot answer, ask how he knows better than the first Christians what should be considered inspired.

In addition to the other great list, I would suggest Where We Got the Bible: Our Debt to the Catholic Church.
__________________
Come to my blog and read the musing of a very busy father of five six.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Sep 19, '11, 10:03 am
porthos11 porthos11 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2004
Posts: 5,410
Religion: Latin Catholic
Default Re: Does Jesus "quote" all the books of the Old Testament?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwojo30 View Post
I am in a debate with a baptist friend who claims that the deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament are not inspired by the holy spirit because Jesus does not "quote", or "put his stamp on" any of them in the New Testament. According to this friend, Jesus "put his stamp on" all the rest of the Old Testament books. I'm not quite sure how to respond to this. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Jesus did not quote from Nahum, Obadiah, or Esther.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Sep 22, '11, 12:56 pm
VicTorDominican VicTorDominican is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: September 21, 2011
Posts: 56
Default Re: Does Jesus "quote" all the books of the Old Testament?

Quote:
Originally Posted by porthos11 View Post
Jesus did not quote from Nahum, Obadiah, or Esther.
He didn't quote from Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 1 Chronicles, Job, Ezra, Nehemiah, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Joel, Amos, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, or Haggai either.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Sep 22, '11, 3:51 pm
Nicea325 Nicea325 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2010
Posts: 7,111
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Does Jesus "quote" all the books of the Old Testament?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwojo30 View Post
I am in a debate with a baptist friend who claims that the deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament are not inspired by the holy spirit because Jesus does not "quote", or "put his stamp on" any of them in the New Testament. According to this friend, Jesus "put his stamp on" all the rest of the Old Testament books. I'm not quite sure how to respond to this. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
And what does that prove? Do all the OT writers quote all the books of Moses? Do all the 12 quote all the books of the OT? What does it matter?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Sep 22, '11, 4:14 pm
pablope pablope is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 29, 2010
Posts: 7,328
Religion: catholic
Default Re: Does Jesus "quote" all the books of the Old Testament?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwojo30 View Post
I am in a debate with a baptist friend who claims that the deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament are not inspired by the holy spirit because Jesus does not "quote", or "put his stamp on" any of them in the New Testament. According to this friend, Jesus "put his stamp on" all the rest of the Old Testament books. I'm not quite sure how to respond to this. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
After responding to him, based on what has been provided to you by others, ask him the following questions altogether:

Where is the chapter and verse where St. Mark claims authorship of the Gospel of Mark? And how is one to know the Gospel of Mark should be in the Bible based on this chapter and verse? How does your baptist friend know that it is not just any person named Mark who wrote the Gospel of Mark? Why does he believe it is St. Mark?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Feb 24, '12, 11:38 am
hawkeye125646's Avatar
hawkeye125646 hawkeye125646 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2011
Posts: 114
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Does Jesus "quote" all the books of the Old Testament?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwojo30 View Post
I am in a debate with a baptist friend who claims that the deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament are not inspired by the holy spirit because Jesus does not "quote", or "put his stamp on" any of them in the New Testament. According to this friend, Jesus "put his stamp on" all the rest of the Old Testament books. I'm not quite sure how to respond to this. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Here are quotes, from Jesus, from the Deuterocanonical books:

Matthew 7: 11 If you, then, evil as you are, know how to give your children what is good, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him! 12 'So always treat others as you would like them to treat you; that is the Law and the Prophets. 13 'Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it; Tobit 4:11 Wisdom brings up her own children and cares for those who seek her. 12 Whoever loves her loves life, those who seek her early will be filled with joy. 13 Whoever possesses her will inherit honour, and wherever he walks the Lord will bless him.
Matthew 7:17 In the same way, a sound tree produces good fruit but a rotten tree bad fruit.18 A sound tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor a rotten tree bear good fruit. 19 Any tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown on the fire. 20 I repeat, you will be able to tell them by their fruits. Sirach 27:4 In a shaken sieve the rubbish is left behind, so too the defects of a person appear in speech.5 The kiln tests the work of the potter, the test of a person is in conversation. 6 The orchard where the tree grows is judged by its fruit, similarly words betray what a person feels. 7 Do not praise anyone who has not yet spoken, since this is where people are tested. 8 If you pursue virtue, you will attain it and put it on like a festal gown.
Matthew 6:35 Jesus made a tour through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and curing all kinds of disease and all kinds of illness. 36 And when he saw the crowds he felt sorry for them because they were harassed and dejected, like sheep without a shepherd. 37 Then he said to his disciples, 'The harvest is rich but the labourers are few, so ask the Lord of the harvest to send out labourers to his harvest.' Judith 11:19 I shall be your guide right across Judaea until you reach Jerusalem; there I shall enthrone you in the very middle of the city. And then you can round them up like shepherd-less sheep, with never a dog daring to bark at you. Foreknowledge tells me this; this had been foretold to me and I have been sent to reveal it to you.'
Matthew 12:42 On Judgement Day the Queen of the South will appear against this generation and be its condemnation, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and look, there is something greater than Solomon here. Read the whole book of Wisdom. What is greater than the wisdom of a King? Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Matthew 16:18 So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my community. And the gates of the underworld can never overpower it. Wisdom 16:13 Yes, you are the one with power over life and death, bringing to the gates of Hades and back again.
Matthew 22:25 Now we had a case involving seven brothers; the first married and then died without children, leaving his wife to his brother; Tobit 3:8 For she had been given in marriage seven times, and Asmodeus, the worst of demons, had killed her bridegrooms one after another before ever they had slept with her as man with wife. The servant-girl said, 'Yes, you kill your bridegrooms yourself. That makes seven already to whom you have been given, and you have not once been in luck yet
Mark4:16 Similarly, those who are sown on patches of rock are people who, when first they hear the word, welcome it at once with joy. 17 But they have no root deep down and do not last; should some trial come, or some persecution on account of the word, at once they fall away. Sirach 40:15 The sprigs of the godless will not make many branches, tainted roots find only hard rock. 16 The reed that grows by every lake and river's edge is the first plant to be uprooted.
Mark 9:47 And if your eye should be your downfall, tear it out; it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell 48 where their worm will never die nor their fire be put out. Judith 16:17 Woe to the nations who rise against my race! The Lord Almighty will punish them on judgement day. He will send fire and worms in their flesh and they will weep with pain for evermore.
John 15:6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a branch -- and withers; these branches are collected and thrown on the fire and are burnt. Wisdom 4:5 their branches, yet unformed, will be snapped off, their fruit be useless, too unripe to eat, fit for nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Feb 24, '12, 12:16 pm
Erich Erich is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2004
Posts: 3,374
Default Re: Does Jesus "quote" all the books of the Old Testament?

From http://scripturecatholic.com/septuagint.html,

Quote:
Of the approximately 300 Old Testament quotes in the New Testament, approximately 2/3 of them came from the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) which included the deuterocanonical books that the Protestants later removed. This is additional evidence that Jesus and the apostles viewed the deuterocanonical books as part of canon of the Old Testament.
Numerous examples follow.
__________________
Protons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Feb 24, '12, 12:22 pm
Nicea325 Nicea325 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2010
Posts: 7,111
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Does Jesus "quote" all the books of the Old Testament?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lwojo30 View Post
I am in a debate with a baptist friend who claims that the deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament are not inspired by the holy spirit because Jesus does not "quote", or "put his stamp on" any of them in the New Testament. According to this friend, Jesus "put his stamp on" all the rest of the Old Testament books. I'm not quite sure how to respond to this. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Ask your friend when is God required to quote scripture in order to make His Word? God is subject to Bible?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Feb 24, '12, 5:02 pm
Evan Evan is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 2,195
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Does Jesus "quote" all the books of the Old Testament?

If Jesus citing a book is necessary, you will not find him quoting anything from ANY of the epistles, acts, or revelation. Maybe those should go to. Just a few OT books and the Gospels. If it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me
__________________
===========
Evan
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture

Bookmarks

Tags
baptist, dueterocanon

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8569Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: Kellyreneeomara
5241CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: UpUpAndAway
4436Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3893Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3875SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2
3459Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3318Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3237Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3170For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: flower lady



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 2:28 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.