Impure Thoughts and Sin

freefrmscrpls · #1 Sep 21, '11, 3:02 am

I am constantly bombarded by temptations of impure thoughts because I was semi-addicted to them and did not know that they were a sin until recently. I never want these temptations to occur and I try hard to even prevent them from occuring.
However, is it a sin if I let the thought occur in my head and then immediately reject it? I am NOT doing this to allow myself to be aroused, but I am tired of trying to prevent thoughts in my brain before they occur...

PiousTemplar · #2 Sep 21, '11, 3:57 am

It is sin if you want them in your head, you keep them in your head, and you meditate on them. If you dont want them there, and they intrude without your consent, and you try to get rid of them, then it is not sin. I find personally its best to not fight them because they just get stronger, but instead just change the subject in your head and pretend it never happened.

God Bless.

Scoobyshme · #3 Sep 21, '11, 5:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by freefrmscrpls

I am constantly bombarded by temptations of impure thoughts because I was semi-addicted to them and did not know that they were a sin until recently. I never want these temptations to occur and I try hard to even prevent them from occuring.
However, is it a sin if I let the thought occur in my head and then immediately reject it? I am NOT doing this to allow myself to be aroused, but I am tired of trying to prevent thoughts in my brain before they occur...

The rubber meets the road in the will. If you consent to the thoughts, then you've crossed the line. If you reject them, then you've grown in virtue.

Example: I'm minding my own business and I get an impure thought that comes into my head about my girlfriend or some good looking woman with whom I work.

Choice 1: I think, "Yeah, boy, if I had half a chance to..., I would!" Then, I have sinned and need to go to sacramental Confession.

Choice 2: I think, "No, that's wrong. I reject that idea. I wouldn't do that. Immaculate Heart of Mary, send some angels to protect me please!" Then, you have not sinned, but have grown in virtue. Without temptation, there is no virtue.

**JRKH** · #4 Sep 21, '11, 6:28 am

Peace be to you.

You are in a great struggle, one that will take time to overcome. I know - I've been there.

Determining when a thought is sinful can be tricky - so I use an analogy....

The knock on the door

There is a knock your door.
You answer the door to see who it is.
Once you know who it is, you invite them in or not.

The random thought comes unbidden.
You recognize the thought as wrong
You reject the thought -
No Sin here...
BUT - remember that the devil is persistent. He'll keep knocking trying to wear you down. Trying to get in. So it is important to replace these random thoughts with something more powerful.

When I was trying to overcome lustful thoughts I developed a prayer and image that helped tremendously. I would pray...."Father Take me to the foot of the cross."
Immediately I could see the bottom of the cross, only up high enough to catch a glimpse of Christ's feet. The bottom of the cross sunk in ground soaked with the mixture of blood and sweat. The rough wood, stained dark and looking even more black with the approach of storm clouds. Looking up slightly I saw Christ's beautiful feet, now streaked with sweat and blood, pierced through with the nail. I rarely could look any higher. As I meditated on this, I could even smell the dirt, and sweat and blood.
All of this because of my sins.

Believe me, this killed any desire for sin. Of course I had to repeat this daily for a while, and still need it occasionally.

Might help you.

Peace
James

**Bookcat** · #5 Sep 21, '11, 8:04 am

from previous posts of mine)

Regarding thoughts

while Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts...just cause some lustful thought happens does not mean that one sinned....

(and one can have a sufficiently good reason to think about sexual matters...for instance studying moral theology....but care must be taken to avoid things that would be a problem...but that is another question)

What should we do with unwanted sexual thoughts or other bad thoughts..thoughts against God etc? Those pesky temptations that can come ....even though we are not seeking them etc...

(there are of course some things we should avoid that cause them..and there can be sin if it is something one should reasonably avoid....but often they come uninvited)

First...Relax. Do not worry.

Now are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter ...full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought...it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought -- and were drawn to it ---but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment...but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often -- but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not...even it they go on for a long time....

remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side--relax first of all and remember the above.

Next -- know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come.... or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock ...

tick tock...

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing...for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point -- thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think...it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. and just because they are REAL VIVID and almost "think themselves" does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

they can be annoying...but need cause no actual harm ....

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone..and has for centuries.....nothing new!...but I will note too that "some" have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once...it was a painful experience)..and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life)

----

Another help...is the distinction between "first thoughts and emotions" (as Baur calls em) what they call the prima of the prima.."the first of the first" (as one of my Professors called em...he was a Dominican)..these are involuntary things that just come up....such are not sins. They can tempt one of course to sin...or one can then proceed to some sin...but they are the stuff of the mind and emotions which "happen to one" ...and really the are opportunities for growing in virtue etc as well...

How to deal with these? First of relax...don't scruple...don't fear them...to try to swat them all as the come...just simply turn to other things...or the thing you are doing...or to God...(of course do not consent)...but if you are too defensive against them...they may get worse actually...and confuse you more...instead turn to God or again other good things...accept that hey..somethings wild thoughts will come to you...

(and these can happen to all of us by the way...)

There is a story from the desert of the early Centuries of the Church where a younger hermit when to an older one with the problems of thoughts happening to him all the time....the older hermit told him to go outside open his cloak and catch the wind.

The younger hermit said such is not possible...

the older hermit replied --neither is it possible to stop all the thoughts that can come to you...your choice is to say "yes" or "no".

So relax about "unwanted thoughts"....sometimes they just come...you know like unwanted phone calls from politicitians and salepersons etc....but you can always say "no thank you" or just ignore the call and go about your business

AnneTeresa · #6 Sep 21, '11, 9:08 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRKH

Peace be to you.

You are in a great struggle, one that will take time to overcome. I know - I've been there.

Determining when a thought is sinful can be tricky - so I use an analogy....

The knock on the door

There is a knock your door.
You answer the door to see who it is.
Once you know who it is, you invite them in or not.

The random thought comes unbidden.
You recognize the thought as wrong
You reject the thought -
No Sin here...
BUT - remember that the devil is persistent. He'll keep knocking trying to wear you down. Trying to get in. So it is important to replace these random thoughts with something more powerful.

When I was trying to overcome lustful thoughts I developed a prayer and image that helped tremendously. I would pray...."Father Take me to the foot of the cross."
Immediately I could see the bottom of the cross, only up high enough to catch a glimpse of Christ's feet. The bottom of the cross sunk in ground soaked with the mixture of blood and sweat. The rough wood, stained dark and looking even more black with the approach of storm clouds. Looking up slightly I saw Christ's beautiful feet, now streaked with sweat and blood, pierced through with the nail. I rarely could look any higher. As I meditated on this, I could even smell the dirt, and sweat and blood.
All of this because of my sins.

Believe me, this killed any desire for sin. Of course I had to repeat this daily for a while, and still need it occasionally.

Might help you.

Peace
James

Great post. Thank you.

shawnhd45 · #7 Apr 15, '12, 5:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoobyshme

The rubber meets the road in the will. If you consent to the thoughts, then you've crossed the line. If you reject them, then you've grown in virtue.

Example: I'm minding my own business and I get an impure thought that comes into my head about my girlfriend or some good looking woman with whom I work.

Choice 1: I think, "Yeah, boy, if I had half a chance to..., I would!" Then, I have sinned and need to go to sacramental Confession.

Choice 2: I think, "No, that's wrong. I reject that idea. I wouldn't do that. Immaculate Heart of Mary, send some angels to protect me please!" Then, you have not sinned, but have grown in virtue. Without temptation, there is no virtue.

I disagree with this... If you ponder on it not thinking fully, consenting fully without mitigating factors such as..habit, stress, psychological conditions then it is nothing but venial.

Marybeloved · #8 Apr 15, '12, 10:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnhd45

I disagree with this... If you ponder on it not thinking fully, consenting fully without mitigating factors such as..habit, stress, psychological conditions then it is nothing but venial.

It is not up to you to decide that when you have consented to impure thoughts when rejecting them was perfectly available to you as an option that it's only venial due to habit, stress etc. If you do something that is grave matter, with knowledge of its gravity and consent when you could have rejected it with prayer or distraction, it's your duty as a Catholic to confess it for your own good and to refrain from communion until we make that confession.

It is for your confessor to judge after you confess your sin and the circumstances, how grave it is (How complete your consent was) and to advise you accordingly for future cases and how to avoid them, reducing blame. Telling ourselves that our consent is not full merely because of habit/stress can very easily become "excusing" our sin since we all know how partial and subjective we naturally are with regards to accepting blame for wrong choices/actions/sin.

Psychological factors where we've been professionally told we have a disorder which over-rides our freedom are a diferent matter. But please remember that even if you have obsessive thoughts that don't go away, they cannot amount to "consent" until the soul gives in to them, and this latter is a matter of free will which alone determines presence of sin or seriousness of sin and presence/amount of love/charity. This all needs the guidance of a priest in confession and spiritual direction.

itullian · #9 Apr 16, '12, 12:29 am

i don't worry about it. they're just thoughts.

relax, life is tough enough.without more meaningless stressing.

yes,i admit to enjoying a lustfull thought of a beautiful woman now and then.

if God condemns me for that fine.
i'll argue with him later.

serviichristii · #10 Apr 16, '12, 12:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by itullian

i don't worry about it. they're just thoughts.

relax, life is tough enough.without more meaningless stressing.

yes,i admit to enjoying a lustfull thought of a beautiful woman now and then.

if God condemns me for that fine.
i'll argue with him later.

okay guys, it's official. God goes by the name of Itullian.

oh and btw, God doesn't care how "tough" life is for you. He doesn't care how you die or what circumstances you find yourself in. There is NO excuse to sin. Ever heard the story of Job? You can look it up yourself but the essence is that God doesn't care what trials and tribulations you face. He wants you to remain faithful. I will be praying for you.

Uzziah1 · #11 Apr 17, '12, 5:02 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by freefrmscrpls

I am constantly bombarded by temptations of impure thoughts because I was semi-addicted to them and did not know that they were a sin until recently. I never want these temptations to occur and I try hard to even prevent them from occuring.
However, is it a sin if I let the thought occur in my head and then immediately reject it? I am NOT doing this to allow myself to be aroused, but I am tired of trying to prevent thoughts in my brain before they occur...

Oh my heavens. Some more of this stuff.

Listen, suppose you see a maniac with a gun shoot your neighbor, and then he runs up to you and sticks the gun barrel in your mouth and says, "SAY YOUR PRAYERS!"

Are you going to be thinking about sex?

No.

You are going to be thinking about survival.

Why?

Because you VALUE your life.

Just have good priorities. As I said elsewhere, try, try, try, try, try to develop a good sense of humor -- the hardest thing you will ever do -- and work hard, and give, give, give, give, give.

When you were being "bombarded by impure thoughts," why, instead, weren't you preoccupied with making people laugh? Because you are immature! Why weren't you preoccupied with hard work? Because you are immature! Why weren't you preoccupied with giving, giving, giving, giving, giving? Because you are immature

DON'T waste time "rejecting" "bad thoughts." That is the essence of a waste of time. You have to THINK OF the "bad thoughts" to reject them! Instead, tell us why you weren't telling jokes, here! Do you understand what I am saying?

serviichristii · #12 Apr 17, '12, 5:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uzziah1

Oh my heavens. Some more of this stuff.

Listen, suppose you see a maniac with a gun shoot your neighbor, and then he runs up to you and sticks the gun barrel in your mouth and says, "SAY YOUR PRAYERS!"

Are you going to be thinking about sex?

No.

You are going to be thinking about survival.

Why?

Because you VALUE your life.

Just have good priorities. As I said elsewhere, try, try, try, try, try to develop a good sense of humor -- the hardest thing you will ever do -- and work hard, and give, give, give, give, give.

When you were being "bombarded by impure thoughts," why, instead, weren't you preoccupied with making people laugh? Because you are immature! Why weren't you preoccupied with hard work? Because you are immature! Why weren't you preoccupied with giving, giving, giving, giving, giving? Because you are immature

DON'T waste time "rejecting" "bad thoughts." That is the essence of a waste of time. You have to THINK OF the "bad thoughts" to reject them! Instead, tell us why you weren't telling jokes, here! Do you understand what I am saying?

i understand what you are saying and it seems fair, but your "policy" on non confession of masturbation makes it hard to take you seriously.

Uzziah1 · #13 Apr 17, '12, 5:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by serviichristii

i understand what you are saying and it seems fair, but your "policy" on non confession of masturbation makes it hard to take you seriously.

I am not going to bring that conversation over here. They axed the whole thread.

**Bookcat** · #14 Apr 17, '12, 7:47 am

AS Jesus teaches us "You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery." But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

(quoted here: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm)

Catechism:

1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.

Compendium issed by Pope Benedict XVI

395. When does one commit a mortal sin?

1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.

396. When does one commit a venial sin?

1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

shawnhd45 · #15 Apr 21, '12, 8:03 am

That's the thing with so many catholics.... people its not a legalistic system...if you think you have sinned go confess it (mortally) if not, pray to God for forgiveness and move on...when you try to break down every detail of what is and what isn't it sin your missing the whole meaning! Chill