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  #16  
Old Sep 27, '11, 1:47 pm
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

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Originally Posted by losh14 View Post
If you're a Catholic who does not venerate Mary or the Saints, what are your spiritual exercises? Do you have a prayer life, and if so what kind of prayer do you tend to pray?
Dear losh,

I tend to agree with Seamus L who said: "I don't believe it's possible to be a Catholic and not venerate the Blessed Mother." The reason that I agree is because God's Revelation in Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium of the Church all point to the unique veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and to veneration of the saints as well. When we pray the Creed, we profess our faith: I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of saints..." If we are professing belief then we need to live the truth we profess. Again, I recommend that you read and ponder slowly paragraphs in the Catechism referring to Mary especially, but also to the Communion of saints.

For instance:
Quote:
CCC 1474 - The Christian who seeks to purify himself of his sin and become holy with the help of God's Grace is not alone. The life of each of God's children is joined in Christ and through Christ in a wonderful way to the life of all other Christian brethren in the supernatural unity of the Mystical Body of Christ.

CCC 1475 - In the communion of saints, "a perennial link of charity exists between the faithful who have already reached their heavenly home...

CCC 956 - The intercession of the saints. Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness...
In another thread I already recommended paragraphs 963 ff which explain the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of the Church. I hope you will read and ponder these beautiful truths to be lived.

Love is always a free choice. I venerate Mary and the saints not only because I know it is true to do so. I really love them. It is difficult for me to understand why some would choose not to venerate the Mother of God, the Mother whom Jesus gave us from His Cross. I find it hard to understand why persons would not rejoice in our brothers and sisters who have gone before us living such holy lives. Why would we not ask them to intercede for us, and thank them and our Blessed Mother for their prayers and their love for us?
  #17  
Old Sep 27, '11, 2:48 pm
0129141 0129141 is offline
 
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

Sometimes I find it hard to relate my life to Mary's, in that I did almost nothing she did (in terms of day to day life, not relating to the Incarnation or Jesus.) But I love her and say her rosary everyday, and try to imitate the virtues I learn therin. I used to practice de Montfort's True Devotion to Mary, but don't now because I just didn't like putting myself into it. Its not that I'm alzy, but I thought its better to be honest to myself, since I don't like complicated devotions. I find I personally relate better to my patrons Thomas Aquinas and Anthony of Padua, but esp. Aquinas, because I have a similar personality to him, and we both enjoy studying (and you know I have a good relationship when I talk about our shared interests)
  #18  
Old Sep 28, '11, 6:05 am
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

I believe in the Communion of Saints, in which Mary had THE leading role as Mother of our Lord and Queen of Heaven and Earth.

However, I have never noticed any benefit in my life from praying to Mary or any other saint. I already have a direct line to the Father through Jesus, and I concentrate my prayer life on Him.
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  #19  
Old Sep 28, '11, 8:00 am
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

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Originally Posted by DaveBj View Post
I believe in the Communion of Saints, in which Mary had THE leading role as Mother of our Lord and Queen of Heaven and Earth.

However, I have never noticed any benefit in my life from praying to Mary or any other saint. I already have a direct line to the Father through Jesus, and I concentrate my prayer life on Him.
Dave,
I think that you give a good answer here.

Each of us are different. Some, like jgs777, obviously find great benefit from devotion to Our Lady and the communion of saints.
Others, like yourself and me, prefer to pray directly to God (either in the person of the Father or in the person of Jesus).

In the view of the Church, both are correct and acceptable.

Peace
James
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  #20  
Old Sep 28, '11, 10:51 am
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saveusfromhell saveusfromhell is offline
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

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Originally Posted by TrueLight View Post
Even if they died in mortal sin?
if on your death bed you are in mortal sin, and confessionis not available, then, hopfully you can obtain, perfect contrition for your sins.
the passion of the christ, film, if you watch it may help you to obtain this, by focusing on the pain christ went through to save your soul.
  #21  
Old Sep 28, '11, 11:57 am
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MariaChristi MariaChristi is offline
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBj View Post
I believe in the Communion of Saints, in which Mary had THE leading role as Mother of our Lord and Queen of Heaven and Earth.

However, I have never noticed any benefit in my life from praying to Mary or any other saint. I already have a direct line to the Father through Jesus, and I concentrate my prayer life on Him.
Dear DaveBj,

I'm glad you believe in the Communion of Saints, and acknowledge Mary's unique place in God's plan. Union with God is our ultimate goal, of course. Through Jesus and by the power of the Holy Spirit, we go to the Father. Nevertheless, God Himself chose to come to us humbly through Mary, His creature. There is so much to ponder in His Incarnation! Mary and the Saints pondered and lived the Truth they heard from God. I think it is important to pay attention to them, gratefully and lovingly, as we seek union with God. No human person ever loved Jesus on this earth as Mary did. She is our Mother and Model. She is all we are called to be.

The fact that you may never have "noticed" any benefit in your life from praying to Mary or any other saint, does not mean that they have not been interceding for you with Jesus in heaven. A dear priest friend used to say, "There will be many surprises in heaven". Some may be "surprised" to learn all we owe Mary and the Saints who are always loving and praying for us, because of their union with God. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
Quote:
CCC 828 - By canonizing some of the faithful, i.e. by solemnly proclaiming that they practiced heroic virtue and lived in fidelity to God's grace, the Church recognizes the power of the Spirit of holiness within her and sustains the hope of believers by proposing the saints to them as models and intercessors. The saints have always been the source and origin of renewal in the most difficult times in the Church's history. Indeed holiness is the hidden source and infallible measure of her apostolic activity and missionary zeal.
The Lord Jesus taught us the perfect prayer in teaching us to pray "Our Father", and we continue to learn how to pray and live that prayer by also looking to Mary and the Saints who lived His Life so nobly on this earth and are eternally united with Him now. The Communion of Saints is a gift of God's Love which we can enter more fully every day, by His Grace.
  #22  
Old Sep 28, '11, 12:01 pm
garysibio garysibio is offline
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

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Originally Posted by pinctor View Post
On the other hand, I heard a missioner many years ago, say from the pulpit, "Your salvation depends on your devotion to Mary!"
I thought then, as I think now, this statement to be over the top.
Way over the top, IMO. You might be interested in this thread.
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  #23  
Old Sep 28, '11, 12:03 pm
garysibio garysibio is offline
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

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Originally Posted by jgs777 View Post
A devotion to Our Blessed Mother and the Saints is vital in trying to obtain everlasting life.

If you ask them to pray for you, you have a better chance of joining Our Heavenly Father in His Kingdom.

I wear the Brown Scapular, and The Blessed Mother said, "Whosoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire"

THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! and EVERYONE should wear one!!

God Bless You!!!!!!
If you wear the brown scapular and die in a state of mortal sin, will you escape eternal fire? I do not believe that wearing a scapular overrides the Church's rejection of the doctrine of eternal security.
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  #24  
Old Sep 28, '11, 12:13 pm
garysibio garysibio is offline
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

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Originally Posted by jgs777 View Post
I do not know if the Church says this is vital or not, what I meant by saying that was your chances will be much greater if you have the Mother of Jesus on your side than if you go it alone.
I don't think this is what you mean but it almost sounds like we are to bribe Mary to be on our side with devotion. You make it sound like she's running a mob protection racket.

I wish someone could explain to me why Mary would even want to be venerated.
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  #25  
Old Sep 28, '11, 12:14 pm
garysibio garysibio is offline
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

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Originally Posted by MS_SURVEYOR View Post
No! She would be sure the scapular would be removed before death.
How could you possibly know that?
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  #26  
Old Sep 28, '11, 12:19 pm
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Miriam1947 Miriam1947 is offline
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgs777 View Post
A devotion to Our Blessed Mother and the Saints is vital in trying to obtain everlasting life.

If you ask them to pray for you, you have a better chance of joining Our Heavenly Father in His Kingdom.

I wear the Brown Scapular, and The Blessed Mother said, "Whosoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire"

THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! and EVERYONE should wear one!!

God Bless You!!!!!!
Careful here. That sounds close to superstition and that is not cool.
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  #27  
Old Sep 28, '11, 12:31 pm
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MariaChristi MariaChristi is offline
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

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Originally Posted by 0129141 View Post
Sometimes I find it hard to relate my life to Mary's, in that I did almost nothing she did (in terms of day to day life, not relating to the Incarnation or Jesus.) But I love her and say her rosary everyday, and try to imitate the virtues I learn therin. I used to practice de Montfort's True Devotion to Mary, but don't now because I just didn't like putting myself into it. Its not that I'm alzy, but I thought its better to be honest to myself, since I don't like complicated devotions. I find I personally relate better to my patrons Thomas Aquinas and Anthony of Padua, but esp. Aquinas, because I have a similar personality to him, and we both enjoy studying (and you know I have a good relationship when I talk about our shared interests)
Dear friend ( I didn't want to use all the numbers, so I trust I can call you "friend") in Christ,

Mary's vocation was and is unique in that she was called to be the Mother of God, but she is nevertheless the Model for all of us, men and women, who seek to be disciples of Jesus. Through Jesus, by the power of the Holy Spirit we too are called to be united to Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the perfection of Charity.

We are all called to holiness, and Mary is for us the icon of the Church, i.e. in her we see the Church already brought to perfection. None of us can imitate Mary in her "physical" reality as Mother of God, but spiritually we can imitate her, and relate to her, in her "Yes" to God's Will. Our daily lives are far different in a material sense of time and culture, but we received in Baptism, the cleansing of sin and the indwelling of the Trinity. The Life of Christ began in us in a very real, though spiritual, way. We, like Mary, can carry Him to others.

I was blessed to have been introduced to the Total Consecration taught by St. Louis de Montfort when I was a teenager. I did not understand it well but today I am so very grateful for that Act by which I gave myself totally to Jesus through Mary. I have read St. Louis De Montfort's "True Devotion" many times and I continue to learn more from it.

Perhaps you may want to go back to it later on in your life. It is not a book one reads only once or twice; much like scripture it continues to teach more, the more it is read and pondered. I'm glad that you continue to love Mary and pray the Rosary. Our Lady is a quiet influence in our lives; she is humble and only desires to bring us closer to God. St. De Montfort wrote that when we say "Mary", she says "God"

St. Thomas and St. Anthony are wonderful saints. Of course, I never met a saint I didn't think was wonderful! Each one is unique and brings so much reflected light from God into the Church. It is good to study, prayerfully, as St Thomas and St Anthony did, for we need to keep asking, seeking and knocking on the door of God's Heart for His Love and Wisdom that we may say our own "Yes" to His Will for us, and share the Good News of His Love with others.
  #28  
Old Sep 28, '11, 3:07 pm
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

I was thinking about a prayer to Mary short and to the point like the Jesus prayer - "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner."
I came up with (and it's really a condensed version of the second half of the Hail Mary)
"Lady Mary, Mother of God, pray for and protect us sinners evermore."
Any comments?
  #29  
Old Sep 28, '11, 3:16 pm
MS_SURVEYOR MS_SURVEYOR is offline
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

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Originally Posted by garysibio View Post
If you wear the brown scapular and die in a state of mortal sin, will you escape eternal fire? I do not believe that wearing a scapular overrides the Church's rejection of the doctrine of eternal security.
Quote:
How could you possibly know that?

Quote:
Miriam1947

Careful here. That sounds close to superstition and that is not cool.
The Wonders of the Brown Scapular

Brown Scapular Miracles

OUR LADY'S MESSAGE TO THE WORLD


Then of course if you do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints, none of this will mean anything to you.

But what is the meaning of the brown scapular? We cannot wear her scapular and live a sinful life. Our Lady's promise means at the hour of death we will receive the grace of final perseverance or the grace of final contrition. St. Alphonsus tells of the prostitute who heard of the scapular promise and wore it but continued in her life of sin. Years later as she lay dying, sick in a hospital, and all alone, she thought of her life and looked at her scapular. She called for a nurse and cried out: 'take off this scapular for surely the torments and fires of hell could not be worse than the pain it is causing me.' The nurse took off the scapular and the woman immediately died in her sins. Our Lady will not be mocked!

A person who wears the Brown Scapular, and continues to live a sinful life is committing another sin that borders on sacrilege. As we saw in the previous example, the person will not die wearing the scapular. As death approached, the scapular was the cause of her agony instead of being a source of consolation! Pope Pius XI warned the faithful that the Blessed Virgin loves all who love Her, nevertheless those who wish to have the Blessed Mother as a helper at the hour of death, must in life merit such a signal favor by abstaining from sin and laboring in Her Honor.


More Brown Scapular
  #30  
Old Sep 28, '11, 3:47 pm
garysibio garysibio is offline
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Default Re: Catholics who do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS_SURVEYOR View Post
The Wonders of the Brown Scapular

Brown Scapular Miracles

OUR LADY'S MESSAGE TO THE WORLD


Then of course if you do NOT practice veneration of Mary or the Saints, none of this will mean anything to you.

But what is the meaning of the brown scapular? We cannot wear her scapular and live a sinful life. Our Lady's promise means at the hour of death we will receive the grace of final perseverance or the grace of final contrition. St. Alphonsus tells of the prostitute who heard of the scapular promise and wore it but continued in her life of sin. Years later as she lay dying, sick in a hospital, and all alone, she thought of her life and looked at her scapular. She called for a nurse and cried out: 'take off this scapular for surely the torments and fires of hell could not be worse than the pain it is causing me.' The nurse took off the scapular and the woman immediately died in her sins. Our Lady will not be mocked!

A person who wears the Brown Scapular, and continues to live a sinful life is committing another sin that borders on sacrilege. As we saw in the previous example, the person will not die wearing the scapular. As death approached, the scapular was the cause of her agony instead of being a source of consolation! Pope Pius XI warned the faithful that the Blessed Virgin loves all who love Her, nevertheless those who wish to have the Blessed Mother as a helper at the hour of death, must in life merit such a signal favor by abstaining from sin and laboring in Her Honor.


More Brown Scapular
This is all private revelation. It is not binding on believers according to the teachers of the church. The fact that you believe that something from a private revelation overrides public revelation tells me that you have gone over the top with respect to Mary. You are preaching another gospel.
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