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  #1  
Old Sep 28, '11, 4:51 pm
afiala2 afiala2 is offline
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Default Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

No.

Israel is God's chosen people. Jesus came to save the Jews first, then the world (Matt. 10:5-6, 15:24). Catholicism sees itself as the fulfillment of Jewish Prophesy. The NT is full of references to the OT and other Jewish writings. If we lose our Jewish ties, we no longer have an argument to have been founded by The Messiah, the Son of God.
One must remember that if you are attacking the NT as anti-Semitic, you are attacking the RCC. The RCC wrote, gathered, and approved the books that were included in the NT, through what we believe to be the Divine Inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
The accusation of Catholicism being anti-Semitic is a huge anti-Catholic whopper, if I ever heard one. Jesus who we believe is God and man was a Jew. His Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary who we hold in more honor and esteem than any other human, was a good faithful Jew. His foster-Father Joseph and His original Apostles were all Jews in nationality and faith. That is until they became Catholic of course, but in nationality they are Jewish or a part of Israel. Catholicism could/should be viewed as the New Jewish faith or New Covenant started by the Son, The Messiah. We believe salvation comes from the Jews in the person of Jesus Christ, who was a descendent of David. We hold men like Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Solomon in high esteem along with the prophets like Jeremiah. These men and their stories and teachings are in our OT which we also consider to be The Word of God along with the NT. The OT is almost ¾ of the length of the entire Catholic Bible which is made up of Jewish teachings and Jewish Prophets. OT has 46 books, while NT only has 27, which means majority of what we believe is very Jewish in content and origin. We believe we are the New Israel where we are all inclusive of all nations not just the Jews, but Gentiles alike. We are the exact opposite of being discriminatory. If Catholics were to be anti-Semitic, we would be discriminatory against ourselves as we are either actually Jews or believe we are 'adopted Jews’ as a part of God's family if we are Gentiles.
My wife, through whom our kids are also, is of Jewish decent in race/nationality but not faith, while I am a gentile. But we share the Catholic faith. But if we didn't believe Christ was the Messiah, my family would most decidedly be Jewish in faith that is if I would be accepted as a gentile and my family as not being fully Jewish in decent.
The perceived "anti-Semitic" -ness of the NT isn't there; people can have warped perceptions about a lot of things. Just because someone says something unintelligent doesn’t mean they are right. In the NT, Jesus was actually calling out the leaders of the day and saying why aren't you being better Jews or why aren't you observing the laws Moses gave you. It was Jesus’ place to say this because He is the Son of God, the Only begotten Son of the God of Israel, sent by His Father to save the world. If someone does something bad, when you recount the story the antagonist of the story will always sound bad, but that doesn't mean it isn't true and accurate or that it automatically becomes the source of future hatred. Rather the hatred towards Jesus in the story should show the reader how pointless hatred is and that you should never want anyone to suffer the way Jesus did, if you have any compassion in your heart.
Rather people who are trying to be like the Nazis and not completely condemning the horrific actions of the Nazis are to blame for any continued hatred being spread. Remember Nazis killed Catholics too; St. Maximilian Kolbe was put to death by the Nazis. Many Catholics lost their lives because they were “Jewish sympathizers”. Where does it say you should kill people and persecute people in the NT? Nazis weren’t quoting the NT as their battle cry, and even if someone someday does, it doesn't mean it is in the NT. It just means those hate filled people hate Catholicism. The only thing the NT is against is sin and death.
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  #2  
Old Sep 28, '11, 4:52 pm
afiala2 afiala2 is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

God wants what is best for each individual and society as a whole, that’s why He sent us His Son to teach us who gave us a Church which gave us the NT. But it is the Church that safeguards The Bible’s interpretation, something many people ignore. So if people are attacking the NT, it is an argument no one should be interpreting the NT outside the RCC because we don’t promote killing like some “Christian” denominations do who accept abortion as morally good. These same “Christian” denominations also claim to use the Bible as their sole source of faith unlike Catholics. Rather murder is a violation of God’s command thou shall not kill (Exodus 20:13). Wanting to persecute and do harm to someone is in the same vain as killing them, not a Christian thing to do. Some people call themselves Christian citing the NT but don’t follow or teach what Christ taught and that is the source of confusion on the subject not the NT itself. Similar to the KKK saying it is Christian to kill blacks or burn crosses. By the way, the KKK doesn’t like Catholics either. Someone saying the NT is anti-Semitic is simply someone with a vendetta against the RCC or is just very confused.
Now that is not to say there haven’t been mistakes made by past/present Catholics, Popes, Saints, and other leaders, but I think every commandment of God’s has been under attack by the Church of Sinners that we are over the years (everyone is a sinner, Catholic or non-Catholic), which is why Jesus gave us the Sacrament of Confession. However most of the time the accusations on this subject are flat out lies trying to make Catholics look bad by these same people with a vendetta against the RCC, like accusations against the Pope during would WWII. Pope Pius XII was against Nazis before and during His Papacy, His efforts saved many Jewish lives when it was needed the most during Nazi persecution.
To be fair to Luther the Nazis weren’t quoting Him that I am aware of but the hatred started somewhere. Martin Luther, who happened to be from Germany of all places, was anti-Semitic and even wrote a book about it. I wander if Luther knew Jesus was a Jew? I am not really convinced He read the Bible or at least the first verse of the NT, Matthew 1:1. Luther was also a former Catholic monk, turned anti-Catholic who could be considered the father of Protestantism and was the founder of His Lutheran Church. Now I know most present day Lutherans and Protestants don’t share Luther’s feelings in this area, but the point I am making is their isn’t a book that I am aware of that is credited as being written by Jesus or His Apostles (beginning of RCC) that has a valid accusation of being anti-Semitic because they were all Jews themselves and the idea of such a book would be ridiculous. But yes as unbelievable as it is (why I started this thread), people invalidly are claiming the NT is anti-Semitic. As I have stated it isn’t a logical argument and I would consider it preposterous to claim Jesus and the Apostles were anti-Semitic. Catholicism is Jewish in its origin and source of teachings, how can we be against ourselves? Luther was Catholic than left the Church and then later became anti-Semitic or his anti-Semitism contributed to why he left the church. Also keep in mind Luther wanted to throw out some of the NT (and did throw out some of the OT) because it conflicted with his teachings, ironic sense he preached sola scriptura.
GKC on SS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFqeb4decbk
More on SS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEsMj...eature=related
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  #3  
Old Sep 28, '11, 4:53 pm
afiala2 afiala2 is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

When I heard the story of the tortoise and the heir I didn't develop a hatred of rabbits, like Elmer Fudd apparently did, rather I listened to THE MORAL OF THE STORY. I didn't say those darn arrogant rabbits, or hate Elmer when he was the antagonist to Bugs Bunny. People who have hatred toward other people have it for irrational reasons and try to blame it on the next thing that comes to mind that they hate. Even if someone kills your child you shouldn’t hate them for it, rather Jesus taught love your enemy and do not have vengeance in your heart. The NT says quite the opposite of instructing to kill and persecute. If you think the NT is anti-Semitic you need to read the NT again without your personal bias against Catholicism to see THE MORAL OF THE STORY. And THE OBVIOUS, if we were anti-Semitic we would have to stop reading the Bible and being Catholic because JESUS IS A JEW. The moral is we should love each other as siblings and not hate or hold grudges. Also keep in mind, most of the NT was written by Jews (maybe all of it was, but I am not totally sure on all authors), but they were all Catholic in faith though not actually called Catholic at the time, because the term Catholic wasn’t used til early 2nd century to distinguish the True Church from Christian heretics.
The Gospels of Jesus Christ and the other Letters in the NT are not something that produces hatred. Rather it is the message of world peace that is inclusive to all people, and would result in world peace if everyone took the time to listen. I pray that everyone will be united as TRUE followers of Jesus someday, but until that day comes as a rule of thumb when someone hates Jews they are also anti-Catholic as well (e.g. Nazis, KKK, Luther).
Please let me know if there is something glaring I am missing from history to explain why someone would validly claim the Catholic Church, which was founded by Jesus and His Apostles who are Jewish, has been anti-Semitic. Or why someone would ever claim the NT, which was written by Jewish men, is anti-Semitic or how Jesus, who is a Jew Himself and the underlying subject of the NT, taught others to be anti-Semitic. Or weigh in with comments, thanks.
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  #4  
Old Sep 28, '11, 7:01 pm
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Aelred Minor Aelred Minor is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

Unfortunately, some Catholics have been anti-Semitic, and no doubt some still are. In such cases though the person is not Catholic enough, not too Catholic.
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  #5  
Old Sep 29, '11, 2:07 am
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Miriam1947 Miriam1947 is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

OP, paragraphs are your friends.

Haven't read this even though the title was quite interesting.
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  #6  
Old Sep 29, '11, 5:07 am
Hail_Linus Hail_Linus is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by afiala2 View Post
No.

Israel is God's chosen people. Jesus came to save the Jews first, then the world (Matt. 10:5-6, 15:24). Catholicism sees itself as the fulfillment of Jewish Prophesy. The NT is full of references to the OT and other Jewish writings. If we lose our Jewish ties, we no longer have an argument to have been founded by The Messiah, the Son of God.
One must remember that if you are attacking the NT as anti-Semitic, you are attacking the RCC. The RCC wrote, gathered, and approved the books that were included in the NT, through what we believe to be the Divine Inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
The accusation of Catholicism being anti-Semitic is a huge anti-Catholic whopper, if I ever heard one. Jesus who we believe is God and man was a Jew. His Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary who we hold in more honor and esteem than any other human, was a good faithful Jew. His foster-Father Joseph and His original Apostles were all Jews in nationality and faith. That is until they became Catholic of course, but in nationality they are Jewish or a part of Israel. Catholicism could/should be viewed as the New Jewish faith or New Covenant started by the Son, The Messiah. We believe salvation comes from the Jews in the person of Jesus Christ, who was a descendent of David. We hold men like Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Solomon in high esteem along with the prophets like Jeremiah. These men and their stories and teachings are in our OT which we also consider to be The Word of God along with the NT. The OT is almost ¾ of the length of the entire Catholic Bible which is made up of Jewish teachings and Jewish Prophets. OT has 46 books, while NT only has 27, which means majority of what we believe is very Jewish in content and origin. We believe we are the New Israel where we are all inclusive of all nations not just the Jews, but Gentiles alike. We are the exact opposite of being discriminatory. If Catholics were to be anti-Semitic, we would be discriminatory against ourselves as we are either actually Jews or believe we are 'adopted Jews’ as a part of God's family if we are Gentiles.
My wife, through whom our kids are also, is of Jewish decent in race/nationality but not faith, while I am a gentile. But we share the Catholic faith. But if we didn't believe Christ was the Messiah, my family would most decidedly be Jewish in faith that is if I would be accepted as a gentile and my family as not being fully Jewish in decent.
The perceived "anti-Semitic" -ness of the NT isn't there; people can have warped perceptions about a lot of things. Just because someone says something unintelligent doesn’t mean they are right. In the NT, Jesus was actually calling out the leaders of the day and saying why aren't you being better Jews or why aren't you observing the laws Moses gave you. It was Jesus’ place to say this because He is the Son of God, the Only begotten Son of the God of Israel, sent by His Father to save the world. If someone does something bad, when you recount the story the antagonist of the story will always sound bad, but that doesn't mean it isn't true and accurate or that it automatically becomes the source of future hatred. Rather the hatred towards Jesus in the story should show the reader how pointless hatred is and that you should never want anyone to suffer the way Jesus did, if you have any compassion in your heart.
Rather people who are trying to be like the Nazis and not completely condemning the horrific actions of the Nazis are to blame for any continued hatred being spread. Remember Nazis killed Catholics too; St. Maximilian Kolbe was put to death by the Nazis. Many Catholics lost their lives because they were “Jewish sympathizers”. Where does it say you should kill people and persecute people in the NT? Nazis weren’t quoting the NT as their battle cry, and even if someone someday does, it doesn't mean it is in the NT. It just means those hate filled people hate Catholicism. The only thing the NT is against is sin and death.
Catholicism is not Anti-Semitic. However, there are bad Catholics who are anti-Semitic, racist, communists, extreme right wing nut...But they are all bad Catholics and not practicing Catholicism.

Antin-Semitic Catholics and Christians often like to make the crazy argument all Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites were Jews. They insist that Christianity descends from the Israelites and not the Jews. They insist Jesus was an Israelite and not a Jew. I was in debate with one such Catholic about a year ago (one that does not attend Mass) and I simply explained that in the Gospel of John Jesus said to the Samaritan woman "Salvation was of the Jews." The response was "oh, some scribe stuck that in there by mistake." How can you argue with a lunatic who even after the facts are presented to them, they continue with their lunacy?

Additionally, the Anti-Semites I have met usually do not want to physically harm Jews. In fact they have deluded themselves into believing the Holocaust never happened.

But there are nuts everywhere and there are also Jews that are anti-catholic, racist, and even anti-Judaism. Just look at Pope Pius XII. The Jews used to consider him a hero to the Jews and now just like the Catholic anti-semites they are re-writing history and portraying him as an anti-semite. But of course, like the Anti-Semetic Catholics, these these types of Jews are not really practicing Jews either.
  #7  
Old Sep 29, '11, 6:43 am
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trdchubi trdchubi is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

If there are any, you can count me out. I'm not one of them
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How then can a gentile who knows Christ as Savior not love the Jewish people, a people loved by God, chosen by him for his own glory?

www.catholicsforisrael.com
  #8  
Old Sep 29, '11, 6:48 am
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Miriam1947 Miriam1947 is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

Salvation is from the Jews is a great book by Roy Schoeman.

He converted to the CC. Part of his conversion story is told at the back of the book.
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  #9  
Old Sep 29, '11, 8:19 pm
afiala2 afiala2 is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trdchubi View Post
If there are any, you can count me out. I'm not one of them
All I really needed to say is your quote on your signature:

How then can a gentile who knows Christ as Savior not love the Jewish people, a people loved by God, chosen by him for his own glory?

God Bless!
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  #10  
Old Sep 29, '11, 8:30 pm
Birdpreacher Birdpreacher is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

We certainly did not make any friends during the middle ages with our "Passion Plays" I have to say that when JPII placed an apology in the wailing wall that it was a powerful moment
  #11  
Old Sep 29, '11, 8:44 pm
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Miriam1947 Miriam1947 is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

I have never been anti-Semitic, anti-Jew. I am old enough to remember Jews with numbers tattooed on their arms.

I lived in Brooklyn, NY in a mixed neighborhood. We had many groups, I have never been anti-any group. It never made sense to me.That does not mean I grew up in an non-prejudicial household. It just means it never made sense to me.

I used to go to Jewish households on their Sabbath and turn on the lights and do other chores they could not do on that day. They would have a purse on the table and I could choose a nickel or a pastry.

If I took the nickel I would have to give it to my mother, if I chose the pastry I could eat it.

I still miss Brooklyn. Good food.
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Old Sep 29, '11, 11:32 pm
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trdchubi trdchubi is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

The root cause of anti-Semitism inside the Church walls is the the idea of Replacement theology or supersessionism. The roots of Replacement Theology and its fruit of anti-Semitism go back to the very beginning of Christianity. This is ironic when you consider the fact that the Church began as a Jewish institution. It was founded in Judea by Jews who were followers of a Jewish Messiah, and all its founding documents were written by Jews. (1) The oldest Christian symbol that has ever been found clearly emphasizes the Jewish origins of Christianity. The symbol is carved into artifacts found in Jerusalem that date back to the First Century.(2) It shows the fish, the symbol of the Church, emerging from Jewish roots, represented by the Menorah and the Star of David. The fish became a symbol for Christians because the word for fish in Greek is icthus, and Christians used the letters of this word, ICTHUS, as an acronym for Iesous, Christos, Theos, Huios, and Soter, meaning Jesus Christ, God’s Son and Savior. But the distinctive Jewish flavor of early Christianity was not to last long. As the Church began to spread beyond Judea, its message was embraced by more and more Gentiles who had no interest in maintaining contact with the Church’s Jewish roots. Even worse, the new Gentile leaders began to turn against the Jews by characterizing them as “Christ killers.” Consider the following examples:

Ignatius of Antioch (ca 50-117 AD) - Taught that those who partake of the Passover are partakers with those who killed Jesus.

Justin Martyr (100-165 AD) - Claimed God’s covenant with Israel was no longer valid and that the Gentiles had replaced the Jews.

Irenaeus (ca 130-202 AD) - Declared the Jews were disinherited from the grace of God.

Tertullian (ca 155-230 AD) - Blamed the Jews for the death of Jesus and argued they had been rejected by God.

Origen (185-254 AD) - He was responsible for much anti-Semitism, all of which was based on his assertion that the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus.

The Council of Elvira (305 AD in Spain) - Prohibited Christians from sharing a meal with a Jew, marrying a Jew, blessing a Jew or observing the Sabbath.

The Council of Nicea (325 AD in Turkey) - Changed the celebration of the Resurrection from the Jewish Feast of First Fruits to Easter in an attempt to disassociate it from Jewish feasts. The Council stated: “For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people ...”

Eusebius (ca 275-339 AD) - Taught that the promises of Scripture were meant for the Gentiles and the curses were meant for the Jews. Asserted that the Church was the “true Israel.”

John Chrysostom (349-407 AD) - Preached a series of sermons against the Jews in which he stated, “The synagogue is not only a brothel and a theater, it is also a den of robbers and lodging place for wild beasts ... Jews are inveterate murderers possessed by the Devil. Their debauchery and drunkenness gives the manners of a pig.” He denied that Jews could ever receive forgiveness. He claimed it was a Christian duty to hate Jews. He claimed that Jews worshiped Satan. And this man was canonized a saint!

Jerome (ca 347-420 AD) - Described the Jews as “... serpents wearing the image of Judas. Their psalms and prayers are the braying of donkeys … They are incapable of understanding Scripture …”

St. Augustine (354-430 AD) - Asserted that the Jews deserved death but were destined to wander the earth to witness the victory of the Church over the synagogue.”Source
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How then can a gentile who knows Christ as Savior not love the Jewish people, a people loved by God, chosen by him for his own glory?

www.catholicsforisrael.com
  #13  
Old Sep 30, '11, 5:37 am
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

And everybody is stupid occasionally. Anti-Jews are everywhere, in and out of church.
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Old Sep 30, '11, 6:41 am
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Michael19682 Michael19682 is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

Would it be anti-semitic to reverse the question and ask: Are Jews Anti-Christian in spirit, or proclamation? I've personally met a handful, and only a handful of many, who have not made statements like "christ is the cause of antisemitism, or christianity is a bastard religion, etc."
My personal belief is that these feelings among jews are highly prevalent. The tension between the two goes back to the origins of our religion--what has happened since then can reasonably be seen as an exacerbation only of these tensions.

The ultimate test is how we are treated personally by the above kind of people. Unfortunately many seem to be of the bent that derogatory statements about christ don't count as offensive because Christianity is a 'made up religion', so therefore its not an offense to anyone, living, but only to a christ who is dead according to their belief.

anti-christian sentiment has become an integral part of the judaism of some.

i'm only expressing my opinion.

incidentally, citing St. Augustine or others of his category in an anti semitic context is not a good sign for the modern writer
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Old Sep 30, '11, 9:26 am
Hail_Linus Hail_Linus is offline
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Default Re: Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trdchubi View Post
The root cause of anti-Semitism inside the Church walls is the the idea of Replacement theology or supersessionism. The roots of Replacement Theology and its fruit of anti-Semitism go back to the very beginning of Christianity. This is ironic when you consider the fact that the Church began as a Jewish institution. It was founded in Judea by Jews who were followers of a Jewish Messiah, and all its founding documents were written by Jews. (1) The oldest Christian symbol that has ever been found clearly emphasizes the Jewish origins of Christianity. The symbol is carved into artifacts found in Jerusalem that date back to the First Century.(2) It shows the fish, the symbol of the Church, emerging from Jewish roots, represented by the Menorah and the Star of David. The fish became a symbol for Christians because the word for fish in Greek is icthus, and Christians used the letters of this word, ICTHUS, as an acronym for Iesous, Christos, Theos, Huios, and Soter, meaning Jesus Christ, God’s Son and Savior. But the distinctive Jewish flavor of early Christianity was not to last long. As the Church began to spread beyond Judea, its message was embraced by more and more Gentiles who had no interest in maintaining contact with the Church’s Jewish roots. Even worse, the new Gentile leaders began to turn against the Jews by characterizing them as “Christ killers.” Consider the following examples:



St. Augustine (354-430 AD) - Asserted that the Jews deserved death but were destined to wander the earth to witness the victory of the Church over the synagogue.”Source

That is not the root cause of anti-semitism. Before I tell you the real root, let me comment on that article you cite.

The quotes do not list the letters these statements are from. They only list books written by other people. They should have mentioned the document for each quote so I can confirm its veracity.

However, you could say it is right about the Council of Elvira and in a sense that is still true today. Practicing Jews also prefer their children marry Jews. No big deal, both sides have their reasons.

The info about council of Nicea is sort of correct but it was Constantine that was angry at the Jews for the reasons stated below. And BTW, the date of Easter was not really changed; it was set to a uniform date (Christians were celebrating Easter on different dates) and Constantine gave his opinion that the chosen date should not coincide the Passover(some Christians were celebrating Easter on what we now call Good Friday).

So as an aside, all Christians today celebrate Easter on the Sunday after Good Friday because of the Council of Nicea. (Oh, Oh! the Protestants celebrate Easter on the Sunday after Good Friday because the Catholic Church said so.)

Now for the true root cause:

1) Shortly after the crucifixion of Jesus the Temple was destroyed as retaliation from the Romans for not only revolting against the Empire but also defeating the Romans in a battle during the revolt.

2) After the Crucifixion of Jesus, the Roman Empire began to collapse, facing similar problems that we are dealing with today.

3) When Constantine took control of the entire Empire he made the observation that only his fourth of the Empire did not persecute the Christians. Neither him nor his father.

4) He came to the conclusion that he was given the entire Empire by the Christian God because he and his father did not persecute the Christians.

5) He eventually came to the conclusion that the Jews and the Romans were punished for the Crucifixion.

6) He believed the Jews had gone crazy after having killed their own God and that is why they revolted.

7) He believed the Roman Empire was collapsing because of its part in the Crucifixion.

8) Constantine then blamed the Jews for the problems of the Roman Empire. He believed they should have recognized their own God and He was angry the Jews had gotten them involved.

As pagans began to come into the Christian Church many harbored this belief. And so that is when people began to blame Jews when things went bad. That is the root of people saying things like "Hey, the economy is bad. It must be the Jews' fault."

Of course we can not say that in fact the Jews and the Romans were punished by God for the crucifixion. But it is true that both did suffer after the Crucifixion. I am also not saying Constantine was correct in what he believed, but the evidence shows that is what he believed.

But the bottom line these anti-semites are just jerks looking to find scapegoats. In the past these types of bad Catholics have become groups like atheistic socialists and then persecute the Catholics in places like Spain, Mexico, Cuba, Poland, Russia, etc.
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