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Oct 18, '11, 5:53 pm
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Banned
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Join Date: April 12, 2009
Posts: 707
Religion: Christian
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
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Originally Posted by St Francis
The problem is that we can't have knee-jerk, feel-good reactions. We have to assess what is happening, and carefully consider the results of what we do. Spending hundreds of billions in a panic to try to fix things is ridiculous. It was dumb the first time in 08, and it's even dumber now that it didn't work before. Definition of insanity and all that...
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Who was prez in 08 when TARP was enacted?
Atleast admit that both our political parties rep and dem have responsibility for this mess.
Clinton allowed China into the WTO, signed the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act, replacing it with Gramm Leach Bliley just prior to Bush jr taking office. He signed NAFTA into law. All these very bad things done by Clinton screwed over millions of American laborers. History will record his treachery against the base of his own party accordingly along with obama signing "free trade" agreements with panama, s korea and columbia.
All those so called "Free Trade" agreements are pure poison for the vast majority of American laborers and their families. The OWS movement knows that fact and will rub obama, bush and clinton's nose in their perfidy in office.
jomoco
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Oct 18, '11, 5:59 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: December 22, 2008
Posts: 6,577
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
Some kind of tax reform in America would be good. Something simpler, and without so many loopholes that companies with expensive accountants can learn how to jump through.
The real problem though is out of control spending. There aren't enough rich in the country that can generate the kind of revenue needed to feed the wild levels of government spending.
Canada had the same problem about a decade ago, where the triple A rating was downgraded too. A few measures were taken to get spending under control, nothing too draconian, maybe not even enough as the baby boomers start retiring and drawing down any of the surplus of the system, but it was enough that Canada is not going through the same thing as America right now.
Oh, and another thing, Alberta and conservative politicians never allowed the Oils Sands to be shut down, like Obama did to the Gulf and greens have done to much of the American oil industry. It makes a big, big difference that Canadians have fought the urge to believe that greatest love of all is for people to lay down their lives for the sake of a tree. A little perspective is in order when it comes to weight the costs and the benefits of these kinds of decisions.
I am pretty sure that the OWS people don't quite get those connections yet.
Maybe they never will. 
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Oct 18, '11, 6:02 pm
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 24,003
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomoco
Who was prez in 08 when TARP was enacted?
Atleast admit that both our political parties rep and dem have responsibility for this mess.
Clinton allowed China into the WTO, signed the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act, replacing it with Gramm Leach Bliley just prior to Bush jr taking office. He signed NAFTA into law. All these very bad things done by Clinton screwed over millions of American laborers. History will record his treachery against the base of his own party accordingly along with obama signing "free trade" agreements with panama, s korea and columbia.
All those so called "Free Trade" agreements are pure poison for the vast majority of American laborers and their families. The OWS movement knows that fact and will rub obama, bush and clinton's nose in their perfidy in office.
jomoco
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Third party?
__________________
Pax,
Robert
Tiber Swim Team - Class of 1990
"If only people would use as much energy in avoiding sin and cultivating virtues as they do in disputing questions, there would not be so much evil in the world, nor bad example given, nor would there be so much laxity in religion!" - Thomas A Kempis (The Imitation of Christ; Bk1, Ch3, Sec4)
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Oct 18, '11, 6:11 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: December 22, 2008
Posts: 6,577
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble...Relief_Program
TARP losses are estimated to be less than the Saving and Loans meltdown in previous years.
Tea Party protests of course were the first to get steamed over these loans even being made. On the other hand, even if it is in general a bad policy to reward poor business practices in a purely capitalistic or Dawininian sense of survival of the fittest, there is an argument to be made that by staving off a financial meltdown of the scale that was threatening in 2008, a cost of 19 billion would be a small price to pay.
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Oct 18, '11, 6:17 pm
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Banned
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Join Date: April 12, 2009
Posts: 707
Religion: Christian
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
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Originally Posted by rlg94086
Third party?
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Absolutely, aqnything would be better than our current or past leadership of the last three decades.
If ron paul could get on board cancelling these toxic "free trade" agreements along with our membership in the WTO, he'd be a shoe in by garnering both rep, dem and independent voters, in my opinion.
jomoco
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Oct 18, '11, 6:29 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: October 11, 2010
Posts: 18,686
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
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Originally Posted by jomoco
Absolutely, aqnything would be better than our current or past leadership of the last three decades.
If ron paul could get on board cancelling these toxic "free trade" agreements along with our membership in the WTO, he'd be a shoe in by garnering both rep, dem and independent voters, in my opinion.
jomoco
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Never. Your man Paul stated out loud and in a public debate that he sees nothing wrong with allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons. He's never going to make it anywhere near the White House, thank God.
__________________
We often like to claim we don't know what God wants when, in reality, we do and we just don't like His answer to our question. -- Mark Hart
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Oct 18, '11, 6:45 pm
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 24,003
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
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Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane
Never. Your man Paul stated out loud and in a public debate that he sees nothing wrong with allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons. He's never going to make it anywhere near the White House, thank God.
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That, and Paul is too smart. He's a Republican and knows a third party run would help elect Obama. Only the most dense and mathematically challenged would fall for that.
__________________
Pax,
Robert
Tiber Swim Team - Class of 1990
"If only people would use as much energy in avoiding sin and cultivating virtues as they do in disputing questions, there would not be so much evil in the world, nor bad example given, nor would there be so much laxity in religion!" - Thomas A Kempis (The Imitation of Christ; Bk1, Ch3, Sec4)
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Oct 18, '11, 6:47 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: October 11, 2010
Posts: 18,686
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
Ron Paul is a pretend Republican. He is a Libertarian, he's always been a Libertarian and he always will be a Libertarian.
__________________
We often like to claim we don't know what God wants when, in reality, we do and we just don't like His answer to our question. -- Mark Hart
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Oct 18, '11, 6:54 pm
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 24,003
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane
Ron Paul is a pretend Republican. He is a Libertarian, he's always been a Libertarian and he always will be a Libertarian.
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If you wish to place a wager on whether or not he will run third party, I'm up for it. He was a Libertarian, but he has been a libertarian (small 'L') Rebublican for years. I welcome his participation in the Republican Party.
__________________
Pax,
Robert
Tiber Swim Team - Class of 1990
"If only people would use as much energy in avoiding sin and cultivating virtues as they do in disputing questions, there would not be so much evil in the world, nor bad example given, nor would there be so much laxity in religion!" - Thomas A Kempis (The Imitation of Christ; Bk1, Ch3, Sec4)
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Oct 18, '11, 7:07 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: August 11, 2004
Posts: 7,626
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
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Originally Posted by jomoco
Who was prez in 08 when TARP was enacted?
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That's why I pointed that that's the one I was talking about.
Quote:
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Atleast admit that both our political parties rep and dem have responsibility for this mess.
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Sure.
Quote:
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...The OWS movement knows that fact and will rub obama, bush and clinton's nose in their perfidy in office.
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The OWS protesters are angry. But they are disoriented: they are incoherent and have no goal. All they are doing Is throwing a temper tantrum, feeling the power of their anger and thinking they are accomplishing something. That's the better of them. They are a malliable mob waiting for any leader to catch them.
I have seen this before, as have those of us who are my age and older. We saw the undisciplined mobs "sitting in" in universities and other places. We saw riots incited by demagogues.
This is not a good path to follow. The OWS mobs do no have anything good to offer.
jomoco[/quote]
__________________
Men demanded that purely spiritual matters… be… "proved" [in] physical terms[, then] began to perceive that each order of life had evidence proper to itself… To demand physical proof for every article of belief was as fantastic as to demand… mathematical proof for the love of a mother for her child.
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Oct 18, '11, 7:14 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: January 16, 2010
Posts: 1,860
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
OWS is against bank bailouts, but in favor of college loan bailouts. Tea Party is against bail outs which are related to irresponsibility without prejudice, unlike OWS.
__________________
"Colonize" the weak into a voting bloc by tempting them into dependency with liberal behaviors, then pass unpopular policies and force Conformity to them.
The US interpretation of Liberalism is false because the dependents aren't Free and neither are the taxpayers.
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Oct 18, '11, 7:45 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: October 11, 2010
Posts: 18,686
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlg94086
If you wish to place a wager on whether or not he will run third party, I'm up for it. He was a Libertarian, but he has been a libertarian (small 'L') Rebublican for years. I welcome his participation in the Republican Party.
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Just your saying so does not make it so. His supporters know that he's still a Big L Libertarian or they wouldn't vote for him (legalized drugs, de-funding Israel). I do not gamble, thank you kindly.
__________________
We often like to claim we don't know what God wants when, in reality, we do and we just don't like His answer to our question. -- Mark Hart
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Oct 18, '11, 8:15 pm
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 24,003
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane
Just your saying so does not make it so. His supporters know that he's still a Big L Libertarian or they wouldn't vote for him (legalized drugs, de-funding Israel). I do not gamble, thank you kindly.
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Obviously, you aren't comprehending the distinction. A "Big L" Libertarian is a member of the Libertarian Party and runs for office as a Libertarian. A libertarian Republican holds libertarian ideals but is a Republican. There are classical conservatives, moderates, "neo"-conservatives (though that term gets misused a lot) and libertarian Republicans.
Based on what I've heard from Ron Paul, he is libertarian at the federal level, but more of a classical conservative at the state level. There's nothing wrong with that. Even though I don't agree with him on everything, there are many, many issues on the federal level that I like. He is a original intent Constitutionalist. Most Republicans lean that way.
__________________
Pax,
Robert
Tiber Swim Team - Class of 1990
"If only people would use as much energy in avoiding sin and cultivating virtues as they do in disputing questions, there would not be so much evil in the world, nor bad example given, nor would there be so much laxity in religion!" - Thomas A Kempis (The Imitation of Christ; Bk1, Ch3, Sec4)
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Oct 18, '11, 8:27 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: October 11, 2010
Posts: 18,686
Religion: Roman Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlg94086
Obviously, you aren't comprehending the distinction. A "Big L" Libertarian is a member of the Libertarian Party and runs for office as a Libertarian. A libertarian Republican holds libertarian ideals but is a Republican. There are classical conservatives, moderates, "neo"-conservatives (though that term gets misused a lot) and libertarian Republicans.
Based on what I've heard from Ron Paul, he is libertarian at the federal level, but more of a classical conservative at the state level. There's nothing wrong with that. Even though I don't agree with him on everything, there are many, many issues on the federal level that I like. He is a original intent Constitutionalist. Most Republicans lean that way.
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I am comprehending perfectly well thank you. I know what you believe and you know what I believe and shall we leave it there? Dr. Paul has not changed his beliefs over the years although he has done some shape-shifting in order to pretend better so he can run as a Republican. His followers have not changed either, although he does pick up some of the younger generation when they find out he's the drug-legalizing guy. This is OT for the thread so I will stop there.
__________________
We often like to claim we don't know what God wants when, in reality, we do and we just don't like His answer to our question. -- Mark Hart
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Oct 18, '11, 8:41 pm
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Forum Elder
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Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 24,003
Religion: Catholic
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Re: Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane
I am comprehending perfectly well thank you. I know what you believe and you know what I believe and shall we leave it there? Dr. Paul has not changed his beliefs over the years although he has done some shape-shifting in order to pretend better so he can run as a Republican. His followers have not changed either, although he does pick up some of the younger generation when they find out he's the drug-legalizing guy. This is OT for the thread so I will stop there.
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Well, though the fact that it was OT wasn't important enough for you to stop prior to that post, I will let you have the last word. I can recognize when someone has given up. 
__________________
Pax,
Robert
Tiber Swim Team - Class of 1990
"If only people would use as much energy in avoiding sin and cultivating virtues as they do in disputing questions, there would not be so much evil in the world, nor bad example given, nor would there be so much laxity in religion!" - Thomas A Kempis (The Imitation of Christ; Bk1, Ch3, Sec4)
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