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  #1  
Old Oct 16, '11, 1:54 am
Sam20045 Sam20045 is offline
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Default The United Kingdom and Catholicism

Would it ever happen....that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland...with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office... e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?
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  #2  
Old Oct 16, '11, 2:08 am
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YoungTradCath YoungTradCath is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

And have the pope himself crown the monarchs.
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  #3  
Old Oct 16, '11, 2:15 am
Sam20045 Sam20045 is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

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Originally Posted by YoungTradCath View Post
And have the pope himself crown the monarchs.
That would be great...

But The Monarch must I believe appoint the Archbishop of Canterbury with the approval of The Pope.
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  #4  
Old Oct 16, '11, 2:18 am
Sam20045 Sam20045 is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

Or even instill the Doctrine of the Divine Right of Kings...that The Monarch is ordained by God as Sovereign and ruler of their nation.

Have the Monarch be a faithful Catholic that attends Sunday Mass and frequent Confession and Eucharstic Adoration and attends Holy Days of Obligation and also observes moral theology who acknowledges the Supremacy of The Pope as the Sucessor of St Peter who is Bishop of Rome and Vicar of Christ holding universal jurisdiction over the Church and its believerers...the Body of Christ...

And give the title of Most Catholic King/Queen

And allow white to be worn in the presence by a Queen Regnant or Consort.
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  #5  
Old Oct 16, '11, 3:25 am
Pfaffenhoffen Pfaffenhoffen is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

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Originally Posted by Sam20045 View Post
Would it ever happen....that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland...with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

Could it ever be so?

I hope not. It is a nightmare ! Christ is the Winner, He does not need all that pomp !
I tell you the story I have mentioned here before.
I was years ago in London, in Camden Town. We were searching for a Sunday Mass and saw a beautiful Gothic Church that said that the Mass would be in 10 minutes. Before us there was that limping old lady, who entered the church and was met by a man and a woman, the only people in the church. She asked whether it was a Catholic Church and the man said no she sighed and said that Go was the same and she was tired and she would not move from there. As a foreigner I as shy and though I understood the answer I asked whether there was a Catholic Mass, please, sorry, and the man told me where to go, more a dozen of sorries for not being High Anglican Church (HAC) member (which I discovered then) and the man was polite, no problem and off I went leaving the HAC with a limping Catholic lady to attend the ceremony. In a few strides I found an horrible looking Catholic Church of dubious taste crowded with people who sang at full lungs, prayed, went to communion and I was mystified. I thought England was the place of Protestants and Anglicans and I was dumfounded.

Later on I visited Westminster Abbey which was transformed from a beautiful Gothic Church into a museum of Kings and Queens and whatsoever, you cannot move around without finding a tomb. And had the privilege of going to mass at Westminster Cathedral, of...believe it or not ... byzantine Style. I have attended masses all over Europe: Madrid, Paris, Rome, Wien, Cologne, Zurich, Lisbon, Berlin, Munich. I was moved and My waife moved to tears at the beauty of this mass. thwe whole crowd sang at full lungs, and in one hymn, so beautiful it was, that the organist stepped into the pedal and the whole Cathedral echoed so strongly that an old lady in front of me looked back to see what was happening to the organist: I knew it, hewas moved too. I will never forget the strength of British Catholics and their devotion in the church, their going into communion, their singing, their prayers.

So, I would leave the King and Queen, and the house of the Lords the ones who are there. for Catholics, these perks are cumbersome. We had a Catholic King, Henry the VIII, and look what happened. I would continue to rely on what the British Catholics rely on: Jesus Christ.

As for splendor and magnificence, I will keep the British Masses. If you go to London, you may miss the Big Ben and the Tower of London, the British Museum and Tate Gallery. Don't miss mass at Westminster Cathedral (leave something for it is still incomplete) or even if it is of dubious architecture, mass in any other Church.
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  #6  
Old Oct 16, '11, 3:52 am
Hokomai Hokomai is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

The idea of a Catholic established Church was tried for a number of centuries in England/Wales and Scotland, and it did not turn out all that well. It would be hard to get a consensus around the burning people thing for example. Also I think you will find that the C of E is the established Church for England and Wales only. You would have the issue of the Scots to sort out also and they can be less than accepting of this sort of thing, with their numerous strands of Presbyterianism. Ireland took up with the Catholic Church in gaining independence, but from recent reports that has not been quite as successful as hoped, either. There is also the problem of replacing the current royals with those who descend from the deposed Catholics of the House of Stuart. Somehow I think free, democratic and secular has a nice ring to it.
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  #7  
Old Oct 16, '11, 3:59 am
Acapiteadcalcem Acapiteadcalcem is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam20045 View Post
Would it ever happen....that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland...with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office... e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?
I don't think so. With the way things are over here for the Church at the present, we're more likely to end up in the Colosseum than Westminster Abbey.
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  #8  
Old Oct 16, '11, 4:19 am
Santi2 Santi2 is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam20045 View Post
Would it ever happen....that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland...with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office... e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?

No. It will never happen because politicians play a role in disestablishment. And, judging by their effort to de-spiritualise Parliament, why would they want to replace Ecclesial Law Lords who bow whichever way the wind blows?

Were it not for the anonymous letter in 1605...
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  #9  
Old Oct 16, '11, 4:20 am
twinc twinc is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acapiteadcalcem View Post
I don't think so. With the way things are over here for the Church at the present, we're more likely to end up in the Colosseum than Westminster Abbey.

what concerns me even more is the question is that in the case of war as in the last one would one's loyalty be to religion or King and/or Country - this was a not so well appreciated problem with Italy siding with the Germans and the allies bombing monte carlo and then probably the Vatican etc and now most countries are multi racial and multi cultural etc - twinc
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  #10  
Old Oct 16, '11, 4:27 am
Santi2 Santi2 is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfaffenhoffen View Post

Don't miss mass at Westminster Cathedral
and London Brompton Oratory.
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and Blessed is the Fruit of Thy womb, JESUS
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  #11  
Old Oct 16, '11, 4:46 am
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam20045 View Post
Would it ever happen....that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland...with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office... e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?
Why do you think anyone here is able to answer such a question?
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  #12  
Old Oct 16, '11, 4:58 am
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Sherry G Sherry G is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

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Originally Posted by thistle View Post
Why do you think anyone here is able to answer such a question?
More of a musing than a question, I'd say!
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  #13  
Old Oct 16, '11, 5:04 am
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Netty1 Netty1 is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam20045 View Post
That would be great...

But The Monarch must I believe appoint the Archbishop of Canterbury with the approval of The Pope.
This is incorrect!

Since the English Reformation, the Church of England is a state church and the choice of the Archbishop of Canterbury is legally that of the British crown. In recent times the choice is made in the name of the Sovereign by the Prime Minister, from a shortlist selected by the Crown Nominations Commission.

The Pope has zero to do with who is Archbishop of Canterbury.
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  #14  
Old Oct 16, '11, 5:14 am
twinc twinc is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

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Originally Posted by twinc View Post
what concerns me even more is the question is that in the case of war as in the last one would one's loyalty be to religion or King and/or Country - this was a not so well appreciated problem with Italy siding with the Germans and the allies bombing monte carlo and then probably the Vatican etc and now most countries are multi racial and multi cultural etc - twinc

correction - multi religious and multi cultural - a bit like muslims being sent to fight in Iraq,Afghanistan etc or a fifth column behind the lines etc - twinc
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  #15  
Old Oct 16, '11, 5:21 am
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: The United Kingdom and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam20045 View Post
Would it ever happen....that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland...with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office... e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?
You'd have a better chance setting up the Catholic Church as the official church of the United States, IMO. Except for some pockets, Britain seems to be dead set in stone on mandating English in all liturgies and women in ministry inter alia. As I've mentioned before, I'm email friends with a female woman pastor there (Little Paxton, to be specific) who works on a voluntary basis and is quite passionate with her prayers and sermons, with some of them being quite good. Are all these ministries going to evaporate? I don't think so.

Furthermore, I just can't see the Anglicans giving back all the properties which Henry VIII confiscated without some "compensation." Not in the near future anyway.
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