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  #1  
Old Oct 20, '11, 11:15 am
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Chuck1 Chuck1 is offline
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Question Statue Mary and church ?

Hi I was wondering why do most catholic churches have a statue of mary near the enterence ? And then a massive curfix by the alter ?
Thanks for your help
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  #2  
Old Oct 20, '11, 11:56 am
ConstantineTG ConstantineTG is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

Maybe because most churches are dedicated to the Virgin Mary?

Most churches I know have the statue of the patron saint by the entrance. And of course about half or more are dedicated to the Virgin Mary, like St. Mary's, Our Lady of ____, etc.
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  #3  
Old Oct 20, '11, 12:48 pm
RyanK RyanK is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck1 View Post
Hi I was wondering why do most catholic churches have a statue of mary near the enterence ? And then a massive curfix by the alter ?
Thanks for your help
Well, the whole idea of the Mass is that we're witnessing what took place at our Lord's Passion that explains the crucifix. Now the reason for the statue of Mary at the entrance is that 1.) She was present at our Lord's Sorrowful Passion. 2.) She us the Mother of us all. 3.) Being the Mother of Jesus, she is the ultimate intercessor, thus we should do all things through and with her.
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  #4  
Old Oct 20, '11, 12:59 pm
Mike30 Mike30 is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

All Latin Rite Churches are required by the rubrics to have a crucifix in the Sanctuary area.

As to the Blessed Mother,we have extremely strong devotion to her. She occupies a
prominent place in the theology of the Church and is not just another person.Overall, there are significantly more titles, feasts and Marian veneration practices among Roman Catholics than in any other Christian tradition.

She is in a nutshell adored, venerated,respected and loved by hundreds of millions.

She was miraculously conceived without sin by the Holy Ghost and remained a virgin throughout her life. She is known as the Immaculate Conception. She was assumed bodily into Heaven and of all there except the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost is our strongest protector and intercessor.

Besides all that and much more importantly she was chosen to be the Mother of our Lord Jesus

I think a statue is warranted
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  #5  
Old Oct 20, '11, 1:08 pm
Marian Devotee Marian Devotee is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

Just to clarify, we Catholics venerate and are very devoted to Our Blessed Mother, but she is NOT adored. Latria worship is given to God alone.
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  #6  
Old Oct 20, '11, 1:28 pm
dcana dcana is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike30 View Post
All Latin Rite Churches are required by the rubrics to have a crucifix in the Sanctuary area.

As to the Blessed Mother,we have extremely strong devotion to her. She occupies a
prominent place in the theology of the Church and is not just another person.Overall, there are significantly more titles, feasts and Marian veneration practices among Roman Catholics than in any other Christian tradition.

She is in a nutshell adored, venerated,respected and loved by hundreds of millions.

She was miraculously conceived without sin by the Holy Ghost and remained a virgin throughout her life. She is known as the Immaculate Conception. She was assumed bodily into Heaven and of all there except the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost is our strongest protector and intercessor.

Besides all that and much more importantly she was chosen to be the Mother of our Lord Jesus

I think a statue is warranted
Yes, but the Blessed Mother isn't adored. "Adoration" can mean different things but it usually means "worship" and as such should not be used in reference to Mary.

Why? Because they're beautiful and they remind us of the persons whose images we see. Why else?

The question that should be asked, especially in reference to the Crucifix, and I'm not being flippant here, is "Why are there no Crucifixes in Protestant churches?" When it comes down to it, about 500 years ago Jesus was removed from the Crucifix because it was too "Catholic." Just as Mormons subsequently removed the Holy Cross from their places of worship because they are too "Christian." Isn't the Cross itself a "graven image?" Let's see, it's made out of wood, so it is "graven," and is a representation of something "in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." It is the representation of something "in the earth beneath," namely, the two pieces of wood on which they nailed Jesus at the Crucifixion. According to God's Word, "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, ..."
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  #7  
Old Oct 20, '11, 1:30 pm
dcana dcana is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

Sorry, Marian, you posted while I was writing my post.
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  #8  
Old Oct 20, '11, 1:39 pm
dcana dcana is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

If anyone can explain to me how the Cross is not a graven image that is a representation of something else, thereby rendering the making of one or the buying or displaying of one a violation of one the 10 Commandments (using the logic of some Christians, anyway) I'll gladly retract my comment.
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  #9  
Old Oct 20, '11, 2:34 pm
cheese puff cheese puff is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcana View Post
Yes, but the Blessed Mother isn't adored. "Adoration" can mean different things but it usually means "worship" and as such should not be used in reference to Mary.

Why? Because they're beautiful and they remind us of the persons whose images we see. Why else?

The question that should be asked, especially in reference to the Crucifix, and I'm not being flippant here, is "Why are there no Crucifixes in Protestant churches?" When it comes down to it, about 500 years ago Jesus was removed from the Crucifix because it was too "Catholic." Just as Mormons subsequently removed the Holy Cross from their places of worship because they are too "Christian." Isn't the Cross itself a "graven image?" Let's see, it's made out of wood, so it is "graven," and is a representation of something "in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." It is the representation of something "in the earth beneath," namely, the two pieces of wood on which they nailed Jesus at the Crucifixion. According to God's Word, "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, ..."
and to finish that last bit... "you shall not bow down to them or serve them"

Well, we (Catholics) ... don't, so the crucifix ISN'T a graven image
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  #10  
Old Oct 20, '11, 3:31 pm
TimothyH TimothyH is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck1 View Post
Hi I was wondering why do most catholic churches have a statue of mary near the enterence ? And then a massive curfix by the alter ?
Thanks for your help
Mary is the Mediatrix of all Grace.

All grace comes to us through Mary. Every conversion of every sinner and every salvation, won for us by Jesus on the cross, comes to us individually and personally, through the hands of Mary.

Why would we not put a statue up?

The statue of Mary in the Church I attend is on the left side of the sanctuary. The statue of her Son is on the right side of he sanctuary. We have a life size statue of St. Catherine of Siena by the entrance.


-Tim-
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  #11  
Old Oct 20, '11, 3:33 pm
paperwight66 paperwight66 is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike30 View Post
.

She was miraculously conceived without sin by the Holy Ghost

I

I'm sure you don't mean this the way it sounds, but in case there is anyone reading this and is confused, it must be clarified.

We do NOT believe that Mary was 'miraculously conceived without sin by the Holy Ghost'.

Mary was conceived in the normal way by the normal process used by her parents.

She was preserved from sin by the action of the Holy Ghost - is that what you meant? But she was not miraculously conceived. She had a father and a mother.
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  #12  
Old Oct 20, '11, 8:05 pm
thistle thistle is online now
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike30 View Post
All Latin Rite Churches are required by the rubrics to have a crucifix in the Sanctuary area.

As to the Blessed Mother,we have extremely strong devotion to her. She occupies a
prominent place in the theology of the Church and is not just another person.Overall, there are significantly more titles, feasts and Marian veneration practices among Roman Catholics than in any other Christian tradition.

She is in a nutshell adored, venerated,respected and loved by hundreds of millions.

She was miraculously conceived without sin by the Holy Ghost and remained a virgin throughout her life. She is known as the Immaculate Conception. She was assumed bodily into Heaven and of all there except the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost is our strongest protector and intercessor.

Besides all that and much more importantly she was chosen to be the Mother of our Lord Jesus

I think a statue is warranted
Is that correct?

GIRM 308: "There is also to be a cross, with the figure of Christ crucified upon it, either on the altar or near it, where it is clearly visible to the assembled congregation. It is appropriate that such across, which calls to mind for the faithful the saving Passion of the Lord, remain near the altar even outside of liturgical celebrations."


Near the altar does not necessarily mean in the sanctuary area.
The Crucifix in our Church was suspended from the ceiling, not over the sanctuary area but pretty close.
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  #13  
Old Oct 20, '11, 8:19 pm
dcana dcana is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese puff View Post
and to finish that last bit... "you shall not bow down to them or serve them"

Well, we (Catholics) ... don't, so the crucifix ISN'T a graven image
Of course we don't. Re-read my post. "Graven" does not mean "evil" it simply means "carved." Both a cross and a crucifix are "graven" images and I'm pretty sure anybody who is concerned with this Commandment would not limit "graven" images just to those carved out of wood, but made out of any material, whether carved or formed in some other fashion. After the giving of the commandments, the Israelites made a golden calf and worshiped it. You don't carve gold, you melt it and pour it into a form. I don't see either how something painted, drawn, or printed would be any different than a statue. It is a representation of something "in heaven or on earth or in the seas." What difference does it make if it is in two dimensions or makes use of all three dimensions? It could still be worshiped just the same. I honestly don't know the relative proportion of Protestants who believe that the making of images is in itself sinful versus those who read the verse in context and see that what is actually prohibited is the making of images with the purpose of worshiping them. I would think that the former group is much larger than the second. If the former are serious about the following of the Word of God as they understand it, then they should have a big problem with pretty much all art, except for modern, "amorphous" art, especially sculpture, lladro figurines, dolls, model trucks, pictures of people, figurines of angels, artificial plants, etc. Obviously, I could go on all night with things we make that are representations of "things on earth or in heaven or in the seas."

But the saner ones realize that the prohibition is against worship of these things, which become, by definition, idols. It must be kept in mind what was going on 4,000 years ago. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob chose a people to whom He would reveal Himself in a world that was completely pagan and polytheistic, as it had been for thousands of years, was for thousands of years after that, and still is today among many peoples of the world. The revelation that there is One God was completely "revolutionary" and unexpected. All the nations around them, the Egyptians, Babylonians, Amalekites, Greeks, Phoenicians, and so on, and the Israelites themselves, were polytheistic and worshiped idols. There was the ever-present danger that they would succumb to the temptation to begin to worship these false gods of the peoples in whose midst they were living, hence the need for a Commandment against making idols and worshiping them as if they were God, which the Israelites violated time and time and time again. The idea that there was only One God was just so "out there." This is also why there were the strict laws against mixing with the Gentiles, given in order to make them a people "set apart" - because of this very real danger.

What the pagans at that time were doing, and what the Israelites themselves did from time to time, was to make figures in the form of a bull, goat, or whatever, and actually think they were God (or gods), bowing down before them in adoration: "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!" If you would ask an Ammonite, for example, what they were doing, they would tell you, "We are worshiping the god Moloch." And we would have no reason to doubt them. Most Protestants know that we believe (and consequently, they believe) in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the One True God, who dwells in Heaven. Yet when we say, "We do not worship statues," their response is "yes you are." Some say that, anyway, the ones who this thread are referring to. In other words, they do not believe us. I don't understand how it is they could even imagine that we think that a figure made out of plaster could be God, as the pagans of 4,000 years ago did, but apparently, many do.

Statues are beautiful and they remind us of the persons represented. Just like the giant Abraham Lincoln in his memorial. Though I'm not sure how "beautiful" it is - he wasn't a particularly handsome man. I can't think of a better way to ponder the love of the Sacred Heart of Jesus than to see a picture or statue of Him pointing lovingly at it. I personally have a great fascination and appreciation for icons and iconography. I'd like to take a course on iconography someday. It's fascinating to study the meaning behind the various figures, colors, and symbols. I found out a while ago that the apostles are often pictured wearing blue garments with a red tunic on the outside, because the red represents the fact that they have been "clothed" with the Divinity of Christ, as Paul talks about, which covers their humanity, symbolized by the color blue. Whereas Jesus is represented wearing red garments with a blue tunic, the red symbolizing His Divine nature which is hidden underneath, so to speak, our humanity which He took on at the Incarnation.
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  #14  
Old Oct 21, '11, 12:28 am
cheese puff cheese puff is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

I understood your post.
The last bit I finished for you, about not worshiping or serving, that is the bit that is the point of God's commandment.
Otherwise, why would God himself have ordered man produce "graven images"? I'm referring to the Arc of the Covenant, you know, the Cheribums. Last I checked they reside in Heaven.
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  #15  
Old Oct 21, '11, 12:36 am
BernadetteM BernadetteM is offline
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Default Re: Statue Mary and church ?

If you take that commandment literly out of context, then we must also not have ceramic angels, fishes, dogs or figures of humans. I have seen these images in many protestant Christian homes.

There also can be no photographs of love ones. I do believe that many years ago some Orthodox Jews would not allow their pictures taken.

It is difficult to understand how some can say it is okay for one to have the above statues, images etc., but it is wrong to have statues in a church.

From all the posts on many websites it appears that many protestants take what they choose from the Bible out of context and ignore the true meaning of the words.

I wonder what they do at Christmas time when sending cards. I would assume they are blank, except for the message. What extreme lengths some go to, to prove the Catholic Church is wrong.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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