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  #1  
Old Oct 24, '11, 6:08 am
searching04 searching04 is offline
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Default Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

Someone explain to me why the Catholic church is effectively calling for a new world order. This is insane. Are church leaders really that naive to believe that this would not lead to the control of billions of peoples' lives? That this would actually lead to some economic parity? This is truly one more way to drive people away from the church. I'm all for helping the poor; I am not for redistributing wealth via the UN, which is already corrupt and worthless. We can be charitable without the government - a one world government especially - controlling how that is done. The government is why we are in the economic mess, not Wall Street or the banks.

People should be provided the opportunity to succeed, not the same ends as everyone else. If it is food and water and clothes and all else that is needed to live a dignified and humane life, than fine. But a world economic body to be sure that happens to control economic parity? No way.


http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/vat...0/24/id/415466
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  #2  
Old Oct 24, '11, 7:06 am
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JharekCarnelian JharekCarnelian is online now
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

This is a one page or so brief news report. I would want to read the document itself to ascertain what was actually said, which cynicism leads me to believe may well be a great deal more nuanced than what is been reported. Especially given that site's political slant.
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  #3  
Old Oct 24, '11, 7:35 am
Lisa4Catholics Lisa4Catholics is offline
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Exclamation Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

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Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian View Post
This is a one page or so brief news report. I would want to read the document itself to ascertain what was actually said, which cynicism leads me to believe may well be a great deal more nuanced than what is been reported. Especially given that site's political slant.
The other sites are reporting this that way as well, on Hannity's forum they are already saying the Vatican is trying to start Revelations up and setting the stage for the antichrist. I do not know why they would even attempt to entrust a world bank or an overseer of any economy much less the world, it is not like they have proven themselves trustworthy. Furthermore, they are mostly secular.
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Old Oct 24, '11, 7:37 am
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

I suspect the document is as I said more nuanced, also Hannity and the site the OP's link directs us to are American sites and thus concerned with American political outlooks. I have found here that American Catholics are often bemused that we non-American Catholics automatically do not walk in lockstep with them on all political issues.

I agree a world-wide banking authority would have as much potential to be a disaster as the present 'controls', I do agree with the Church though when it says that the free market and pursuit of profit has at times become a terrible idol.
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  #5  
Old Oct 24, '11, 7:41 am
Lisa4Catholics Lisa4Catholics is offline
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

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Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian View Post
I suspect the document is as I said more nuanced, also Hannity and the site the OP's link directs us to are American sites and thus concerned with American political outlooks. I have found here that American Catholics are often bemused that we non-American Catholics automatically do not walk in lockstep with them on all political issues.

I agree a world-wide banking authority would have as much potential to be a disaster as the present 'controls', I do agree with the Church though when it says that the free market and pursuit of profit has at times become a terrible idol.
Well Freemarket has not had much of a chance the financiers buy political power to run others out of business that is not free but a rigged market, and that would be the same globally so in effect we would be global slaves at the whim of global bankers.
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  #6  
Old Oct 24, '11, 7:43 am
BartBurk BartBurk is offline
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

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Originally Posted by searching04 View Post
Someone explain to me why the Catholic church is effectively calling for a new world order. This is insane. Are church leaders really that naive to believe that this would not lead to the control of billions of peoples' lives? That this would actually lead to some economic parity? This is truly one more way to drive people away from the church. I'm all for helping the poor; I am not for redistributing wealth via the UN, which is already corrupt and worthless. We can be charitable without the government - a one world government especially - controlling how that is done. The government is why we are in the economic mess, not Wall Street or the banks.

People should be provided the opportunity to succeed, not the same ends as everyone else. If it is food and water and clothes and all else that is needed to live a dignified and humane life, than fine. But a world economic body to be sure that happens to control economic parity? No way.


http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/vat...0/24/id/415466
As a relatively new Catholic this is very scary that the Vatican would be calling for this. We have enough trouble with the Federal Reserve. We don't need a One World Governnment supported by the Vatican. It seems to me the entire idea contradicts the idea of subsidiarity where local governments run things, not the other way around.
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Old Oct 24, '11, 7:47 am
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

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Originally Posted by Lisa4Catholics View Post
Well Freemarket has not had much of a chance the financiers buy political power to run others out of business that is not free but a rigged market, and that would be the same globally so in effect we would be global slaves at the whim of global bankers.
What makes you think we are not already in this situation you put forward? We are for the most part here economic slaves here regardless of our countries of origin. How severe our slavery is differs of course.
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  #8  
Old Oct 24, '11, 7:49 am
Lisa4Catholics Lisa4Catholics is offline
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

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Originally Posted by BartBurk View Post
As a relatively new Catholic this is very scary that the Vatican would be calling for this. We have enough trouble with the Federal Reserve. We don't need a One World Governnment supported by the Vatican. It seems to me the entire idea contradicts the idea of subsidiarity where local governments run things, not the other way around.
It does indeed contradict subsidiarity. We need a priest in here ASAP to explain this really quick.
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  #9  
Old Oct 24, '11, 7:51 am
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

Or we could read the document of course and see what is actually been said rather than relying on right wing blogs and news sites etc.
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  #10  
Old Oct 24, '11, 8:00 am
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

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Originally Posted by Lisa4Catholics View Post
It does indeed contradict subsidiarity. We need a priest in here ASAP to explain this really quick.
It does NOT contradict the concept of subsidiarity. Please read the article and notice we are talking about a global economic authority (not a global government to establish laws and rights) which, if you were using the concept of subsidiarity, would imply that a global authority is the lowest level that an effective control can be maintained.

Subsidiarity does not mean that everything is given to the people, but to the lowest level that appropriate control can be maintained. Looking at our situation now, it is clear that the "federal" level is insufficient for good of the world, thus there is a need to elevate the level. It does not say that there will be no lower level controls or that "federal" control will be absent, just that there needs to be a world economy that is not based around one country and on one currency.

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  #11  
Old Oct 24, '11, 8:03 am
MisterCorduroy MisterCorduroy is offline
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

The full text from Vatican Radio http://www.oecumene.radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=531752

Keep in mind that this is a "reflection" on the current financial crisis by a Cardinal, not a Papal encyclical. It is not the official view of the Vatican, but one man's musings. I usually like what Cardinal Turkson has to say--I hear he is on the short list for future Pope. Being a bishop from the third world, who was a refugee for a while, he has a different perspective. We in America also forget that these statements are made for the whole world, not just us. Many times Rome is oblivious to how things will play in the USA. The meltdown in Greece is much closer to home and probably more on his mind than Wall Street.

Talk of world government and regulation seems to go against the Church teaching on subsidiarity. But then, maybe this crisis is too big to be handled on a local level and is becoming dire enough to have a global watchdog.

Meanwhile, the media will get the Evangelical dispensationalists all worked up and Pat Robertson will probably call us the "Whore of Babylon" on TV within the next 3 days.

It will be interesting to hear what Raymond Arroyo, Al Kresta or the Acton Institute will do to spin this for us "right-leaning" Catholics. Then there's Hannity and Laura Ingraham, who will certainly be trying to figure out what their Church is trying to say.
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  #12  
Old Oct 24, '11, 8:03 am
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michelleds michelleds is offline
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

full text from the Vatican

and it looks as scary to me after reading the full text! i look forward to this discussion.

http://www.news.va/en/news/full-text...rom-the-pontif
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  #13  
Old Oct 24, '11, 8:09 am
Lisa4Catholics Lisa4Catholics is offline
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Exclamation Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterCorduroy View Post
The full text from Vatican Radio http://www.oecumene.radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=531752

Keep in mind that this is a "reflection" on the current financial crisis by a Cardinal, not a Papal encyclical. It is not the official view of the Vatican, but one man's musings. I usually like what Cardinal Turkson has to say--I hear he is on the short list for future Pope. Being a bishop from the third world, who was a refugee for a while, he has a different perspective. We in America also forget that these statements are made for the whole world, not just us. Many times Rome is oblivious to how things will play in the USA. The meltdown in Greece is much closer to home and probably more on his mind than Wall Street.

Talk of world government and regulation seems to go against the Church teaching on subsidiarity. But then, maybe this crisis is too big to be handled on a local level and is becoming dire enough to have a global watchdog.

Meanwhile, the media will get the Evangelical dispensationalists all worked up and Pat Robertson will probably call us the "Whore of Babylon" on TV within the next 3 days.

It will be interesting to hear what Raymond Arroyo, Al Kresta or the Acton Institute will do to spin this for us "right-leaning" Catholics. Then there's Hannity and Laura Ingraham, who will certainly be trying to figure out what their Church is trying to say.
If it is an official document there is not much to spin , the UN can not be trusted and the whole concept is like a horror flick.
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  #14  
Old Oct 24, '11, 8:11 am
BartBurk BartBurk is offline
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

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Originally Posted by Lisa4Catholics View Post
If it is an official document there is not much to spin , the UN can not be trusted and the whole concept is like a horror flick.
It's actually like something straight out of a Chick publications pamphlet. This will turn a lot of Catholics off.
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  #15  
Old Oct 24, '11, 8:14 am
Lisa4Catholics Lisa4Catholics is offline
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Default Re: Vatican Calls for Global Authority on Economy

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It's actually like something straight out of a Chick publications pamphlet. This will turn a lot of Catholics off.
I would be interested in one of the mods or priests that work with the site to hear their take, I am disturbed and I am not the only one I am sure.
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