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  #61  
Old Nov 9, '11, 4:53 pm
Cal Fullerton Cal Fullerton is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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Originally Posted by PRmerger View Post
Ok. But if you were one of the Apostles and you were told by another Apostle, "I felt His Spirit come upon me" vs "I actually touched Him! We became ONE together!" which one do you think you would choose?
I believe that if the Spirit (Christ) comes upon you and stays in you—whether it's during communion or any other time—you are one with him—to the extent that your actions are controlled by the Spirit.

"Now the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17). Explain that verse to me! Nobody claims to know as you Catholic brothers do what the word is is. (I hope I don't sound like Bill Clinton.)
  #62  
Old Nov 9, '11, 5:00 pm
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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I believe that if the Spirit (Christ) comes upon you and stays in you—whether it's during communion or any other time—you are one with him—to the extent that your actions are controlled by the Spirit.
Yep, except that we leak.
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  #63  
Old Nov 10, '11, 8:20 pm
Cal Fullerton Cal Fullerton is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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Originally Posted by PRmerger View Post
Yep, except that we leak.
Yes, we leak.
I noticed you didn't answer my question. Must be I made a good point. (Actually, I had asked the Lord to tell me what to say, and some time later that verse saying "the Lord is the Spirit" popped into my mind. Maybe that was the Lord because it stumped you.
  #64  
Old Nov 10, '11, 8:28 pm
Cal Fullerton Cal Fullerton is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

I was rereading something Linda Marie had said, and she may have answered my question. She said, "Each Species of the Eucharist is God, whole and entire. In receiving the Body, we also receive the Blood and vice versa. God is One."
  #65  
Old Nov 10, '11, 8:43 pm
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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Yes, we leak.
I noticed you didn't answer my question. Must be I made a good point. (Actually, I had asked the Lord to tell me what to say, and some time later that verse saying "the Lord is the Spirit" popped into my mind. Maybe that was the Lord because it stumped you.
Sorry, I missed the question. (Actually, it wasn't a question--did you notice that there was no question mark in your post?)

Anyway, if you want me to "explain" that verse: 2 Cor 3:17 I will, but I'm not sure what you're asking for. Could you please elaborate?
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  #66  
Old Nov 11, '11, 7:20 am
Cal Fullerton Cal Fullerton is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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Sorry, I missed the question. (Actually, it wasn't a question--did you notice that there was no question mark in your post?)
Wiseguy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRmerger View Post
Anyway, if you want me to "explain" that verse: 2 Cor 3:17 I will, but I'm not sure what you're asking for. Could you please elaborate?
If "the Lord IS the Spirit," (emphasis mine) how can one say that when Jesus comes into or replaces the bread that that is more than the Spirit coming in? When I had asked, "Is it the Holy Spirit that comes into the bread?," you and at least one other person said that it's not just the Spirit that comes into/replaces the bread & wine, but it's more than that—it's Christ himself. You've been implying that Christ has something in him—other than his body—that the Spirit doesn't have. If that's the case, how can 2 Cor. 3:17 say "the Lord is the Spirit"? [note the question mark ]

And if you say the word "is" doesn't literally mean "is" in 2 Cor. 3:17, then why can't I say the word "is" means "represents" where Jesus talks about communion?

Have fun, my friend.
  #67  
Old Nov 11, '11, 7:37 am
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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Originally Posted by Cal Fullerton View Post
Wiseguy.



If "the Lord IS the Spirit," (emphasis mine) how can one say that when Jesus comes into or replaces the bread that that is more than the Spirit coming in? When I had asked, "Is it the Holy Spirit that comes into the bread?," you and at least one other person said that it's not just the Spirit that comes into/replaces the bread & wine, but it's more than that—it's Christ himself. You've been implying that Christ has something in him—other than his body—that the Spirit doesn't have. If that's the case, how can 2 Cor. 3:17 say "the Lord is the Spirit"? [note the question mark ]

And if you say the word "is" doesn't literally mean "is" in 2 Cor. 3:17, then why can't I say the word "is" means "represents" where Jesus talks about communion?

Have fun, my friend.
Ah, very good, then.

Because the verse in Corinthians doesn't say "the Lord is ONLY the Spirit", and we know that Jesus was flesh and blood, as well as Spirit, we can put 2 and 2 together and understand that when the Lord becomes the Bread/Wine he is there in spirit as well as in the flesh, sacramentally.
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  #68  
Old Nov 12, '11, 7:31 am
Cal Fullerton Cal Fullerton is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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Ah, very good, then.

Because the verse in Corinthians doesn't say "the Lord is ONLY the Spirit", and we know that Jesus was flesh and blood, as well as Spirit, we can put 2 and 2 together and understand that when the Lord becomes the Bread/Wine he is there in spirit as well as in the flesh, sacramentally.
I didn't follow that but anyway, I'll wave a peace flag.

Have a great day, PR. We shore up the spirit of thankfulness in our hearts as we approach Thanksgiving. We have a wonderful God to thank!
  #69  
Old Nov 12, '11, 2:08 pm
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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I didn't follow that but anyway, I'll wave a peace flag.

Have a great day, PR. We shore up the spirit of thankfulness in our hearts as we approach Thanksgiving. We have a wonderful God to thank!
Aw, gee. I was really enjoying this discourse.

Anyway, right back at cha, Cal!
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  #70  
Old Nov 12, '11, 5:01 pm
Philthy Philthy is offline
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Default Re: Do you have to believe Marian dogma to be a good Catholic?

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Originally Posted by Linda Marie View Post
As jmcrae said, I was referring to Him being laid in a manger for a bed. A manger is a feeding trough. He was always intended to be the food of Life for us.
Jesus, who is the bread of life, was born in a manger (same root as "mangia" which, in Italian means to eat - "mangia!" in the town of Bethlehem. And what does Bethlehem mean? House of Bread. So the bread of life was born in the house of bread and placed into a feeding trough. It seems pretty straight forward...

Back to John 6
The Apostles were all at this exchange. Jesus said, "I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.” The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?”, and ultimately left being dissatisfied with the answer that Christ gave. They were not willing to trust him beyond what they understood. His Apostles were no less confused, but they had not placed their understanding above their trust in the Lord (cf Prov 3:5-6). And so when asked by our Lord, “Do you also want to leave?” , Simon Peter answered him - expressing the fact that they trusted Him above everything, including their earthly understanding, said: , “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.” Their faith in him transcended their inability to understand all that he told them. And there is an important lesson in this for all of us.
Christ did eventually answer this question for them, but it was much later - much like answers to prayer, which often come much later than we wish to receive them. "While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body. Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins. "
In the Acts of the Apostles we find that the faithful were "devoted ...to the breaking of the bread" (cf 2:42). This breaking of bread is placed on par with "prayer" and the "teaching of the Apostles".
In Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians we learn that Christ revealed to Paul the events of the Last Supper and Paul has some interesting things to say..."Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord...For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself."
There is also one last confirmation of this difficult teaching which comes from one of St John's (ie the one who penned John 6) disciples. Ignatius of Antioch - a canonized Saint and Martyr (eaten by lions) of the faith - on his way to certain death tells his Smyrnean flock:"consider those who are of a different opinion with respect to the grace of Christ which has come unto us, how opposed they are to the will of God. They have no regard for love, no care for the widow, or the orphan, or the oppressed; of the bond, or of the free; of the hungry, or of the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again."
When one considers all the evidence - and this is not even close to all of it - in Scripture, in the ECFs, in the miracles, and other sources it is not so hard to see that the Eucharist is not merely a remembrance and not merely a Spiritual presence indistinguishable from those gathered in prayer. It is, and always has been uniquely different.

Blessings!
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It is truly right and just, our duty and our salvation, always and everywhere to give you thanks, Lord, holy Father, almighty and eternal God, through Christ our Lord.
  #71  
Old Nov 13, '11, 4:25 am
wisdomseeker wisdomseeker is offline
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Default Re: Do you have to believe Marian dogma to be a good Catholic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philthy View Post
Jesus, who is the bread of life, was born in a manger (same root as "mangia" which, in Italian means to eat - "mangia!" in the town of Bethlehem. And what does Bethlehem mean? House of Bread. So the bread of life was born in the house of bread and placed into a feeding trough. It seems pretty straight forward...

Back to John 6
The Apostles were all at this exchange. Jesus said, "I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.” The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?”, and ultimately left being dissatisfied with the answer that Christ gave. They were not willing to trust him beyond what they understood. His Apostles were no less confused, but they had not placed their understanding above their trust in the Lord (cf Prov 3:5-6). And so when asked by our Lord, “Do you also want to leave?” , Simon Peter answered him - expressing the fact that they trusted Him above everything, including their earthly understanding, said: , “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.” Their faith in him transcended their inability to understand all that he told them. And there is an important lesson in this for all of us.
Christ did eventually answer this question for them, but it was much later - much like answers to prayer, which often come much later than we wish to receive them. "While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body. Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins. "
In the Acts of the Apostles we find that the faithful were "devoted ...to the breaking of the bread" (cf 2:42). This breaking of bread is placed on par with "prayer" and the "teaching of the Apostles".
In Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians we learn that Christ revealed to Paul the events of the Last Supper and Paul has some interesting things to say..."Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord...For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself."
There is also one last confirmation of this difficult teaching which comes from one of St John's (ie the one who penned John 6) disciples. Ignatius of Antioch - a canonized Saint and Martyr (eaten by lions) of the faith - on his way to certain death tells his Smyrnean flock:"consider those who are of a different opinion with respect to the grace of Christ which has come unto us, how opposed they are to the will of God. They have no regard for love, no care for the widow, or the orphan, or the oppressed; of the bond, or of the free; of the hungry, or of the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again."
When one considers all the evidence - and this is not even close to all of it - in Scripture, in the ECFs, in the miracles, and other sources it is not so hard to see that the Eucharist is not merely a remembrance and not merely a Spiritual presence indistinguishable from those gathered in prayer. It is, and always has been uniquely different.

Blessings!

Yeah and it is no different today, many stay away from teh Church because they dont believe it.
  #72  
Old Nov 13, '11, 6:44 am
Cal Fullerton Cal Fullerton is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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Aw, gee. I was really enjoying this discourse.
I enjoy blogging too. . . . OK, then, more questions. . . .

Do Catholics think about what Jesus did on the cross for them when they drink the cup and eat the bread? If not, what do they think about? Anything in particular?
  #73  
Old Nov 13, '11, 6:55 am
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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Originally Posted by Cal Fullerton View Post
I enjoy blogging too. . . . OK, then, more questions. . . .

Do Catholics think about what Jesus did on the cross for them when they drink the cup and eat the bread? If not, what do they think about? Anything in particular?
Firstly, it is not bread.

I can't answer what Catholics think about, Cal.

Of course, if you think about it, you can see why I can't answer what others think, especially during such an intimate moment between us and The Beloved.

Just as I wouldn't presume to ask a married couple what they think about when they are enjoying the marital embrace.

And that (the marital embrace) is the icon (or that which points to) the union between God and man.

As far as what I think about when I receive communion, well, that's private and oh so intimate as well.

Sorry.

Another question?
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  #74  
Old Nov 13, '11, 7:25 am
wisdomseeker wisdomseeker is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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Originally Posted by Cal Fullerton View Post
I enjoy blogging too. . . . OK, then, more questions. . . .

Do Catholics think about what Jesus did on the cross for them when they drink the cup and eat the bread? If not, what do they think about? Anything in particular?


Think? No we dont think, we know. that is why we have Crucifixes in alll Catholic Churches throughout the world. it is a reminder of what He did for His people. Remember, the CC teaches that we are the people of God.

we have the statues of the Apostles as a reminder of what they did. They begin the Church that we have today. we Catholics have many simbols and Sacred things as a reminder of God. we do the sign of the Cross as a reminder of our Baptism commanded by Christ and the reafirmation that we know of the Trinity.

The Eucharist as a reminder of the Covenant with His people. this is done daily from east to west a new Sacrifice is offered to God with insense.
do you need more?
  #75  
Old Nov 13, '11, 11:17 am
Cal Fullerton Cal Fullerton is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

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Originally Posted by PRmerger View Post
As far as what I think about when I receive communion, well, that's private and oh so intimate as well.
What I meant was, "Does the priest suggest that you think about anything in particular?"

If I remember correctly, our pastor suggests—sometimes at least—that we think about what Jesus did for us on the cross.
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