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  #1  
Old Oct 26, '11, 3:14 pm
fakename fakename is offline
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Default what sin is this?

When one touches oneself for sexual pleasure w/o masturbation?
When one touches a part of the body for non-sex pleasure (eye rubbing or chest rubbing)?
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  #2  
Old Oct 26, '11, 4:11 pm
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Ladygem Ladygem is offline
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Default Re: what sin is this?

the second one isn't a sin. Not sure if the first one counts as a separate sin from masturbation, it's the act, the fantasies don't have too much to do with it from a moral standpoint.
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  #3  
Old Oct 26, '11, 4:41 pm
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Trishie Trishie is offline
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Default Re: what sin is this?

The innocence of one is obvious unless a person intends otherwise.

The other:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139 From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

...In other words, intentional masturbation is sinful
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  #4  
Old Oct 26, '11, 4:58 pm
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Aelred Minor Aelred Minor is offline
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Default Re: what sin is this?

Number one is masturbation at least if the genitals are involved, and even if it's a different erogenous zone in my judgment it would be essentially the same sin.

I wouldn't be as quick to automatically assume number two is definitely unsinful since things like massage can be undertaken in an entirely selfish way that could be a venial sin (in some cases it could also lead to sexual temptations), but certainly these things are not intrinsically evil, and are just a natural part of human life in the case of things like rubbing one's eyes.
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  #5  
Old Oct 26, '11, 6:50 pm
fakename fakename is offline
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Default Re: what sin is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelred Minor View Post
Number one is masturbation at least if the genitals are involved, and even if it's a different erogenous zone in my judgment it would be essentially the same sin.

I wouldn't be as quick to automatically assume number two is definitely unsinful since things like massage can be undertaken in an entirely selfish way that could be a venial sin (in some cases it could also lead to sexual temptations), but certainly these things are not intrinsically evil, and are just a natural part of human life in the case of things like rubbing one's eyes.
but I thought masturbation="spilling one's seed".
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  #6  
Old Oct 26, '11, 6:57 pm
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Aelred Minor Aelred Minor is offline
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Default Re: what sin is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fakename View Post
but I thought masturbation="spilling one's seed".
No. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church states masturbation is "the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure." (Source: Trishie's post above, confirmed by my memory)
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  #7  
Old Oct 26, '11, 7:00 pm
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Oneofthewomen Oneofthewomen is offline
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Default Re: what sin is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fakename View Post
but I thought masturbation="spilling one's seed".
Masturbation is pleasuring one's self sexually.
By your definition, women would never be guilty of this sin.
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  #8  
Old Oct 26, '11, 7:56 pm
fakename fakename is offline
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Default Re: what sin is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelred Minor View Post
No. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church states masturbation is "the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure." (Source: Trishie's post above, confirmed by my memory)
Okay, now what sin is "spilling ones seed"?
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  #9  
Old Oct 26, '11, 11:40 pm
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Aelred Minor Aelred Minor is offline
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Default Re: what sin is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fakename View Post
Okay, now what sin is "spilling ones seed"?
That's a specific thing that can happen in masturbation or in certain forms of contraception.
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  #10  
Old Oct 26, '11, 11:51 pm
onmyknees onmyknees is offline
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Default Re: what sin is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladygem View Post
the second one isn't a sin. Not sure if the first one counts as a separate sin from masturbation, it's the act, the fantasies don't have too much to do with it from a moral standpoint.

Like others have said the first is masturbation because he is touching the genitals for sexual pleasure. And yes, sexual fantasies could be a sin from a moral standpoint depending on who they are fantasizing about.
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