Views on Mormonism?

[zaffiroborant]

Originally Posted by ParkerD

mwok,

I understand that there exists the belief that God cannot do what He said He could do and would do, but that is part of the territory we are in--to not believe Him, but it's not a voice I try to listen to.

Peace.

No one here holds that belief.

[jediliz]

Misguided individuals who believe that Joseph Smith, who dabbled in free masonry, "restored" the original christian church. And supposedly received a bunch of gold plates that contained a new testament of Jesus on them.

They believe the church went into apostasy for what, 1600 years? That doesn't make sense...its clear that Christ would never abandon his Church. That's why he appointed a leader. That's why the apostles needed SUCCESSORS.

Also, not sure if its still a belief, but think they can become gods of their own planets. And again, not sure if they still believe it, but I read that they Believe that Mary conceived Jesus the "old fashioned way" but that may have changed. (God came down and had sex with Mary is what I read!)

Believe that jesus and satan are brothers. Now this part is DEFINITELY bad! satan is a fallen angel. Jesus is GOD!!


I have asked time and time again What was the EXACT year of the so called apostasy...but no one can give me an answer other than "after the last apostle died". Sorry, but there were still Christians for hundreds of years following their deaths and the apostles themselves had followers that were appointed bishops, etc. All but one apostle was martyred. John was the only one that died naturally. probably because he was writing the Book of Revelation.

Jesus would never abandon his Church!

[blueadept]

Originally Posted by PaulDupre

The only reason Mormons associate with "gentiles" in any way is to convert them. I'm sure your LDS wife assumed that you would convert to Mormonism. When you did not, she dumped you. That is how Mormons deal with non-Mormons. If a Mormon befriends you, it is only because she wants to convert you. Once she realizes you will not convert, she will drop you like a hot rock. There is no such thing as a "Mormon friend". There is only a Mormon who has targeted you for conversion.

The technique is known officially as "friendshipping" - making friends with someone to lure them into the LDS church.

Among young Mormons, it is known as "date' em and dunk 'em". If you will not convert, the Mormon will move on to the next prospect. If you convert, the Mormon will move on to the next prospect.

Hi-ho.

While I don't care for your 'bad spin' on this, I'm fairly positive my wife will be sure WHEN she remarries that her new hubby IS dunked prior to getting married while I continue to honor my marriage vows regardless of her actions.

Obviously one is right and the other one is wrong on this issue as we both continue to follow Christ in our lives.

[Marie5890]

Originally Posted by meltzerboy

I read on another thread in this Forum that Mormon baptism is not regarded as valid in Catholicism because Mormonism does not believe in the Trinity in the traditional way, which is based on three non-separate persons. Is that correct?

Meltzerboy,

Yes that is correct. They don't believe in the Trinity.
They believe in three separate god of what they call the god head.

The Father ---whom they identify as Elohim of the OT is an exalted and perfected man whom achieve godhood. They see him as the literal spirit father of all human beings (and yes they believe there is a/are heavenly mother(s) , as well as all the angels, which they believe are not a complete and different kind of species

They also believe that the fallen angels are those spirit children who rebelled against the father's plan and followed Lucifer...whom is also one of the father's spirit children and hence a brother to all of us as well as Jesus. So when you hear that Mormons believe that Satan and Jesus are spirit brothers, this is what they are referring to. In terms of spirit brothers and sisters, we are all considered spirit offspring of the father, which includes Jesus and Satan.


They teach what is known as the "Plan of Salvation". In the pre-existance there was a war in heaven with the spirit children. The father asked "whom shall I send". Lucifer (Satan) said "send me and I will make sure not one (human being) is lost.(ie he would deny them free will and force them to obey)." He went on to say "surely I will do this so give me the glory".

Jesus, the oldest of all of the Father's spirit children (whom they claim is Jehovah of the OT and was his premortal name) stood up and said." Send me and all the glory be thine"

So the rest of the spirit children (you, me, all who have ever lived, all who will live etc) chose sides between these two of brothers (so yes they believe that Satan is also our spirit brother as well). Those who followed Jehovah are those who have come to earth (or will yet come) and attained a body.

Those who chose to follow Lucifer became the fallen angels. (they use the phrase, "did not keep their first estate"....and are denied bodies for all eternity.

Then there is the Holy Ghost....A spirit brother of all of us who has yet to get his mortal body.

So you see, that is why their baptism is not seen as valid. They have a completely different view of God at the very core. It is this reason that many claim they are not Christian. Because of their view of what they deem is the real nature of the "god head"

[truthsave]

To whoever wants to know more about mormonism this is the best thing I can say: don't search in mormon site, don't search in anti mormon site. Nevertheless any neutral site would be more or less anti mormon since the historical and scientific evidence of their believs is difficult to support.

would say look at the fruits. Not the average fruits, but the best fruits. Best mormons can be educated people, sometimes arrogant in their beliefs as each one of us, clean, social, with strong family and social value.

Look at their prophets lives, starting from Joseph Smith, to the latest, that should be their best fruits, then compare with some Christian Saints as St. Francis, St. Seraphim, St. Antony the Great, St. Therese of Liseux just to say few. (Catholics or Orthodox doesn't really matter).
Then you will realize you have a good example of humanity (for mormon prophets) and this with something more, something that is not material, something...something that if you are not just a critic is easy to feel and see in the lives of Christians Saints.

I have converted to Christianity few years ago and I felt it. Maybe you will fell it too.
Talking about different way of seeing things is just... a good menthal sport.

[bz5]

I think the Mormons are pretty fascinating. The ones I know are generally very nice and sincere, share many of our moral teachings, and it's great that they promote a culture that gets all those young men out there as missionaries. Imagine if we did the same!

However, they're not just a social club. They are teaching about God, and it's important to know what's true. Though they use many words from the Bible and church history, they often have very different meanings. Their theology is fairly detailed, though when you point things out to them that are unBiblical or completely illogical (and there's SO MUCH that is) they will always fall back to "Well, that must be one of the places where the Bible is mistranslated," or they'll trust gut "feelings" over logic (as if their feelings that their religion is right must be correct while everyone's else's deep convictions and feelings aren't?)

As someone pointed out, history is not their friend. You could go back and forth forever with them on theological points, but it all falls apart at the great apostasy. If Christ's church did not, in fact, all but disappear in the first century or soon after, if the first church was not Mormon, then there was nothing to restore! History is clear: the first church was Catholic, and the only argument against that is a huge conspiracy theory.

Again, they are often truly nice people with a focus on family, and if they're trying to convert you, they are probably very sincere. If you are not knowledgeable about your own faith, do not engage them. They get converts among people searching for stability, love, a moral life, not by starting out with "Would you like to be a god of your own planet?" or some of their other more bizarre beliefs.

[mtolympus]

Originally Posted by blueadept

While I don't care for your 'bad spin' on this, I'm fairly positive my wife will be sure WHEN she remarries that her new hubby IS dunked prior to getting married while I continue to honor my marriage vows regardless of her actions.

Obviously one is right and the other one is wrong on this issue as we both continue to follow Christ in our lives.

I am sure much of your experience being married to an LDS wife was very painful, yet you show no bitterness. You also seem to give a very fair assesment of your understanding of LDS teachings. In my opinion, you are a true Christian in every sense of the word.

[blueadept]

Originally Posted by mtolympus

I am sure much of your experience being married to an LDS wife was very painful, yet you show no bitterness. You also seem to give a very fair assesment of your understanding of LDS teachings.

The only painful part (besides the ending) for us was blending the two families and dealing with all of the different personalities as well as combining parenting styles. That was honestly painful. We were respectful of each other's faiths and encouraged each other. While I encouraged her to go to the Temple as often as she could, I know it was painful for her to listen to all the talks in her meetings about all the blessings that are received in the Temple. I sort of mark the beginning to the end of my marriage when she was estatic in finally finishing the Temple work for her Catholic grandfather that she loved very much but she got angry with me when I asked her not to share that type of info with me. Oh my, that didn't go over well even though I tried to explain that I truly understood that her grandfather could reject or accept the Temple work done for him. Oh my. All you can do is to move on.

In my opinion, you are a true Christian in every sense of the word.

Thanks for the kind thought.

[JonNC]

Originally Posted by Jaypeeto4

Both Mormons and Protestants, when they do use crosses, prefer to use
empty crosses and not crucifixes, to thus emphasize the resurrection instead.
Love,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

Just a correction, Lutherans often use/wear crucifixes.

Carry on.

Jon

[mtolympus]

Originally Posted by walnutleviosa

I cannot wrap my mind around some of their beliefs. Comments?

Do you mean what we really believe? Or are you referring to more sensational or speculative items which are usually emphasied in non-LDS writtings.

Originally Posted by Heuchler

If you look at the teachings of Joseph Smith you can see that a lot of his beliefs don't match up well with the Bible and are crazy when compared to mainstream christianity.

It is hard to answer a charge that is so general. Let me know what you believe using the Bible and I will try to explain what we believe on the same subject also using the Bible.

[Heuchler]

Originally Posted by mtolympus

It is hard to answer a charge that is so general. Let me know what you believe using the Bible and I will try to explain what we believe on the same subject also using the Bible.

Matthew 1

Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost.

and Young said

"Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).

Luke 1

34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon you and the power of the Most High shall overshadow you.

Joseph Smith said,

"The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended with any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit," (Religious Truths Defined, p. 44, as cited in the book, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, P.O. Box 1884, Salt Lake City, Utah 84110, bookstore at 1358 South West Temple, 1982, p. 260).

Colossians 1:16‑17

For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Joseph Smith said,

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).

John 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without it him nothing was made that has been made

The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129)

.(This implies that there was a time when Christ wasn't around, a long time if you take into account that God the father was also a creation, where the first says that Christ was around since the beginning and nothing at all was created without Christ.)

[mwok]

Originally Posted by ParkerD

mwok,

I understand that there exists the belief that God cannot do what He said He could do and would do, but that is part of the territory we are in--to not believe Him, but it's not a voice I try to listen to.

Peace.

God never said we would be Gods. When I think of that part of Mormon doctrine it makes me think of Pinochio where he is changed into a real boy like his "father" by the blue fairy as a reward for behaving well.

[Tony888]

Originally Posted by mwok

God never said we would be Gods. When I think of that part of Mormon doctrine it makes me think of Pinochio where he is changed into a real boy like his "father" by the blue fairy as a reward for behaving well.

Thats odd, I had a similar image when I read the Catechism on RCC theosis, a long time age.

[andrewstx]

Originally Posted by walnutleviosa

I cannot wrap my mind around some of their beliefs. Comments?

It is very difficult to pin down Mormon's beliefs for they are a continally changing. As has been pointed out they beleive in "contuing revelation". What has been taught for years could easily be abandoned tomorow.

I'tsike starting over with each new "prophet, revelator, and seer".

[mwok]

Originally Posted by Tony888

Thats odd, I had a similar image when I read the Catechism on RCC theosis, a long time age.

hmmm, are you going to bring up CCC paragraph 460 again?

Because I think we established that what the Catholic Church says about theosis and what you say about theosis are not one and the same.