Which Vehicle to Purchase?

[grasscutter]

You probably won't want one, but I love my scooter (49cc). Cheap gas, cheap insurance and it can do 75 kmh on a flat road. However, it's not practical for transporting children, purchasing large items, etc.

[irishpatrick]

Originally Posted by SamH

Ford borrowed money from the Federal Reserve, not the federal government and has since paid most of it back. They did not declare bankruptcy nor did they have the government buy a substantial portion of the company - at a tremendous cost to the US taxpayers.


The Federal Reserve and the Federal Government are two different entities.

That is not what it says at the link I posted. Also, the Fed is led by a Board of Governors whose seven members are appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. The Fed gets its authority from Congress and is subject to oversight by the same.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/fed...ank-ownership/

[SamH]

Originally Posted by irishpatrick

That is not what it says at the link I posted.

Your "source" in the link doesn't know that the Federal Reserve and the Federal Government are two different entities.

Originally Posted by irishpatrick

That is not what it says at the link I posted. Also, the Fed is led by a Board of Governors whose seven members are appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. The Fed gets its authority from Congress and is subject to oversight by the same.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/fed...ank-ownership/

The Fed does get its operating authority from congress, but that does not make it taxpayer funded. Read your fact check link.

[irishpatrick]

Originally Posted by SamH

Your "source" in the link doesn't know that the Federal Reserve and the Federal Government are two different entities.




The Fed does get its operating authority from congress, but that does not make it taxpayer funded. Read your fact check link.

I understand, however, a question: who appoints the Fed board?

[SamH]

Originally Posted by irishpatrick

I understand, however, a question: who appoints the Fed board?

The Federal Reserve is independent within government in that "its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government." Its authority is derived from statutes enacted by the U.S. Congress and the System is subject to congressional oversight. The members of the Board of Governors, including its chairman and vice-chairman, are chosen by the President and confirmed by Congress.


True power of the organization rests with the Federal Open Market Committee. The committee is charged under United States law with overseeing the nation's open market operations. It is the Federal Reserve committee that makes key decisions about interest rates and the growth of the United States money supply. The committee is made up of twelve voting members: the seven members of the Federal Reserve Board and five of the twelve Federal Reserve Bank presidents.

[irishpatrick]

Originally Posted by SamH

The Federal Reserve is independent within government in that "its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government." Its authority is derived from statutes enacted by the U.S. Congress and the System is subject to congressional oversight. The members of the Board of Governors, including its chairman and vice-chairman, are chosen by the President and confirmed by Congress.


True power of the organization rests with the Federal Open Market Committee. The committee is charged under United States law with overseeing the nation's open market operations. It is the Federal Reserve committee that makes key decisions about interest rates and the growth of the United States money supply. The committee is made up of twelve voting members: the seven members of the Federal Reserve Board and five of the twelve Federal Reserve Bank presidents.

That is exactly how I understood it as well. In today's highly charged political climate, it would be hard for me to believe that the President has NO power to use regarding the Fed (considering he appoints the Board of Governors, including the Chairman and Vie-Chairman.

Ford borrowed billions from the Fed in order to insure they could make it through the crisis. They did not take direct bailout money, as did GM and Chrslyer, but it is well known that Ford supported the bailouts and benefited from them. My point is, Ford is far from being hands-off in that situation...so it is very difficult to give Ford a leg-up on the others.

[SamH]

Originally Posted by irishpatrick

Ford borrowed billions from the Fed in order to insure they could make it through the crisis. They did not take direct bailout money, as did GM and Chrslyer, but it is well known that Ford supported the bailouts and benefited from them. My point is, Ford is far from being hands-off in that situation...so it is very difficult to give Ford a leg-up on the others.

So not receiving federal money is the same as receiving federal money?

There is flaw in that logic.


The fact that the Federal reserve is beholding to the president does mean that it operates with federal money. The fact that Ford didn't cost the taxpayers billions in dollars is something that they are proud of. When Ford made a small reference to that fact in a commercial the Obama administration was quick to remind Ford that they operate at the pleasure of the federal government - as Boeing has learned.

[irishpatrick]

Originally Posted by SamH

So not receiving federal money is the same as receiving federal money?

There is flaw in that logic.


The fact that the Federal reserve is beholding to the president does mean that it operates with federal money. The fact that Ford didn't cost the taxpayers billions in dollars is something that they are proud of. When Ford made a small reference to that fact in a commercial the Obama administration was quick to remind Ford that they operate at the pleasure of the federal government - as Boeing has learned.

I disagree with your assessment, yet I feel we shall not agree. Ford both supported the bailout, and took money from the Fed (with Govenors chosen by the President). While it is not the same as GM and Chrysler, it was Ford take a drink from a similar trough. Those loans were essentially federal aide.

[Irishmom2]

If and when we buy a new car, it will probably be a Ford. You can word it however you want, and feel however you want, but in the end, Ford did NOT do what the other companies did. And for that, we will be returning customers. (Current Hyundai, Toyota and Buick owners.)

[SamH]

Originally Posted by Irishmom2

If and when we buy a new car, it will probably be a Ford. You can word it however you want, and feel however you want, but in the end, Ford did NOT do what the other companies did. And for that, we will be returning customers. (Current Hyundai, Toyota and Buick owners.)

I had been a Ford owner for years as was my entire family. My problem is the local dealer is horrible. The last new Ford I owned was a Freestyle, the three years I owned it I had over 37 trips to the dealer's shop for warranty items. The problem is I only had 8 warranty items that needed repair - every item took 3 to 5 trips to repair.

The transmission (CVT) on that vehicle can only be serviced at Ford. The dealership had the car 3 days and botched the job - I had to return a month later with leaks from the half shaft they took out. I was charged to fix their mistake on that too - normal transmission fluid replacement and filter ended up running me well over $800 (should have been less than $400). I traded it for KIA Sedona and haven't looked back. 60,000 miles later its been to the dealer for one warranty item. I'll still buy Fords but I'll never buy a new/newer one covered by a warranty until the local dealship changes management. The problem is i've had similar experiences with the Ford dealer in the town I lived in previously.

My next new vehicle will probably be a Hyundai Sonata.

[irishpatrick]

Originally Posted by Irishmom2

If and when we buy a new car, it will probably be a Ford. You can word it however you want, and feel however you want, but in the end, Ford did NOT do what the other companies did. And for that, we will be returning customers. (Current Hyundai, Toyota and Buick owners.)

Good for you, and may your choice work well for you.

I do not see a lot of difference between what Ford did, and what the others did. Please see this link:

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/09/for...n-on-bailouts/

[irishpatrick]

Originally Posted by SamH

I had been a Ford owner for years as was my entire family. My problem is the local dealer is horrible. The last new Ford I owned was a Freestyle, the three years I owned it I had over 37 trips to the dealer's shop for warranty items. The problem is I only had 8 warranty items that needed repair - every item took 3 to 5 trips to repair.

The transmission (CVT) on that vehicle can only be serviced at Ford. The dealership had the car 3 days and botched the job - I had to return a month later with leaks from the half shaft they took out. I was charged to fix their mistake on that too - normal transmission fluid replacement and filter ended up running me well over $800 (should have been less than $400). I traded it for KIA Sedona and haven't looked back. 60,000 miles later its been to the dealer for one warranty item. I'll still buy Fords but I'll never buy a new/newer one covered by a warranty until the local dealship changes management. The problem is i've had similar experiences with the Ford dealer in the town I lived in previously.

My next new vehicle will probably be a Hyundai Sonata.

What you cite here also complicated my decision. I have Ford on my list, yet I am not convinced their quality or service has improved, and frankly I just don't see a huge difference in what they did during the crisis (no point in arguing that any longer).

I have similar feelings about GM, Chrysler and Jeep products. The new Jeep line is attractive, but they did take the direct bailout, and their quality has not been good.

It is just a terrible situation for a discerning American to be in...

[SamH]

Originally Posted by irishpatrick

What you cite here also complicated my decision. I have Ford on my list, yet I am not convinced their quality or service has improved, and frankly I just don't see a huge difference in what they did during the crisis (no point in arguing that any longer).

I have similar feelings about GM, Chrysler and Jeep products. The new Jeep line is attractive, but they did take the direct bailout, and their quality has not been good.

It is just a terrible situation for a discerning American to be in...

The intial quality is not bad, and my wife and I both liked the car - the issues it had were fairly minor. It was the service after the sale (or lack of) the has soured us on ever considering a Ford again. Those minor issues can be a huge pain when you have to swap cars, car seats and hitch rides to and from the dealer and home because they don't fix it, fix it on time, or even pull it in the garage. To be honest anyone that's done much work with that dealer is well aware of how terrible their service department is. My own company used to drive Ford F150s as fleet vehicles - they switched to Chevy in 1996 after ongoing issues getting things covered by warranty. I didn't think a single vehicle would be that big of an issue - I learned differently. The company considered switching back but my own personal experience with them prevented that.

I would check out your local dealer via word of mouth. Surely not all of them can be as bad as the last two I dealt with.

[irishpatrick]

Originally Posted by SamH

The intial quality is not bad, and my wife and I both liked the car - the issues it had were fairly minor. It was the service after the sale (or lack of) the has soured us on ever considering a Ford again. Those minor issues can be a huge pain when you have to swap cars, car seats and hitch rides to and from the dealer and home because they don't fix it, fix it on time, or even pull it in the garage. To be honest anyone that's done much work with that dealer is well aware of how terrible their service department is. My own company used to drive Ford F150s as fleet vehicles - they switched to Chevy in 1996 after ongoing issues getting things covered by warranty. I didn't think a single vehicle would be that big of an issue - I learned differently. The company considered switching back but my own personal experience with them prevented that.

I would check out your local dealer via word of mouth. Surely not all of them can be as bad as the last two I dealt with.

It is a shame that you experienced those troubles. Ford needs to support its product 100%.

[chrisatam]

hi if u're so confused just use the public transport system