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  #316  
Old Jan 26, '12, 12:14 pm
danonwaveland danonwaveland is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Dawn,

Glad to hear you and the carrot-eaters were protected. Prayer is powerful!

God bless,
Dan
  #317  
Old Jan 26, '12, 12:40 pm
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

This is an amplified form:

Has it been made clear that the apocalypse now moves from the beast and false prophet's deception to persecution, the mark. The first phase in apoclaypse 13, a metaphor for any age in which the fall reigns supreme in a society, is that the society is deceived that it can totally ignore God's truth and law, escape all consequences, and then nevertheless secure all prosperity and peace purely through materialistic grandeur. That has happened many times in Salvation history:

Noah's day: we can be wicked, and there will be no flood.

Babel, we can build a material utopia without God.

Egypt: we can use God's People to build a material grandeur and we will get away with it

Before the Exile: we, the Jews, can ignore the Mosaic Law and keep living idolatry and sin, and there will be no exile into Babylon.

Pagan Rome: we have the great universal material utopia, and we are our own gods, not Christ.

And today, the last generation: we can build a secular utopia from materialistic progress and science and ignore all religion, even the natural law, and we will prosper without any consequences.

But the second phase of apocalypse is the mark: forcing people of faith to embrace any and all aspects of this lie or suffer persecution. In pagan Rome, it was worship the Emperor or die. In the OT Maccabbees, it was worship Antiochus and desecrate the Temple with pagan idols, or die.

In communism, it was deny your faith or be tortured and killed [still is]

Well now, we don't have martyrdom yet, but the persecution is beginning:

The USA govt is now attempting to force all employers to provide health care that will include artificial birth control, sterilization, and abortion inducing drugs, or face consequences. This is like any other time we are forced to take a mark in salvation history: Do that which is wrong with your "right hand", or suffer persecution.

The archbishop of Portland has issued a letter to all the faithful in our diocese, calling on us to act to protect our religious freedom.

Let us pray that we and all persons of good will may be spared a persecution, but if it be God's will, may our sufferings help restore faith, as the Exile converted the Jews back to God in the restoration!

Note, Pope Paul VI prophesied the later consequences of the acceptance of artificial birth control in society: The moral decay, fornication, hedonism, same sex actions, bestiality. Later, it will be abortion as a right. Later, FORCED abortion, contraception, and sterilization. It is already fulfilled in China for decades, and we are next. Let us pray that prayer and fasting and conversion can save us from this in the West! Kyrie Eleison, Christe Eleison!
  #318  
Old Jan 26, '12, 6:18 pm
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DawnInTexas DawnInTexas is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Quote:
Originally Posted by spauline View Post
This is an amplified form:

Has it been made clear that the apocalypse now moves from the beast and false prophet's deception to persecution, the mark. The first phase in apoclaypse 13, a metaphor for any age in which the fall reigns supreme in a society, is that the society is deceived that it can totally ignore God's truth and law, escape all consequences, and then nevertheless secure all prosperity and peace purely through materialistic grandeur. That has happened many times in Salvation history:

Noah's day: we can be wicked, and there will be no flood.

Babel, we can build a material utopia without God.

Egypt: we can use God's People to build a material grandeur and we will get away with it

Before the Exile: we, the Jews, can ignore the Mosaic Law and keep living idolatry and sin, and there will be no exile into Babylon.

Pagan Rome: we have the great universal material utopia, and we are our own gods, not Christ.

And today, the last generation: we can build a secular utopia from materialistic progress and science and ignore all religion, even the natural law, and we will prosper without any consequences.

But the second phase of apocalypse is the mark: forcing people of faith to embrace any and all aspects of this lie or suffer persecution. In pagan Rome, it was worship the Emperor or die. In the OT Maccabbees, it was worship Antiochus and desecrate the Temple with pagan idols, or die.

In communism, it was deny your faith or be tortured and killed [still is]

Well now, we don't have martyrdom yet, but the persecution is beginning:

The USA govt is now attempting to force all employers to provide health care that will include artificial birth control, sterilization, and abortion inducing drugs, or face consequences. This is like any other time we are forced to take a mark in salvation history: Do that which is wrong with your "right hand", or suffer persecution.

The archbishop of Portland has issued a letter to all the faithful in our diocese, calling on us to act to protect our religious freedom.

Let us pray that we and all persons of good will may be spared a persecution, but if it be God's will, may our sufferings help restore faith, as the Exile converted the Jews back to God in the restoration!

Note, Pope Paul VI prophesied the later consequences of the acceptance of artificial birth control in society: The moral decay, fornication, hedonism, same sex actions, bestiality. Later, it will be abortion as a right. Later, FORCED abortion, contraception, and sterilization. It is already fulfilled in China for decades, and we are next. Let us pray that prayer and fasting and conversion can save us from this in the West! Kyrie Eleison, Christe Eleison!
Amen!


+Jesus, I Trust in You!
Love, Dawn
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  #319  
Old Jan 26, '12, 6:58 pm
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Muzhik Muzhik is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnInTexas View Post
1 in 4 trees died in Texas in the Severe Drought over the Summer (100 days of 100 degrees and no rain). Branches are everywhere! I didn't realize how much until I drove to the grocery after working all night this morning. The sun came up. Holy Cow!

And, at our place we have about 30 acres of woods. The branches are knee to waist deep---everywhere. Pretty scary looking. I told my husband we need to clean that up (baby steps) before Summer. If there's another drought, we don't need all that kindling around.
Dawn, I am almost envious that you have all that wood! You have the makings of true independence! Check out these links:

Aprovecho Research Center

These are the people who first worked on the concept of the Rocket Stove. The goal was to make a high-efficiency stove that could be used in the 3rd world to replace the "3-stone" cooking fire. What you call "kindling", in a properly-designed rocket stove, can cook a meal for a family of 4. What's more, due to the high heat generated, there is much more thorough combustion, resulting in almost negligible amounts of soot and smoke.

Stovetec

The people at Aprovecho formed this company to commercially produce rocket stoves for both here and abroad.

I Love Cob Gallery

This shows one person's attempt to build a variation on the rocket stove, called a "Rocket Mass Heater". In short, the principles used in a rocket stove are used to heat up a large section of cobb, which is mud, straw, sand, and water mixed together. When you fire up a rocket mass heater, the fire heats up the cobb which stores the energy and slowly releases it into the room. As a result, burning the fire for two hours will provide enough stored energy to heat the room overnight. People not only heat their houses, but they use them to heat greenhouses as well as barns.

Burn Right Products

This is another variation on the rocket stove principles, used to build a high-efficiency burn barrel that is safe enough to use during burning bans.

Managing Your Woodlot for Firewood -- part of the "Heating With Wood" series from the Oklahoma Cooperative Extension Service. The drought won't last forever, and those 30 acres (even with that "kindling") could provide you and your husband some extra money. (or at least a lot of cooking fuel.)
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  #320  
Old Jan 26, '12, 7:19 pm
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beehumble beehumble is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Quote:
Originally Posted by spauline View Post
has it been made clear that the apocalypse now moves from the beast and false prophet's deception to persecution, the mark: The USA govt is now attempting to force all employers to provide health care that will include artificial birth control, sterilization, and abortion inducing drugs, or face consequences. This is like any other time we are forced to take a mark in salvation history: Do that which is wrong with your "right hand", or suffer persecution.

The archbishop of Portland has issued a letter to all the faithful in our diocese, calling on us to act to protect our religious freedom.
Yes, I posted on this in the beginning of December, noting the change from physical persecution orchestrated by Russia, over to spiritual persecution (such as being forced to provide health care that includes contraception, sterilization, etc as you mention) that occurred in the world when the Act of Consecration requested through Fatima was made by JPII. Russian atheistic communism came to an end but it had poisoned the west, as Jesus said, by the time of the consecration, so that spiritual persecution continues and is now accelerating :

Quote:
Originally Posted by beehumble View Post
Fatima is indeed the key to understanding where we are on the eschatological timeline of Salvation History, and we are at the end of that timeline.

The east, “Russia”, was singled out by Blessed Mary as the instrument of Satan who would lead the physical persecution and death of the People of God.

Jesus told Lucia, “They did not want to heed My request [the Act of Consecration] ! ... Like the King of France they will repent and do it, but it will be late. Russia will have already spread its errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecution against the Church: the Holy Father will have much to suffer.”

Jesus singles out Russian errors [atheism, relativism, humanism etc.] that will, and have, spread throughout the world, so now the West suffers spiritual persecution, a spiritual death in the form of apostasy.

So we see the century as one of physical and spiritual death of the People of God, starting from Russia in the East and spreading to the West. The People of God, that great Augustine “City of God”, lays “half in ruins” as seen in the vision of Lucia in the third part of the secret. Lucia’s vision is both literal and symbolic – literally many of the great cities of this world and their inhabitants were destroyed during the wars of the twentieth century. The rapid spread of so much death and destruction worldwide on an unprecedented scale served to weaken the faith in a loving God throughout large swaths of Christian civilization, especially devastated Europe. So symbolically, the “City of God” is also “half in ruins” as many Christians reject, in heart and/or actions, belief in their God, and fall away.

As Jesus said, the Act of Consecration was made, but late. Looking back over the history of the twentieth century, we see that the Act of Consecration led to the end of much of the physical persecution and death of the People of God in “Russia” – renamed during the century as the USSR – and all those places in the world where Russia by force of arms was trying to “kill” religion.

But also as Jesus said, Russia’s errors have already spread – the spiritual errors of atheism and humanism already had begun to infect the West by the time of the consecration, and the spread of the contagion continues to this day.

From the time of Fatima to the 1984 Consecration we see a period of brutal physical persecution of the people of the “City of God”; from 1984 until now we see a period of an equally brutal spiritual persecution against God's people, causing many to fall away. Thus from the time of Fatima until now we see persecution, whether physical or spiritual, against the “City of God”. As in Revelation 20, the camp, the “city” of the Holy ones is completely surrounded now. At that point in Revelation 20, the Lord intervenes to save His people, and that is where we are on the eschatological timeline of Salvation History.

We are living through the “hour” of Satan and his godless beasts.

But fear not, because in this Age of Mary, now comes the “hour” of Mary, and in the end, Our Lady will triumph and crush the head of Satan.

Just as Queen Esther’s intervention on the 13th of the month led to the triumph of God’s people over annihilation at the hands of the evil Haman, so Fatima and its occurrence on the 13th reveals the Book of Esther to be a foreshadowing of the triumph of Blessed Mary, our great Queen of Peace, over Satan.

“In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph.”

The "city of God" is surrounded, but we are fast approaching that great moment of the final triumph of Our Lady over Satan. The conclusion, the fulfillment of all that Our Lady began at Fatima is at hand!

Look up at that sign in the sun, the beautiful halo of the sun at Fatima on May 13 of this year! Note too the Feast of the Harvest - Sukkot - occurring on October 13 this year, the anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima.

Be ready!

God bless you.
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I will take Francisco and Jacinta [to Heaven] soon, but you must remain A While Longer. Jesus wishes to use you to make me better known and loved.
- Our Lady of Fatima to Lucia, 13 June 1917
  #321  
Old Jan 27, '12, 8:08 am
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spauline spauline is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Quote:
Originally Posted by beehumble View Post
Yes, I posted on this in the beginning of December, noting the change from physical persecution orchestrated by Russia, over to spiritual persecution (such as being forced to provide health care that includes contraception, sterilization, etc as you mention) that occurred in the world when the Act of Consecration requested through Fatima was made by JPII. Russian atheistic communism came to an end but it had poisoned the west, as Jesus said, by the time of the consecration, so that spiritual persecution continues and is now accelerating :
But, beehumble, thank you, but losing your job or being forced to close down your business IS physical persecution. Spiritual persecution is what we have had for 40 years: ridicule, ostracization, shunning, insults.
  #322  
Old Jan 27, '12, 1:54 pm
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beehumble beehumble is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

It is not a clear-cut solid line such as before March 25, 1984 there was only physical persecution and after that only spiritual persecution - it blends across that date - spiritual persecutions happened before then (abortion approved in the US in 1973 for example) but the order of magnitudes are different.

In the countries of the former Soviet Union, while persecutions of both types remain to varying degrees, it does not approach the magnitude of the gulags, the killings by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the government-created Holodomor famine of the Ukraine and many other violent atrocities that resulted in physical torture and death.

Likewise, while the physical persecution has lessoned very much, the spiritual persecution has increased - abortion went from the first trimester to the entire nine months, and even to near-infanticide called partial-birth abortion. And now we have gay-marriage, and some mainstream religious institutions such as the Anglican Church allowing gay priests and gay bishops (including gay women in these positions) to lead the people in worship of God. The Ten Commandments have been stripped from public view, and prayers have been removed from schools and censored in state houses. At the same time, we see the military allowing Wiccan chaplains. In Europe, the churches are 'empty' and the continent is now heavily secular.
All of this is spiritual persecution which is on the increase now, just as physical torture and death has waned from its peak in the mid-twentieth century.

Jesus said the Russian errors (mentioned by His mother at Fatima) had spread into the world by the time the consecration was made by JP II, and we see the fruits of the Russian errors today.

The general historical pattern apparently is false prophets, then physical persecution, then apostasy, with no solid line separating the three - false prophets exist during the apostasy, for example.

God bless you.
__________________
I will take Francisco and Jacinta [to Heaven] soon, but you must remain A While Longer. Jesus wishes to use you to make me better known and loved.
- Our Lady of Fatima to Lucia, 13 June 1917
  #323  
Old Jan 27, '12, 3:56 pm
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spauline spauline is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Quote:
Originally Posted by beehumble View Post
It is not a clear-cut solid line such as before March 25, 1984 there was only physical persecution and after that only spiritual persecution - it blends across that date - spiritual persecutions happened before then (abortion approved in the US in 1973 for example) but the order of magnitudes are different.

In the countries of the former Soviet Union, while persecutions of both types remain to varying degrees, it does not approach the magnitude of the gulags, the killings by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the government-created Holodomor famine of the Ukraine and many other violent atrocities that resulted in physical torture and death.

Likewise, while the physical persecution has lessoned very much, the spiritual persecution has increased - abortion went from the first trimester to the entire nine months, and even to near-infanticide called partial-birth abortion. And now we have gay-marriage, and some mainstream religious institutions such as the Anglican Church allowing gay priests and gay bishops (including gay women in these positions) to lead the people in worship of God. The Ten Commandments have been stripped from public view, and prayers have been removed from schools and censored in state houses. At the same time, we see the military allowing Wiccan chaplains. In Europe, the churches are 'empty' and the continent is now heavily secular.
All of this is spiritual persecution which is on the increase now, just as physical torture and death has waned from its peak in the mid-twentieth century.

Jesus said the Russian errors (mentioned by His mother at Fatima) had spread into the world by the time the consecration was made by JP II, and we see the fruits of the Russian errors today.

The general historical pattern apparently is false prophets, then physical persecution, then apostasy, with no solid line separating the three - false prophets exist during the apostasy, for example.

God bless you.
i agree, bee it is a mixture, but in general, the lies first take root, then the persecution, in whatever area you are talking about. For example, the lies of atheism were cultivated in 1800 's last decades, before they took fruition in communism in 1917
.
  #324  
Old Jan 27, '12, 4:55 pm
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beehumble beehumble is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Quote:
Originally Posted by spauline View Post
i agree, bee it is a mixture, but in general, the lies first take root, then the persecution, in whatever area you are talking about. For example, the lies of atheism were cultivated in 1800 's last decades, before they took fruition in communism in 1917
.
Yes i agree - the foundation ('false prophets') was laid for communism before 1917. Then came the persecution - Communism's ascendancy in Russia from its earliest days led to a blood bath of religious and those lay who refused to abandon their faith.
And now, we are awash in apostasy throughout the West.

As I posted, the general pattern seems to be 'false prophets', then persecution, then apostasy.

God bless you.
__________________
I will take Francisco and Jacinta [to Heaven] soon, but you must remain A While Longer. Jesus wishes to use you to make me better known and loved.
- Our Lady of Fatima to Lucia, 13 June 1917
  #325  
Old Jan 27, '12, 5:04 pm
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spauline spauline is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Quote:
Originally Posted by beehumble View Post
Yes i agree - the foundation ('false prophets') was laid for communism before 1917. Then came the persecution - Communism's ascendancy in Russia from its earliest days led to a blood bath of religious and those lay who refused to abandon their faith.
And now, we are awash in apostasy throughout the West.

As I posted, the general pattern seems to be 'false prophets', then persecution, then apostasy.

God bless you.
no, what i mean is false prophets, then apostasy, then persecution. this is how it is in the west: the false prophet of elvis and secularism, then the apostasy of last 40 years, now persecution beginning with health bill, hate speech, force immoral academics
look at apocalypse, that is the order. The false prophet is consummate with apostasy, "the whole wondered and said, Who is like the beast, and who is able to fight against it", but the persecution is later, the mark, apoc 15
  #326  
Old Jan 27, '12, 5:32 pm
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beehumble beehumble is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Definitions issue is all - i think of government intrusion via laws/court rulings to be 'spiritual' persecution.
By physical persecution I mean actual harm to the human body via torture and death.

God bless you.
__________________
I will take Francisco and Jacinta [to Heaven] soon, but you must remain A While Longer. Jesus wishes to use you to make me better known and loved.
- Our Lady of Fatima to Lucia, 13 June 1917
  #327  
Old Jan 27, '12, 5:33 pm
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donsnow donsnow is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Quote:
Originally Posted by spauline View Post
This is an amplified form:

Has it been made clear that the apocalypse now moves from the beast and false prophet's deception to persecution, the mark. The first phase in apoclaypse 13, a metaphor for any age in which the fall reigns supreme in a society, is that the society is deceived that it can totally ignore God's truth and law, escape all consequences, and then nevertheless secure all prosperity and peace purely through materialistic grandeur. That has happened many times in Salvation history:

Noah's day: we can be wicked, and there will be no flood.

Babel, we can build a material utopia without God.

Egypt: we can use God's People to build a material grandeur and we will get away with it

Before the Exile: we, the Jews, can ignore the Mosaic Law and keep living idolatry and sin, and there will be no exile into Babylon.

Pagan Rome: we have the great universal material utopia, and we are our own gods, not Christ.

And today, the last generation: we can build a secular utopia from materialistic progress and science and ignore all religion, even the natural law, and we will prosper without any consequences.

But the second phase of apocalypse is the mark: forcing people of faith to embrace any and all aspects of this lie or suffer persecution. In pagan Rome, it was worship the Emperor or die. In the OT Maccabbees, it was worship Antiochus and desecrate the Temple with pagan idols, or die.

In communism, it was deny your faith or be tortured and killed [still is]

Well now, we don't have martyrdom yet, but the persecution is beginning:

The USA govt is now attempting to force all employers to provide health care that will include artificial birth control, sterilization, and abortion inducing drugs, or face consequences. This is like any other time we are forced to take a mark in salvation history: Do that which is wrong with your "right hand", or suffer persecution.

The archbishop of Portland has issued a letter to all the faithful in our diocese, calling on us to act to protect our religious freedom.

Let us pray that we and all persons of good will may be spared a persecution, but if it be God's will, may our sufferings help restore faith, as the Exile converted the Jews back to God in the restoration!

Note, Pope Paul VI prophesied the later consequences of the acceptance of artificial birth control in society: The moral decay, fornication, hedonism, same sex actions, bestiality. Later, it will be abortion as a right. Later, FORCED abortion, contraception, and sterilization. It is already fulfilled in China for decades, and we are next. Let us pray that prayer and fasting and conversion can save us from this in the West! Kyrie Eleison, Christe Eleison!


Good evening, Scott,

Thank you for this outline and synopsis of how the devil works.

God loves you and yours,
Don
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We're all God's creatures...and some humans can be His children. - Don D. Snow

Even the ignorant, may have wisdom. Anonymous
  #328  
Old Jan 27, '12, 5:38 pm
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Quote:
Originally Posted by beehumble View Post
It is not a clear-cut solid line such as before March 25, 1984 there was only physical persecution and after that only spiritual persecution - it blends across that date - spiritual persecutions happened before then (abortion approved in the US in 1973 for example) but the order of magnitudes are different.

In the countries of the former Soviet Union, while persecutions of both types remain to varying degrees, it does not approach the magnitude of the gulags, the killings by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the government-created Holodomor famine of the Ukraine and many other violent atrocities that resulted in physical torture and death.

Likewise, while the physical persecution has lessoned very much, the spiritual persecution has increased - abortion went from the first trimester to the entire nine months, and even to near-infanticide called partial-birth abortion. And now we have gay-marriage, and some mainstream religious institutions such as the Anglican Church allowing gay priests and gay bishops (including gay women in these positions) to lead the people in worship of God. The Ten Commandments have been stripped from public view, and prayers have been removed from schools and censored in state houses. At the same time, we see the military allowing Wiccan chaplains. In Europe, the churches are 'empty' and the continent is now heavily secular.
All of this is spiritual persecution which is on the increase now, just as physical torture and death has waned from its peak in the mid-twentieth century.

Jesus said the Russian errors (mentioned by His mother at Fatima) had spread into the world by the time the consecration was made by JP II, and we see the fruits of the Russian errors today.

The general historical pattern apparently is false prophets, then physical persecution, then apostasy, with no solid line separating the three - false prophets exist during the apostasy, for example.

God bless you.

Good evening, beehumble,

I can see it both ways, what you and Scott have written. The sequence of events can be quite fluid. I saw false prophets (atheist and socialist professors) in college turning out apostate students before there was persecution in America. However, as recent as the '90's, five missionaries in Philadelphia were jailed for hate speech in Philadelphia at a gay block party ... for preaching the gospel to them. That's persecution.

Just my two cents' worth.

God loves you and yours,
Don
__________________
God is love - St. John

Prayer is the purest form of human love - Don D. Snow

We're all God's creatures...and some humans can be His children. - Don D. Snow

Even the ignorant, may have wisdom. Anonymous
  #329  
Old Jan 27, '12, 5:59 pm
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beehumble beehumble is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

yes, it can happen more than one way for sure - I did not mean to imply it is a rigid or absolute pattern - but a prevalent pattern nonetheless in major historical movements such as the arrival of communism.

God bless you.
__________________
I will take Francisco and Jacinta [to Heaven] soon, but you must remain A While Longer. Jesus wishes to use you to make me better known and loved.
- Our Lady of Fatima to Lucia, 13 June 1917
  #330  
Old Jan 27, '12, 10:09 pm
GEddie GEddie is offline
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Default Re: End Times Speculation XIV

Quote:
Originally Posted by beehumble View Post
Definitions issue is all - i think of government intrusion via laws/court rulings to be 'spiritual' persecution.
By physical persecution I mean actual harm to the human body via torture and death.

God bless you.
They merge together, in that government action tolerates, then legitimizes, then mandates physical harm to the human bodies.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA
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