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  #1  
Old Nov 22, '11, 12:10 pm
MontChevalier MontChevalier is offline
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Join Date: January 21, 2011
Posts: 466
Religion: Officially Catholic, 11/24/11; Working on TL Catholic
Exclamation Bible verses added at later times?

Just recently, a poster made a comment about how there are certain Bible verses which weren't in the original manuscripts. This has really troubled me, and I would like some feedback on what's going on.

I would like to point out the verses...

John 7:53-8:11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_a...en_in_adultery

And then there are these:

1 John 5:7-8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

Mark 16:9-20

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_16...ript_tradition

Luke 22:43-44

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ%..._at_Gethsemane

John 5:3-4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_5#Interpolation

Matthew 16:2-3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_16:2b%E2%80%933

The Lord's Prayer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27..._ever._Amen.22

The Last Supper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Su..._the_Eucharist

This is all so.....disturbing.

Please help.

-MontChevalier
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  #2  
Old Nov 22, '11, 12:57 pm
Mike30 Mike30 is offline
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Join Date: September 14, 2011
Posts: 939
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Bible verses added at later times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontChevalier View Post
Just recently, a poster made a comment about how there are certain Bible verses which weren't in the original manuscripts. This has really troubled me, and I would like some feedback on what's going on.

I would like to point out the verses...

John 7:53-8:11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_a...en_in_adultery

And then there are these:

1 John 5:7-8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

Mark 16:9-20

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_16...ript_tradition

Luke 22:43-44

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ%..._at_Gethsemane

John 5:3-4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_5#Interpolation

Matthew 16:2-3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_16:2b%E2%80%933

The Lord's Prayer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27..._ever._Amen.22

The Last Supper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Su..._the_Eucharist

This is all so.....disturbing.

Please help.

-MontChevalier
Why exactly is it disturbing? We don't have the originals of any of the manuscripts and in fact the earliest evidence that we have, P52 is from about 125 AD and it is only the size of a credit card. Since we are not like the Muslims and do not believe that the entire Bible is the actual, literal word of God does it really make any difference?
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  #3  
Old Nov 22, '11, 1:05 pm
YoungTradCath's Avatar
YoungTradCath YoungTradCath is offline
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Join Date: August 2, 2011
Posts: 6,965
Religion: Latin Catholic
Default Re: Bible verses added at later times?

So? I mean, I can't really express it past that. When I was a Protestant, if I heard this, I'd probably be appalled. What exactly makes the Bible "as is?"
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  #4  
Old Nov 22, '11, 1:18 pm
Belloc Fan Belloc Fan is offline
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Join Date: September 1, 2008
Posts: 747
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Bible verses added at later times?

MontChevalier,

No need to be disturbed.

First of all, the human authorship is less important than the Divine authorship.

Second, the Holy Spirit can inspire additions to texts, as well. For example, there's no denying that Moses isn't the author of the last chapter of the Torah: it's Deuteronomy 34, and it's about Moses' death. Yet it's always been accepted as part of inspired Scripture, by even the most conservative of Jewish factions (the Sadducees, who had only the first five Books in their Bible).

Third, many of these "additions" may be "subtractions." For example, Luke 22:43-44 is reported from a very early date. It may well have been simply omitted in one of the translations because a copyist skipped a line.

Fourth, the material in these "additions" is ancient in origin. Nobody is claiming that these are Medieval additions. For example, the doxology at the end of the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:13) is attested to in the Didache, which is as old as the New Testament.

Fifth, all of the controverted sections are orthodox. None teach anything contrary to the rest of Scripture: in fact, whether originally written by the human authors, these statements all seem to be true.

Sixth, as Catholics, we don't believe in sola Scirptura. Even if the entire Bible were lost tomorrow, we could know the Gospel through extra-Scriptural attestation from a very early period.

Seventh, there's no reason to hang your faith on this one way or the other. What difference should it make for your immortal soul whether or not the pool of Siloam was stirred by an angel or not?

To the extent that additions exist, most of them are from what are called glosses. The idea is this. An early Christian wrote notes in his copy of, say, the Gospel of Luke. When another Christian went to copy his personal Gospel of Luke, the notes got included along with the main text. No conspiracy, no apparently intentional Bible-tampering, just an innocent mistake.

God bless!
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1 Peter 4:8 Above all hold unfailing your love for one another, since love covers a multitude of sins.
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  #5  
Old Nov 22, '11, 2:22 pm
MontChevalier MontChevalier is offline
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Join Date: January 21, 2011
Posts: 466
Religion: Officially Catholic, 11/24/11; Working on TL Catholic
Default Re: Bible verses added at later times?

If none of this is a problem, then where do we Catholics stand? Is the church our guide?

-MontChevalier
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  #6  
Old Nov 22, '11, 2:40 pm
Catholic1954 Catholic1954 is offline
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Join Date: December 9, 2008
Posts: 4,588
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Bible verses added at later times?

The Church is our guide. Jesus left us a Church, not the bible.
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  #7  
Old Nov 22, '11, 2:53 pm
Mike30 Mike30 is offline
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Join Date: September 14, 2011
Posts: 939
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Bible verses added at later times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontChevalier View Post
If none of this is a problem, then where do we Catholics stand? Is the church our guide?

-MontChevalier
The Church is our guide. The Church interprets scripture. We don't do that as Catholics. Protestants to a great degree rely solely on scripture and each individuals interpretation of it. That has never been the Catholics Church's teaching. Scripture is interpretated in the light of tradition by the Church and always has been.

That is one of the big differences between Catholicism and the various protestant groups.
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