Existance of hell - Page 2

**Trishie** · #16 Nov 27, '11, 8:31 pm

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329....

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330
842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332
844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them: Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

InDefense · #17 Nov 28, '11, 4:35 am

Hell certainly does exist. Don't go to hell, you will suffer eternal torment. If you aren't saved yet, read Peter's reply in Acts 2:38.

You must:

1. Repent
2. Be baptised in water in full immersion (infant baptism doesn't count)
3. Receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

After doing these, continue to do good and look forward to eternity in heaven with God !

thistle · #18 Nov 28, '11, 5:15 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by InDefense

Hell certainly does exist. Don't go to hell, you will suffer eternal torment. If you aren't saved yet, read Peter's reply in Acts 2:38.

You must:

1. Repent
2. Be baptised in water in full immersion (infant baptism doesn't count)
3. Receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

After doing these, continue to do good and look forward to eternity in heaven with God !

This is nonsense. What cult do you belong to?

thistle · #19 Nov 28, '11, 5:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyrobbie

Forgive me brothers and sisters in the Church,

But I'm having a hard time believing an existence in hell... I really would rather believe that an all knowing and loving God who is probably one of the most enlightened and merciful in the history of man condemns people to suffer forever...

I'm questioning the fact that all my Buddhist, Muslim, Orthodox, Jewish, and Protestant friends and family members who are happy in their faiths are condemned to hell...

I just can't bring myself to believe it... I tried talking to my parish priest and asking him about it and all he said was that "Hell is there; accept it and get over it."

I refuse to believe it... And it's sad because I'm willing to continue the belief that all are eventually reconciled with God...

Call me a heretic or universalist if you must; but an all loving God could not be so cruel to let people "burn in hell." He created us in his image and even says he loves everyone...

I refuse to believe in eternal suffering...

So you are telling us that Jesus lied???

**GEddie** · #20 Nov 28, '11, 9:06 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by InDefense

Hell certainly does exist. Don't go to hell, you will suffer eternal torment. If you aren't saved yet, read Peter's reply in Acts 2:38.

You must:

1. Repent
2. Be baptised in water in full immersion (infant baptism doesn't count)
3. Receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

After doing these, continue to do good and look forward to eternity in heaven with God !

As to your point 3: Saint Paul would likely disagree with you. His preaching on the Spiritual Gifts infers that not everybody will speak in tongues.

ICXC NIKA

Nicea325 · #21 Nov 28, '11, 3:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotWorthy

No offense, my brother in Christ, but did you go to the same sensitivity training as mikeyrobbie's parish priest?

Nicea325 · #22 Nov 28, '11, 3:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by InDefense

Hell certainly does exist. Don't go to hell, you will suffer eternal torment. If you aren't saved yet, read Peter's reply in Acts 2:38.

You must:

1. Repent
2. Be baptised in water in full immersion (infant baptism doesn't count)
3. Receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

After doing these, continue to do good and look forward to eternity in heaven with God !

And who are you even claim infant baptism does not even count? Who made you God?

**NotWorthy** · #23 Nov 28, '11, 8:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicea325

And who are you even claim infant baptism does not even count? Who made you God?

Ha! I always figure if it was good enough for the 1st century Church, then its good enough for me!

Leegal · #24 Nov 28, '11, 9:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by meltzerboy

From what I've learned about Catholicism on this Forum and elsewhere, I don't think Catholic teaching states that Orthodox, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists automatically go to Hell since they are not Catholic. Especially Orthodox, and also Protestants, who are fellow Christians; but Jews and Muslims as well, according to the Catechism, and even Hindus and Buddhists, are not necessarily bound for Hell, based on the possibility of invincible ignorance on their part.

This is exactly so. The possibility for getting to Hell is if you reject what you know to be true. There's simply no logic to a belief that a good person of another faith would not have the benefits of Heaven. Even atheists can make it to Heaven, if the atheism does not arise out of a rejection of a previously known truth.

thistle · #25 Nov 28, '11, 10:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leegal

This is exactly so. The possibility for getting to Hell is if you reject what you know to be true. There's simply no logic to a belief that a good person of another faith would not have the benefits of Heaven. Even atheists can make it to Heaven, if the atheism does not arise out of a rejection of a previously known truth.

Everyone in Heaven is a Catholic.

InDefense · #26 Nov 28, '11, 10:30 pm

You can't earn your way into heaven by only doing good works and being a nice person. There are people who do good works, but reject God. There are people that are nice, that also reject God.

Scripture says in Acts 4:12:

"...there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Buddhists do not even believe in God, let alone Jesus Christ ! They aren't much better than athiests !

Muslims do not believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. A big problem !

1 John 2:
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

How can they be saved ?

Some may claim that God will overlook their ignorance or deception. Really ? Will God overlook a false teacher, a false prophet, what about the rest of world, who are deceived by the devil. Willl they too be overlooked ? If even athiests, buddhists and muslims will be saved, what's the point in following Christ ?

E Thrower II · #27 Nov 28, '11, 10:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyrobbie

Forgive me brothers and sisters in the Church,

But I'm having a hard time believing an existence in hell... I really would rather believe that an all knowing and loving God who is probably one of the most enlightened and merciful in the history of man condemns people to suffer forever...

I'm questioning the fact that all my Buddhist, Muslim, Orthodox, Jewish, and Protestant friends and family members who are happy in their faiths are condemned to hell...

I just can't bring myself to believe it... I tried talking to my parish priest and asking him about it and all he said was that "Hell is there; accept it and get over it."

I refuse to believe it... And it's sad because I'm willing to continue the belief that all are eventually reconciled with God...

Call me a heretic or universalist if you must; but an all loving God could not be so cruel to let people "burn in hell." He created us in his image and even says he loves everyone...

I refuse to believe in eternal suffering...

You're making an assumption that just because they 'currently' may not accept Christ that they are going to hell. No one knows who God's people are and no one knows what God has in store for your friends. Do not assume they are going to hell because the are Buddhist, Muslim, Orthodox, Jewish, and Protestant. Even if they do not believe in Christ today they may change tomorrow. It's also important to remember that we are not saving souls for heaven, that's God's business. But, we can save them from committing sin. I figure as long as your friends are doing their best to do the right thing, continue ministering to them. Use your emotion to fuel your ministry rather than allowing it to spiral you into despair.

God teaches us through His written Word that He has a people of every nation kindred and tongue. Therefore, figuratively speaking, if you get to heaven and find that everyone there is of the same denomination and nationality that you are... LEAVE! lol.

E Thrower II · #28 Nov 28, '11, 10:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistle

Everyone in Heaven is a Catholic.

lol. Are you serious?

E Thrower II · #29 Nov 28, '11, 10:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by InDefense

Hell certainly does exist. Don't go to hell, you will suffer eternal torment. If you aren't saved yet, read Peter's reply in Acts 2:38.

You must:

1. Repent
2. Be baptised in water in full immersion (infant baptism doesn't count)
3. Receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

After doing these, continue to do good and look forward to eternity in heaven with God !

lol. This does not grant eternal salvation sir! lol.

E Thrower II · #30 Nov 28, '11, 10:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicea325

And who are you even claim infant baptism does not even count? Who made you God?

Nothing wrong with offering your child to God. However, baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh), but the answer of a good conscience toward God, which babies cannot do (give an answer to a good conscience).