Checkmate in 3 moves

[Kismetji]

Again, I am not saying I agree that something comes from nothing. To me this seems counterintuitive. I just don't understand, for the life of me, how anyone can be dead-certain that something cannot come from nothing. That is just presumption.

[MindOverMatter2]

Originally Posted by Kismetji

If nothing is the absence of everything, you cannot even say it is an absence, because that is predicating something of nothing.
.

No it is not. To speak of an absence of something is merely to symbolize the absence of a thing rather than to speak of a thing.

You are basically saying that we cannot speak of the concept of nothing unless we say that it is a thing; which is absurd.

[FurtherSuntime]

1...Theres no such thing as nothing to negotiate.....check

[Kismetji]

Originally Posted by MindOverMatter2

No it is not. To speak of an absence of something is merely to symbolize the absence of a thing rather than to speak of a thing.

You are basically saying that we cannot speak of the concept nothing unless we say that is a thing; which is absurd.

An absence of a thing is not nothing! Unicorns not existing does not mean nothing exists!

So, an absence is not nothing. Neither can you say nothing amounts to an absence. That is nonsense.

Nothing cannot even logically exist.

[MindOverMatter2]

Originally Posted by Kismetji

Again, I am not saying I agree that something comes from nothing. To me this seems counterintuitive.

Why is it counterintuitive?

[Credo in Deum]

Originally Posted by Kismetji

Nothing cannot even logically exist.

And this is how we know something can only come from something.

[Kismetji]

Originally Posted by MindOverMatter2

Why is it counterintuitive?

Because I've always seen something new acted upon by something on prior matter. Unless someone can show me, I don't know, some exotic matter that "poofs" into existence. Only even then I can question and open up space to assume it came from somewhere.

[Kismetji]

Originally Posted by Credo in Deum

And this is how we know something can only come from something.

Yeah, the universe always existing. LOL.

There's no reason against that, if nothing existing is a logical absurdity.

[MindOverMatter2]

Originally Posted by Kismetji

An absence of a thing is not nothing!

Thats what the word nothing means!! no/thing no object.

This is not difficult.

Originally Posted by Kismetji

Unicorns not existing does not mean nothing exists!

It means no unicorns exist. Nothing is meaningless except as a negation of things

Originally Posted by Kismetji

Nothing cannot even logically exist.

Bingo! Therefore my argument stands unrefuted.

Its surprising how you know so much about nothing when you think it will benefit you.

[FurtherSuntime]

Come on mate....concede ? ( intimidation

[Kismetji]

Originally Posted by MindOverMatter2

Thats what the word nothing means!! no/thing no object.

If that were the case, every time you used "nothing" you would be referring to the absence of something.

Originally Posted by MindOverMatter2

This is not difficult.

Originally Posted by MindOverMatter2

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Go take a class on Quine.

[quote=MindOverMatter2;8634974]
It means no unicorns exist. Nothing is meaningless except as a negation of things

Originally Posted by MindOverMatter2

So what's the issue with bringing in a Creator??


Bingo! Therefore my argument stands unrefuted.

Its surprising how you know so much about nothing.

Do you think I care? To both propositions?

[Kismetji]

Originally Posted by FurtherSuntime

Come on mate....concede ? ( intimidation

I don't feel intimidated. I feel amused actually.

None of what you guys say makes any sense to me.

[MindOverMatter2]

Originally Posted by Kismetji

I don't feel intimidated. I feel amused actually.

None of what you guys say makes any sense to me.

Says the guy that thinks its possible for reality to come from the absence of reality.

[Kismetji]

Originally Posted by MindOverMatter2

Says the guy that thinks its possible for reality to come from the absence of reality.

If the absence of reality entails the absence of logic, then why not?

[Credo in Deum]

Originally Posted by Kismetji

Yeah, the universe always existing. LOL.

There's no reason against that, if nothing existing is a logical absurdity.

The physical sphere shows that everything must come from something. The universe is made of up of energy and therefore came from something. Only something immaterial/supernatural could be eternal.