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  #31  
Old Jan 11, '12, 3:59 pm
HouseArrest HouseArrest is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane View Post
OK, I am going by the first-hand experience of a man who has talked to thousands of young women and has his finger on the pulse of that population. As well as my own and my son's experience. Believe what you want. But don't think these girls can't break a heart and shatter a soul, and keep on going.
Oh I don't think their behavior is without consequences for everyone involved with them. I certainly do think they take many people down with them with their actions.
  #32  
Old Jan 11, '12, 4:34 pm
HouseArrest HouseArrest is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

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Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
I just read your post, The Real Juliane. Thanks for your honest assessment, too. Your response rings true to me because of how much she hates her fatheer and how she has watched her mother struggle as a single mother. She has been used by many young men.
They both tell each other they love each other, and have since @ two weeks after starting to 'date.' According to my DD, my DS sent a text to his GF after a particularly bitter confonrtation where I told him my DH and I didn't approve of the relationship, said, "I love you, no matter what my mom thinks."
Sounds like a rebellion of sorts, doesn't it?
Well you wouldn't disapprove of the relationship if it were appropriate. Tell him that. And that if he loves her, he will do what is best for her, and that means remaining chaste.

Does he realize how much *she* has to lose in this arrangement?
  #33  
Old Jan 11, '12, 5:27 pm
Castello Castello is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Search is coming up in March.

If I were you attendance would be a non-negotiable.

http://www.dolr.org/calendar-event.php?id=2128
  #34  
Old Jan 11, '12, 7:54 pm
Cat Cat is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

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Originally Posted by SouthCatholic View Post
But isn't this once again putting him in a place where his faith is immature? IF this is the path he follows and these are actions the parents take, aren't you (the universal you) simply rewarding him for imitating parental faith practices in the same way the priest described?
No, because he's older and more mature in every way, plus he has his own experiences to add to his "wisdom pool."
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  #35  
Old Jan 11, '12, 8:29 pm
ArkansasMom ArkansasMom is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

So, we're trying to sort out what we will do. My DH argued about it tonight, this whole thing is really taking its toll on us all as a family.

Thinking of my DS's GF using the pill as birth control, the lies he's been telling for three months, sex outside of marriage, disobeying parents, skipping mass a few weeks ago and questioning God, just the many ways that my sweet son has been slapping God in the face. I am so disheartened by it, and we are afraid if we go toe to toe (again), we just encourage him to lie to see her (again)--at the least--and go to live with her (as they were planning at one point) at the worst. Worried she's pregnant, or will become pregnant, worrying about where he is, if he's safe, if he has a disease, if he'll have to give up the scholarships he just got for college in the fall if she gets pregnant . . . and then what we'll all do when it will all comes crashing down. Meanwhile my DS is telling his 16-year old sister what he has done, so now she gets to hear the details of how his girlfriend was 'bi'-curious last summer, slept with multiple guys including a few boys she knows, and now that her brother is having sex w/his GF...on top of all of the lying, manipulating, etc., etc.

All this from a devout Catholic, homeschooled family.
  #36  
Old Jan 11, '12, 10:32 pm
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domandcarols domandcarols is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

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Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
So, we're trying to sort out what we will do. My DH argued about it tonight, this whole thing is really taking its toll on us all as a family.

Thinking of my DS's GF using the pill as birth control, the lies he's been telling for three months, sex outside of marriage, disobeying parents, skipping mass a few weeks ago and questioning God, just the many ways that my sweet son has been slapping God in the face. I am so disheartened by it, and we are afraid if we go toe to toe (again), we just encourage him to lie to see her (again)--at the least--and go to live with her (as they were planning at one point) at the worst. Worried she's pregnant, or will become pregnant, worrying about where he is, if he's safe, if he has a disease, if he'll have to give up the scholarships he just got for college in the fall if she gets pregnant . . . and then what we'll all do when it will all comes crashing down. Meanwhile my DS is telling his 16-year old sister what he has done, so now she gets to hear the details of how his girlfriend was 'bi'-curious last summer, slept with multiple guys including a few boys she knows, and now that her brother is having sex w/his GF...on top of all of the lying, manipulating, etc., etc.

All this from a devout Catholic, homeschooled family.
Um. He's telling his little sister? What gall. His dad needs to slap him really hard and then kick him out of the house. Do not let him anywhere near your daughter.
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  #37  
Old Jan 12, '12, 4:13 am
Cat Cat is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

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Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
Thanks, CAT, your words are honest and true. Okay, yeah, they hurt a little, but only because they are true. I know that he's always been an obedient child who wants to please us. When he has been asked to speak at retreats, he really hasn't had any 'struggles' in his lifetime to address. I know that this has to run its course to its fruition, and that I can't stop the roller coaster until my DS and/or his girlfriend decide the ride is over.

It irks me that it will be my husband and I who will be the ones to pick up the pieces, but I know that it is true.

Practically, at this time, we have some action decisions to make regarding 1. informing and enlightening him regarding STDs/possible vaccinations/pregnancy/legal issues surrounding pregnancy/financial obligations of pregnancy, etc. and 2. what our limits will be regarding the use of our property/home/etc., given that we have younger children and don't support this value system.

Do you have suggestions regarding #2? He is still a Sr. in high school and will be starting college in the area this fall, so has the option of living at home this summer.

Your experience and input is a great help, thanks so much for taking the time in your last post.
This is all up to you.

Unless you are willing to chain him to your house, you really can't stop his behavior outside of your home. Maybe others disagree, but I don't see practically how you can stop him.

But you can certainly prevent any bad behavior INSIDE your home. In other words, no girlfriend over after certain hours, no girlfriend alone in any room, no PDAs when girlfriend is over, no goodnight kisses where little ones might witness them. Or you can just say, "No girlfriend ever in our home." But I wouldn't do that. I agree with some of the other posters who say that you should try to befriend his girlfriend. You might help save a soul.

You can also enforce curfews, which may curtail his behavior outside the home a little.

But remember, any behavior that you want to forbid, in or out of your house--you MUST have consequences for violations, and even though it's hard, you must be prepared to follow through on consequences. If you say that he will lose the keys to the car, you must be prepared to take the keys away, and then stand by while he arranges rides to school with friends, or walks, or rides a bike (in the winter). If you decide to give him a ride yourself, it would be good to charge him a taxi fee so he doesn't just make life harder for you.

Perhaps you want him to chip in with rent and expenses, chores, child-care, car payments, etc. I think this is very fair. I think that as long as he has a free billet, he will remain halfway between being a child and being a man. What you want to do is make him grow up fully and be a man. A man who is having sex with a woman should behave like a man in all things, not just bedroom activities. Make him do that if he wants to live at home. Fair enough. A lot of adult children who live at home chip in for expenses and chores.

You see, it's really hard with adult children. You can't just give them a time out.

I would suggest that the three of you have a heart-to-heart.talk at a time when there are no other children around to interrupt you. Perhaps take the children to a relative's or friend's home so that you can have this discussion in the privacy of your home.

Tell your son what you tell us--that you are in disapproval of his behavior, that it is against all your morals, and that you wish you could ask him to leave the home. Ask if this is something that he wants you to do.

Listen to your son. Maybe he WANTS to leave home now. I have two co-workers who left their homes the day they turned 18 years old. They didn't have any animosity towards their families--they just wanted so much to be out on their own. They had a plan lined up, a small apartment with roommates, and jobs to support themselves. They went to classes at local community colleges. It all worked out.

So maybe this is a plan that your son has, although it seems obvious that he wants to be with his girlfriend, not just male roommates. Well, if that's what he wants, and he is willing to struggle along financially, let him go and tell him that you are praying for him. (And have him and his girlfriend over for dinner once a week so they don't starve.)

Or maybe your son just wants you both to accept his girlfriend and allow her to come over and get to know the family. That's do-able. I would give it a try.

Work out all the details. If you are expecting rent payments, expenses, chores, etc., be specific (don't just say, "whatever you can afford"). If you expect certain chores, be specific. Or child-care--list specific times and dates that he is in charge of his siblings.

List your house rules, and make sure that he is on board with these. (e.g., no girlfriend alone in bedroom, no R-rated television shows with girlfriend, etc.)

At any rate, talk long and hard. Talk as three adults, not as parents-to-child. He is a man now--talk with him like a man about expenses, responsibilities, rules, etc.

Don't expect him to repent, change his ways, and drop his girlfriend. But expect him to help you both work out a do-able plan with you and his family. Making him never see his girlfriend again is probably not a do-able plan, even though it's what you want to do. If you try to be authoritarian, you will lose him. But setting some house rules and consequences is do-able.

Godspeed to you. It will all work out. Remember that promise.
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  #38  
Old Jan 12, '12, 4:27 am
Cat Cat is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

One more thing--the lying has to stop.

A poster above said that his father should slap him hard and kick him out of the house.

I disagree with the slapping part (corporal punishment is only effective with children under the age of six).

But I do agree with the kicking out of the house. Lying is one of the sins that God hates. (Proverbs lists seven, and lying is listed twice.)

I would say that any untruths from your son will result in his leaving your home and finding alternative housing.

Generally spekaing, a man can find places to stay (if he doesn't have any guy friends, or if his girlfriend won't take him in, a homeless shelter will take him in) and remain fairly safe.

Tell your son that if he tells the truth, even if you disapprove and cry, you will not throw him out of the house. But if he lies, he's out.

Also, he must be made to stop discussing his sex life with his siblings. That's despicable behavior. If necessary, move him to a basement bedroom, or even out into the living room so you can watch him.
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  #39  
Old Jan 12, '12, 8:50 am
ArkansasMom ArkansasMom is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

I think the elephant in the room in our home has been that this young man is just that . . . . a man. He has always been the child who wanted to stay a chilld forever. The relationship he has developed may have sort of jerked him out of that mode, and we have come late to the game.

If this had been a girl that we shared a faith/values/etc. with, it would have been much easier. This certainly isn't the type of woman we had hoped for him, but we have definitely learned that we can't control his choices. We have tried to guide him and he has always been open to that, but he told us months ago, after they first started dating, that we would not like him if we really knew him. I think he meant that we would not like the choices he was making if we knew what they were . . . and now we know, and, yes, he was right. We don't like the choices. We just wanted to make life smooth for him, knowing how difficult it can be. But the choices he has made have made it difficult, and we can't change that for him.

However, we have other children at home, our own morality to follow and our own marriage to consider. We also see some trainable moments here for our DS here, but I am afraid this life experience is going to give him the most training of all.

My DH and I are planning to have our DS tested for STDs tomorrow and then we are going to talk to him tomorrow night about all of the things we've been talking about. Your right, we can no longer see him as a child. He is acting like a man in every sense of the word, now, and it is time to train a future husband/father to take responsibility for his expenses, behavior, etc. I think in many ways we had to stop seeing him as a dependent . . . and now see him as someone who may have to provide for his own dependent, perhaps even sooner than we would want.

I've read all of your posts over several times. You all have strengthened me so much, and led me through a difficult transition time. I can't tell you how much your time and effort . . . and prayers . . . have meant for my DH and me. Sharing your experiences so openly and honestly has been so touching, I am grateful for each of you. Pray for us as we move through this journey . . . and if you think of any other tips or ideas for us going into tomorrow night's discussion, let me know!

Our challenge, now, is to determine our own boundaries, expectations,
  #40  
Old Jan 12, '12, 12:32 pm
ArkansasMom ArkansasMom is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

...and I know all of this on a logical level . . . but why does this whole situation make me so sad?
  #41  
Old Jan 12, '12, 12:34 pm
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domandcarols domandcarols is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

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Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
...and I know all of this on a logical level . . . but why does this whole situation make me so sad?
Because it is a sad situation and I'm so sorry. You sound like a really good mom, I don't think it's your fault. People just go through bad times and fazes. I'll pray for you and your family.
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  #42  
Old Jan 12, '12, 12:38 pm
ArkansasMom ArkansasMom is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Thanks, I appreciate that. I guess we raise our children with our own vision of what we'd like for them . . . and then when it ends up being different, it's just sad. And his purity is something he can't get back again.
  #43  
Old Jan 12, '12, 3:08 pm
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

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Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
Thanks, I appreciate that. I guess we raise our children with our own vision of what we'd like for them . . . and then when it ends up being different, it's just sad. And his purity is something he can't get back again.
That was one of the things that broke my heart when I found out my son had lost his virginity. I want so much more for my sons than what I had... I wanted to save him from the pain that I knew was going to happen...can't do it. Our kids will grow up somehow, and sometimes they push themselves out of the nest in a very intense and somewhat ugly way.

I agree with the others who say that your son wants to act like a man, and so he should get all of the opportunities that go along with that. It may sound harsh, but you can tell him he is on his own for college. That he will have to find a way to fund his own life now, since he wants to enjoy the benefits of making his own choices. Not in an angry way, not vengeful, just matter of fact. He can't eat his cake and have it too. Especially when he's now sharing details with his little sister, being a bad influence in her life. That has to stop, immediately. I would be VERY angry with him about that. Fortunately our son IS the youngest so there was no one to influence.

Your son is really trying to determine just how far he can go. He's probably unprepared for what is going to happen next. But that is life.

You will remain in my prayers.
  #44  
Old Jan 12, '12, 5:13 pm
ArkansasMom ArkansasMom is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

Yes, I agree, we do want so much more for our children. And I agree that he needs to stop talking to his sister. She has already been through too much with all of this. That will be a major emphasis of our conversation with him.

On another note, I spoke with a mom tonight whose son met his wife at the age of 17-18. My friend and her DH didn't approve because the girl wasn't a Christian and because the couple wanted to live together very soon after meeting. The moved in together anyway, the girl got pregnant, my friend's DS and the girl married, and in the past 18 months, they have only seen their grandchild two times. The daughter-in-law is punishing them for not accepting her.

We can't violate our own morals, but what a heartbreak this situation could end up being!
  #45  
Old Jan 12, '12, 8:32 pm
BlueEyedLady BlueEyedLady is offline
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Default Re: Teen Premarital Sex

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Originally Posted by ArkansasMom View Post
Yes, I agree, we do want so much more for our children. And I agree that he needs to stop talking to his sister. She has already been through too much with all of this. That will be a major emphasis of our conversation with him.

On another note, I spoke with a mom tonight whose son met his wife at the age of 17-18. My friend and her DH didn't approve because the girl wasn't a Christian and because the couple wanted to live together very soon after meeting. The moved in together anyway, the girl got pregnant, my friend's DS and the girl married, and in the past 18 months, they have only seen their grandchild two times. The daughter-in-law is punishing them for not accepting her.

We can't violate our own morals, but what a heartbreak this situation could end up being!
In all fairness I wouldn't let my child be around people who are openly against not only me but my marriage. How could I trust someone like that not to try and turn my child against me or speak ill of me or my marriage? Why would I trust someone to be good with my child when they never showed me any kindness?
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