Teen Premarital Sex

[TheRealJuliane]

Originally Posted by ArkansasMom

Thank you for your continued prayers, and the hope you continue to give. I think of the 'Train up your child . . . " scripture often. When DS was little, I had a train with this scripture on it in his room.

Things have been calm, but only because I haven't brought up the continuous stream of 'coverup' lies he has been telling.

Each day, I just hold my breath and pray that he doesn't do something so stupid that he ends up out of the house.

Personally, I feel like I have just made the jump to just grieving the loss of the relationship we had and praying that God will help him see the light. Yes, keep those rosaries dedicated to the Luminous Mysteries coming! That will be my new dedication with each rosary, too. A wise woman I met with yesterday told me that this could last a very long time, that I just need to handle my end of it and pray. I feel like if he is still at home we at least have some influence.

I wish I knew how to guide his values/talk to him about what he's doing in a way that wouldn't make him close off to me again. We just don't have those close moments anymore, where really used to be able to talk. He makes sure he is gone as much as possible and then doesn't come out of his room.

Thanks again, folks . . . I've been leaning hard on you and appreciate your payers and input. I feel like I should be sending everyone cookies or something!

He is breaking away from you...He is doing it in a clumsy and stupid way, but he wants to fly the nest now. This is the first time you've had to go through this, and it will hurt every time, even if they are more subtle about how they do it. Lean on your husband, cry your tears in private, and treasure ALL the moments you have had with this child all the way up until now. But please do not write him off! This girl could break up with him at any time, or he could wake up from the spell at any time, and break it off with her. I thought my son was completely lost to me, he was hurting me on purpose and being a total jerk. But he turned TO me to pick up the pieces when his girlfriend broke his heart. He found out that ol' Mom knew a thing or two after all.

Journal your frustrations. Cry, and cry some more. He wants to grow up, and he will, he has to, even owning the bad decisions he makes.

[Cat]

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

He is breaking away from you...He is doing it in a clumsy and stupid way, but he wants to fly the nest now. This is the first time you've had to go through this, and it will hurt every time, even if they are more subtle about how they do it. Lean on your husband, cry your tears in private, and treasure ALL the moments you have had with this child all the way up until now. But please do not write him off! This girl could break up with him at any time, or he could wake up from the spell at any time, and break it off with her. I thought my son was completely lost to me, he was hurting me on purpose and being a total jerk. But he turned TO me to pick up the pieces when his girlfriend broke his heart. He found out that ol' Mom knew a thing or two after all.

Journal your frustrations. Cry, and cry some more. He wants to grow up, and he will, he has to, even owning the bad decisions he makes.

This is really good advice, especially the part about not writing him off.

Be really careful about your words. Try not to say too much, because when things get better between you and your son, he (and you) will still remember and still be hurt by any harsh words that never should have been said, e.g., if you happen to scream, "I wish you had never been born."

These kind of words or phrases hurt forever, even if you really didn't mean them, and regret them the instant you say them.

[TheRealJuliane]

Originally Posted by Cat

This is really good advice, especially the part about not writing him off.

Be really careful about your words. Try not to say too much, because when things get better between you and your son, he (and you) will still remember and still be hurt by any harsh words that never should have been said, e.g., if you happen to scream, "I wish you had never been born."

These kind of words or phrases hurt forever, even if you really didn't mean them, and regret them the instant you say them.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

One Sunday in Mass, I passed the collection basket the wrong way, and my DH whispererd "stupid" under his breath at me. It was like sticking a sword into me. I realized at that moment all the painful words that I had said to my son over the years, and how much I must have hurt him. I came home, got some nails and a large board from the garage, and pounded about 25 nails into that board. I was thinking about this story ...

There once was a little boy who had a bad temper. His father gave him a bag of nails and told him that every time he lost his temper, he must hammer a nail into the back of the fence. The first day the boy had driven 37 nails into the fence. Over the next few weeks, as he learned to control his anger, the number of nails hammered daily gradually dwindled down. He discovered it was easier to hold his temper than to drive those nails into the fence.

Finally the day came when the boy didn't lose his temper at all. He told his father about it and the father suggested that the boy now pull out one nail for each day that he was able to hold his temper. The days passed and the young boy was finally able to tell his father that all the nails were gone.

The father took his son by the hand and led him to the fence. He said, "You have done well, my son, but look at the holes in the fence. The fence will never be the same. When you say things in anger, they leave a scar just like this one. You can put a knife in a man and draw it out. It won't matter how many times you say I'm sorry, the wound is still there."

I put the board with the nails in it in front of my kitchen window, so whenever I was tempted to use hurtful words with my son, I would see it and remember how hurt I was when my husband called me "stupid." My original intention was to put pretty ribbons on each nail every time I said something nice to my son, but ... I haven't done that. I mean, I have said nice things, I just kinda forgot to buy the ribbons.

[ArkansasMom]

What a touching analogy, thank you for that visual reminder. You are so right, and I have definitely said my share of words in anger. I dediced, going into New Year's Eve, that I would not be pushed to anger/saying things I would regret, any more. And I haven't. But, even when I don't say things in anger, when I just speak, my DS can turn anything around to seem like I am trying to hurt him. So, I have found that I can't just avoid speaking in anger, but I have to very carefully choose what I say about anything. Anything!

In the car yesterday (remember he lost driving priveleges so he's paying me $8.00 an hour to drive him . . . oh, and my husband and I are going to the movies tonight with our 'earnings' from the week!!)
Okay, so in the car yesterday I asked him some general questions, like, "Have you talked to so and so lately?" He angrily said, "I know what you're getting at!" He has pulled away from his old friends who don't want to be around the GF and the drama . . . and he's starting to figure it out!

He was very angry with me that I will not let him take his college $$ out of his savings account. He reminded me how much he hates living at home, that we have trapped him because he doesn't have a car of his own and can't move out becase of it, that he can't afford to move out and we know it. He reminded me of how awful it is to live with us. I gently told him that everyone is ready to leave by now, everyone his age is dying to get out and move on with their lives in school, etc. He said, "Yeah, but noone's parents are as awful as you guys are." Ouch . . . but, with my new and improved knowledge . . . expected.

He did come home last night (no friends to hang out with, don't know where GF was) and he was actually in a good mood. Hanging on through the weekend . . . 126 days till graduation (oops, hate to admit that I'm counting down!!)

BTW, do you know the name of that behavioral camp in the Ozarks? My husband was intrigued and we're in the region . . .

[TheRealJuliane]

I sent you a PM, there's too much to put here.

Just please think/pray a lot about doing something like that. I would say you are nowhere near where we were with our son. If I told you everything, your face would be



It really was our next to the last resort, and the last resort was removing him from our home. What can you do when you 16 year old tells you to your face that he will NOT follow your rules?

[ArkansasMom]

Thanks for the info., we'll take all that you've said about the camp under consideration.
The behavioral issues have muted somewhat since my DH took over many of the conversations/discussions with our son. I give him information about different things, including the lies I've discovered, certain follow-up items, calls, college planning issues that need to be addressed.

Last night, my DS told me that my DD's shirt at school was too low, that she is hanging around a young man with a bad reputation, and that he got his reputation by sleeping with multiple girls. I just looked at him at said, "You need to be very careful about what you are saying. Your GF wears clothing with very low necklines and has the same reputation. Be careful what you are saying to your sister . . . " and by then, he was out of the room. The truth hurts, and that is what it is. Later I tried to read Sacred Scripture to him addressing sins of the body, and he left the room. My husband and I argued about my approach, and I told him that it is just killing me that he is living in our home and continuing with this relationship and their activities, and then acting virtuous in criticizing our DD. (Not that I don't agree that her shirt was too low, but you know what I'm saying.)

I don't ask about his time with his GF, I don't engage in their lives or activities, and I have to do that to keep from saying things like above. I am only engaged from a 'religion' and 'financial' perspective (making sure he's still saving for college, filing FAFSA, doing taxes, etc.) for him, and I prefer that. He has needed his Dad to prod him toward adulthood for a long time, and finally it is happening.

At the advice of another poster, I have started a journal and have requested counseling. Mostly, I have started something that I want to share with my Godly friends and ask your thoughts on something. Here it goes.

I came across an old book of mine, "In His Steps," by Charles Sheldon. Essentially, the book is about considering how Christ would act in a situation before doing ANYTHING. (I feel like so many of my reactions in this situation have included anger and have been judgemental and/or impatient or insensitive, and I want to focus on becoming more Christlike in my responses.) I started to re-read the book and considered the committment of the characters to do this for one year. I made the committment to start it now and continue it through Lent. My committment is this:, before I do ANYTHING, spend money, make a comment, make a decision of any kind, that I will consider what Christ would do. (You know, WWJD?) So....I got up early and sat with my bible, re-acquainting myself with how Christ said we should conduct ourselves, who Christ reacted in different situations, and trying to determine how he would act if He was living my life right now. So, I started with Matthew and the Sermon on the Mount.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ addresses judging. In my Catholic bible, it says, "Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?" Matthew 7:1-3. The brief description of this says, "This is not a prohibition against recognizing the faults of others, but against passing judgment in a spirit of arrogance."

DS's girlfriend acknowledged on F'Book that she is agnostic, with her own value system. She told my DS that she was baptized at a camp 5 years ago, and has not gone to church because she hasn't found one she likes. (But doesn't attend church to find one.) She considers us judgemental because we don't like her past (or current) sexual behavior, defiant attitude, constant criticisms of us and our parenting (including an initial reaming calling us religious hypocrites on Facebook), and the continuous stream of lies and manipulations that has been coming from her and our son. I can't separate the 'identifying the fault of others' and 'the judging' when it comes to this situation. Any thoughts here? And am I supposed to be okay with this behavior even though it is happening while my son lives in our home and my son is participating in it? I am tangled in my ability to see this clearly, and I sincerely want to follow Christ's teachings and adjust my attitude/thoughts on this. Am I wrong to say this is wrong and to try to teach my son it is wrong? Isn't that judging? I am angered by the way his value system has changed and just don't even want to try to accept her acknowledging that she is the impetus for that change? Isn't that being unforgiving? Shouldn't I try to convert the sinner? Didn't Christ mingle with the tax collector? I have no desire to mingle in her life, to be a part of their relationship, to take pictures when they go to Homecoming, to hold a Post-Prom picture . . . all things we would have loved to have been a part of with him if he would have chosen a Christ-serving, God-loving, respectful, adjusted young woman.
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated!

[domandcarols]

It's a good sign and very sweet (in my opinion) that he shows concern towards his sister. If I were you I would actually let him be protective over her and not discourage it even if he's being hypocritical. He will see that on his own without you saying anything. Girlfriends come and go but sisters are forever. You're doing the right thing, just keep it up and remember never to betray any emotions. Just set a policy of not approving of the girlfriend and leave it at that. Still praying for you and your family. You sound like a really great mommy. He'll thank you in 20 years.

[TheRealJuliane]

Okay, I will give you my thoughts.

First, only Jesus was Jesus! We do not have His perfection when it comes to conviction of sin! Only He could act as He did on earth, reaching sinners with just a few words, a glance, or a touch. He was God!

I would not focus solely on that passage, it causes a lot of Christians to make mistakes. We are to judge SIN, but not in arrogance. It is just fine to look at someone and see the sins they are committing. We are not to condemn the PERSON however. Have you tried praying for this girl? I mean, REALLY praying, not just that she would leave your son alone, but that she would be led to faith? I know when I am resentful of anyone, praying for them is hard, very hard to do, but also greatly benefits me because my viewpoint is shifted. This girl may have NO ONE in her life who prays for her.

Don't try to read Scripture to your son. Don't lecture him on anything he is doing. Maintain a cheerful countenance. Let your husband take control of your son. It is the best thing that could happen. Things could turn around at any point.

This is a great book, you may already have it, it's not Catholic but the prayers are very handy to use (plus the OF and HM!).

The Power of a Praying Parent

It has topics to pray for, including friends and chastity.

[HouseArrest]

Judging means deciding whether a person is going to go to hell or heaven. It is not appropriate to judge a person's soul, however it is appropriate to judge actions.

People judge actions all the time. Doesn't almost every employee have a year end performance review? Is that judging the person? No, it is a report of how a person is carrying out his assigned tasks.

It might help if in discussing his girlfriend, you do not say you don't like her, rather, you don't like her behavior. If you don't like what happened last Saturday night for example, say, "I don't like the fact that you arrived home at 4am.", not "I don't like that girl, you came home at 4am."

[BlueEyedLady]

I wasn't going to post again but this has been on my mind for over a week now. I was in your son's girlfriend's position for 5 years. I had a ring and everything. Yes, I could have handled things differently, and yes, I did make some mistakes, but I was 16-21, my boyfriend/fiance's mom was the real adult, and she never stepped up. I dated my high school boyfriend and right from the start his mom didn't like me. I had different values, interests, and opinions than she did. My family was more liberal, and my shirts were a little too low cut. But her son and I laughed together, we talked, we had a lot in common, we boosted each other up, and we made each other happy. She of course only saw the "bad" in me, never the good. Eventually, I graduated high school and then went to college near him. A year later, we got an apartment together. During this time he pulled away from her as hard as he possibly could. Why? Because he loved me. She had no interest in spending time with me, getting to know me, finding common ground, or taking an interest in our relationship. When he asked me to marry him she cried for all the wrong reasons. So he stopped calling her and going up to see her. He started lying-constantly. His mom was just too much to deal with. Because he loved me and she put forth no effort, he got to see exactly what kind of person she really was. She blamed me for his pulling away, she blamed me for his lies, and she blamed me for him not calling. What she didn't know was that the only reason he would stop by and see her when he was in town is because I would throw a fit if he didn't. The only reason he called on Mother's Day and her birthday is because I handed him the phone and begged him to. She didn't know this though. She only knew that her son was with someone that she didn't like and that he wasn't calling. So of course, this was my fault.

Long story short, after 5 years we broke up because he was gay. But we continued to live as roommates for another 4 years, To this day he is my best friend. My children will call him 'uncle' and my mom calls him 'son'. He spends every major holiday with my family, and when he is in our hometown he stays with my parents, not his. Even if I'm not there. Guess what? He still doesn't call or visit his parents often, and when he does, he's miserable, and they can tell that he rather wouldn't. And guess what? Although I'm engaged to be married to someone else and we no longer live together, they STILL blame me. But it wasn't that I was manipulating him, it was that he loved me and I was important to him, and they were insistent that they weren't going to try. In fact, they wanted nothing more than for him to leave me, and they made that clear. They had a million reasons why I wasn't good for him, but since they weren't in our relationship, they really had no idea what went on.

Of course I had feelings of anger and resentment towards them. And no, I wasn't always as friendly as I should have been. But I was in my teens/very early 20's, they made it clear they hated me, and I didn't have the knowledge or maturity to deal with the situation correctly. They were the adults though. If they had stepped up and been an example of how you treat people even when you don't like them, especially for the sake of their son, it would have given me something to go off of. In all reality, I was just a kid.

[BlueEyedLady]

When you blame her for his lies, bad decisions, and poor attitude you are saying to him that he can't make his own decisions, and that his actions are not his own. You are undermining his new found adulthood and independence, and it's patronizing and emasculating. He is making his own decisions. Hopefully someday he will realize that they are wrong, but either way, they are his. Don't hold her responsible.

As for calling you a religious hypocrite. No, she should not be posting such things on Facebook, but she is an 18 year old, and that's what people do these days. That poor judgment aside though, from her perspective, you are. Rather than trying to guide and help them you are trying to convince your son that she's not good enough. The way she sees it you are called to love everyone, but you seem to want to exclude her from that.

Even if he does leave her, there is no guarantee that he will choose a chaste Catholic girl. In fact, statistically speaking that isn't very likely. You have to be ready to accept whoever he loves, because someday he may marry one of them. You don't want to have a poor relationship with the mother of your grandchildren because you always wanted him to marry someone of a different faith than the one that she has. For the sake of your son, you, and his future wife and kids you have to, as hard as it is, try to find common ground with the girls he dates.

And finally, I am engaged to the son of the most devout Catholic woman I have ever met. I spent 2 years working for Planned Parenthood, I don't believe in god, my best friend (see above post) is a gay man and I am one of his many references as he is working on adopting a child. Clearly, we have some differences. But why is it that this woman can open up her home and family to me, welcome me, put forth so much effort in getting to know me, doing lunch and talking for hours, and you can't even put in 1/10 of that effort with your son's girlfriend? Despite our glaring differences, we really do have a lot in common, and we always have a lot of fun when we hang out. It's a matter of showing each other mutual respect, and honoring the other's place in my fiance/her son's life. Despite our differences, as the more mature one she reached out to me first. Not only is she the most devout Catholic I know, she is also one of the most selfless and loving people in the world too. I make her son happy, and while I'm sure she prays for my conversion every night and that there are 1,000 things she wishes were different about me, she has pretty much guaranteed that she will always have a very honored place in our family and with our future children.

[Irish Girl 68]

ArkansasMom: I think Blue Eyed Lady brings up an interesting point in her post...do you think you could reach out to your son's girlfriend? No, she doesn't sound nice, but is it possible that defiance of your values is just masking her own hurt from things she's done? You don't like the fact she's disrespectful and that's understandable. But, I can also see where a young girl who has made poor decisions might be defensive and feel judged. Many things you've said indicate she might not have been raised by people who care for her or give a darn about what she does. You, then, have a chance to bring Jesus to her. Not, perhaps in going to Mass or by praying together but by simply showing a sense of hospitality and kindness. I think it's possible to do that without agreeing with her choices or lifestyle. Given their ages I highly doubt this is a permanent relationship. I do think demonstrating that you love your son enough to be kind in this situation would send a very powerful message.

[francisca]

ArkansasMom,

I have a cousin (male, a lot older than me, because my father is the youngest of 10 siblings) whose son was 18 when his girl friend (I think she was one year younger) got pregnant. My cousin allowed him to marry her. They are catholics. But the priest refused because he (the priest) thought that the marriage seemed to have little foundation (the fact that they were teen, and that the marriage merely because of the pregnancy). Anyway, my cousin get them married civily, plus a simple wedding party too. His son has to quit school and find a job immediately. After civil marriage, the boy and his wife live with his parents (my cousin and his wife).

They got their marriage sacrament last year, after five year of the civil marriage. They have twin sons (6 year olds). I can see that they are doing OK. The boy has turned into a man, and I heard his job now is quite alright considering he did not even finish high school.

In contrast I have a younger brother (4 year younger than me) who hasn't got married until today. To tell you the truth, I would prefer my son to marry young like my nephew than to become like his uncle who refuse to be responsible in all things, has no sense of purpose in life until now he act like he is still teen and hs no stable job.

Another case was my friend's brother who got married a lot earlier than her (my friend) because he was also a case of teen pregnancy. They are still married until today.

I remembered my first love. I was 12, it was a friendship with a bit of infatuation. We held hands (no sex, we weren't so daring in the past, unlike nowadays. We had never hugged, only held hands). Anyway he lived in different city so we wrote letters until we were 20 year olds. He decided to study in Germany so we couldn't meet anymore so the letters subsided. I compared my boyfirends with him. He was like a form of ideal in my heart. I just thought if only I could marry during teen, I would have married him.

ArkansasMom,

Eventhough there are cases where teen marriage ends in failure, at this point of time, your son need your support, so that he can become a mature, responsible man, and who knows, she could be the love of his life. Considering this possiblity, it's not wise to continue to have hard feelings toward his choice.

In the past, many-many people married in their teen, and be happy in their life long marriage.

[1inICXC]

This has been an exceedingly insightful thread, perhaps because of such consistent follow-up from AMom among other things, i just hope to remember all this incredibly wise and practical advice in 10 years when I get there...

I don't have much to add to what has been said except a liitle something I came across in the Encyclical " Familiaris Consortio "( JP II) where parents are encouraged to bear with spiritual courage and serenity the trials that accompany the education of children. He also talked about how all the Apostles left Jesus, so for all of us constantly wondering what WE did wrong, I think it is somewhat comforting to realize that even the most perfect Teacher of all also had His follows turn their backs, temporarily....

Hope you are hanging in there AMom and I thank you all, who contributed! Once again, I hope this thread will be accessible 10 years from now- and I would've personally needed it, very badly, 10 years ago!
I'm praying for a happy ending!

[ArkansasMom]

I really appreciate everyone’s comments. I have seriously considered what you have said, BlueEyed, and I understand what you are saying. I don’t want you to think that I am just a devout whatever sitting behind the law, not practicing what I preach. I truly want to be a loving witness of Christ's love to everyone that I come across in my life. I have lived my life trying to do this, through my work with my children, volunteering, activities in my church/community. It has been gnawing at me for some time that I struggle with opening my heart to this girl. After much contemplation, I have come to two conclusions for why it has been so hard. First, the extreme change in behavior that has come with my son’s relationship with the girl and the intense destruction of our family connections that accompanied it, and second, our frustration with both my DS and the GF’s behavior within the relationship.
Going back 3 ½ months, we watched our son undergo a behavioral change overnight. He changed from a sweet, kind, mild-mannered, easy-going young man to a beligerant, defiant, angry, lying, rebellious young man. We were concerned he was experiencing mental illness or using drugs/alcohol. We now understand that he wanted to ‘break out,’ have more freedom, control over decisions, etc., as part of growing into adulthood and independence. He simply did not/does not communicate for what he needs, and his method is to run away when he gets angry. He has left for 1-2 days, and, once, four days. Once, we had to contact the police to file a missing persons report because he left after an argument and would not communicate with us to let us know where he was. He is dying to be out of our house and away from his ‘judgmental’ family.
Now introduce a relationship with a defiant young woman sporting a Mohawk, multiple piercings, crude postings w/sexual content, foul language on various social media, and a rebellious attitude that multiple adults in the community/friends of my DS have relayed concern about. There is deviant sexual behavior, promiscuous behavior, etc., in the girl’s past, etc. Within two weeks of dating, he was texting her that he ‘loved her no matter what his mom said’, within six weeks he was no longer a virgin. The once super-close relationship he had with my DH and me is strained. He lies constantly, and, yes, those are HIS lies, but she has also lied to her mom about a number of things related to their relationship, as well. He almost seems addicted to this girl.
So, we have always said that we our main concern is guiding him to transition into adulthood, to help him learn to be an adult: stop blaming others for everything that goes wrong in his life, maintain emotional consistency, take responsibility for planning for his future and saving for college, learn to negotiate for his wants/needs in the household, pursue his education with focus, etc. etc.
The girlfriend issue has been what we consider a ‘sub-issue.’ It is annoying, disappointing, a constant hassle. But, it is also a perfect paradigm for how he is failing to transition to adulthood The relationship is based on rebellion, defiance. He is not honest and mature within the relationship: he has lied/lies about multiple details of his GF, her life, what they do together. They maintain an "us vs. the adults" mentality. If something goes wrong in their lives, they blame everyone around them. He makes compromises in his morals, his values, his spiritual life, and has strained friendships and family relationships in pursuit of this relationship. They won't test for STDs or each other's safety, and are sexually active although they have no means to support a child that could result. At two months of dating they determined that they'd like to marry, and are trying to figure out how to move in together. In other words, they have acted defiantly, impetuously, and without a clear acknowledgement of reality, because they are teenagers.
So, it is a classic teenage romance, maybe it will last, maybe it won't. If it lasts,we will have to consider our feelings. Certainly, we don't want to lost contact with our son. (continued in next post . . . )