Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Eastern Catholicism
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #16  
Old Jan 14, '12, 8:56 am
Qatrinius Qatrinius is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2011
Posts: 6
Religion: Orthodox
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

The Rite of St. Tikhon is essentially the Tridentine Rite with certain elements of the Scottish Prayer Book tradition interpolated. Put another way, it's a way of celebrating the classic Western Mass that honors some of the unique concentrations of the Anglican heritage.

It's not Protestant or Reformed, it's not even really "post-Schism" unless you take that to mean that certain ways of wording things were from later centuries, but what does that really matter? In fact, the Tikhonian Rite preserves some very ancient elements of the Western Catholic tradition that, to my knowledge, you cannot find anywhere else. We can't even put a solid date on the "schism" so using that as some kind of contrived measuring stick is really muddy anyway.

Those concerned about division should not be worried as the establishment of the Western Rite Vicariate was an ecumenical move. It was not "sheep stealing" nor is it designed to entice anyone from their communions. It was a way of saying the Orthodox Church (at least from Antioch's perspective) is prepared to do what's necessary to bring about reunion with Catholic-minded Christians.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old Jan 14, '12, 10:20 am
malphono malphono is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2008
Posts: 7,429
Religion: Syro-Maronite (trisat shoubho)
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
This is because there were a plethora of western churches. They were not one Sui Iuris church.

Western Christianity was organized into synods, just like the east.
While it is true that the West was organized into synods, and while it is also true that what I'll call the Primatial Provinces were self-governing, whether they would be considered separate "Churches sui juris" in today's terms is debatable.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Jan 14, '12, 10:33 am
dvdjs dvdjs is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2007
Posts: 2,360
Religion: Byzantine Catholic
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes View Post
... The Mass as celebrated in Rome was not imposed throughout the entire Roman Patriarchate until the Council of Trent in the late 16th Century. And even then, from what I've read ...
What are you reading? Evidently not, Quo Primum.

Quote:
This new rite alone is to be used unless approval of the practice of saying Mass differently was given at the very time of the institution and confirmation of the church by Apostolic See at least 200 years ago, or unless there has prevailed a custom of a similar kind which has been continuously followed for a period of not less than 200 years, in which most cases We in no wise rescind their above-mentioned prerogative or custom. However, if this Missal, which we have seen fit to publish, be more agreeable to these latter, We grant them permission to celebrate Mass according to its rite, provided they have the consent of their bishop or prelate or of their whole Chapter, everything else to the contrary notwithstanding.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Jan 14, '12, 10:54 am
twf twf is online now
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Posts: 3,078
Religion: Catholic (former Evangelical Protestant)
Send a message via MSN to twf
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

Quote:
Originally Posted by malphono View Post
While it is true that the West was organized into synods, and while it is also true that what I'll call the Primatial Provinces were self-governing, whether they would be considered separate "Churches sui juris" in today's terms is debatable.
Even today the national episcopal conferences enjoy a certain degree of autonomy within the Latin Church. Yes major decisions must be ratified by Rome - but then the election of the primates of autonomous churches in E Orthodoxy requires ratification from the mother Church as well. Between national Latin churches you will find different fasting requirements, different local calendars, different norms for liturgical postures etc. Devotional practices among the Latin faithful vary to an immense degree from nation to nation. I'm currently working in the Dominican Republic and have noticed a number of differences. The two biggest Marian feasts here, for example, are Our Lady of Mercy and Our Lady of Altagracia - neither of which are celebrated back home. In near by Nicaragua the Immaculate Conception is the major Marian feast while back home it is the solemnity of the Mother of God (jan 1). Holy days of obligation vary accordingly. I'm used to remaining kneeling throughout the Eucharistic prayer but here the norm is to kneel only during the consecration itself. The local bishops make local decisions on a number of topics. The Latin Church isn't micromanaged by Rome as some seem to think.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Jan 14, '12, 11:25 am
malphono malphono is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2008
Posts: 7,429
Religion: Syro-Maronite (trisat shoubho)
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

Quote:
Originally Posted by twf View Post
Even today the national episcopal conferences enjoy a certain degree of autonomy within the Latin Church. Yes major decisions must be ratified by Rome - but then the election of the primates of autonomous churches in E Orthodoxy requires ratification from the mother Church as well. Between national Latin churches you will find different fasting requirements, different local calendars, different norms for liturgical postures etc. Devotional practices among the Latin faithful vary to an immense degree from nation to nation. I'm currently working in the Dominican Republic and have noticed a number of differences. The two biggest Marian feasts here, for example, are Our Lady of Mercy and Our Lady of Altagracia - neither of which are celebrated back home. In near by Nicaragua the Immaculate Conception is the major Marian feast while back home it is the solemnity of the Mother of God (jan 1). Holy days of obligation vary accordingly. I'm used to remaining kneeling throughout the Eucharistic prayer but here the norm is to kneel only during the consecration itself. The local bishops make local decisions on a number of topics. The Latin Church isn't micromanaged by Rome as some seem to think.
Yes, I'm well aware of that, but those post-conciliar so-called "national conferences" are a far cry from the Primatial Provinces of the 1st Millennium. In matter of fact, those "conferences" really don't have any more "authority" than did their forebearers (i.e. the severely weakened Provincial synods of the pre-conciliar era). Although it did further weaken what were the already anemic prerogatives of the Primatial Sees, it basically amounts to little more than a name change.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Jan 14, '12, 5:55 pm
John of Patmos's Avatar
John of Patmos John of Patmos is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: November 13, 2011
Posts: 568
Religion: Orthodox Christian
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

I appreciate the Western Rite of the Orthodox church. Another step towards unity?
__________________
Κύριε Ιησού Χριστέ ελέησόν με

Orthodox Christian as of November 2013. Previous posts may not reflect this.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Jan 14, '12, 10:07 pm
ThatOneGuy92 ThatOneGuy92 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2011
Posts: 468
Religion: Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

Quote:
Originally Posted by John of Patmos View Post
I appreciate the Western Rite of the Orthodox church. Another step towards unity?
Perhaps in the long run. Only time will tell.
__________________
Sincerely your brother in Christ,
Tim

"I cannot persuade myself that without love to others, and without, as far as rests with me, peaceableness towards all, I can be called a worthy servant of Jesus Christ."
- St. Basil the Great
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Jan 15, '12, 7:17 am
John of Patmos's Avatar
John of Patmos John of Patmos is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: November 13, 2011
Posts: 568
Religion: Orthodox Christian
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

I hope. I know some Orthodox dislike the whole idea of a western rite, claiming it is not, well...orthodox.
__________________
Κύριε Ιησού Χριστέ ελέησόν με

Orthodox Christian as of November 2013. Previous posts may not reflect this.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Jan 15, '12, 5:29 pm
Jacob Loyd Jacob Loyd is offline
Trial Membership
 
Join Date: January 14, 2012
Posts: 8
Religion: Chalcedonian Orthodox
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

Quote:
Originally Posted by John of Patmos View Post
I hope. I know some Orthodox dislike the whole idea of a western rite, claiming it is not, well...orthodox.
I think the Orthodox you are referring to are more so found within any Greek parish. The Slavic Churches are much more accepting and willing to be ecumenical. Of course both of these sides are important, the Greeks help the Church to avoid accepting churches into communion that don't have the same essential dogma (which is one of the reasons the filolique and papal infallibility have been and are often thorns when Rome and the Orthodox speak of communion). However, they are also a hindrance, especially in relations with the Oriental Churches (last I read, the Russians were willing to receive the Oriental Churches back into communion since they had use of different terminologies).

More so on the topic of this thread, I believe that Western Rite Orthodox parishes are one of the means of future reconciliation with Western Christianity. This is one of the ways to help us deal with our problems with one another.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Jan 15, '12, 7:30 pm
Nine_Two's Avatar
Nine_Two Nine_Two is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2009
Posts: 6,162
Religion: Orthodox
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

As far as I know, only ROCOR and the Antiochan Archdiocese have Western Rite Parishes, and I've read some harsh things about the Western Rite from members of those juristictions. I'm not sure there is any real pattern to their acceptance.
__________________
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. - C.S. Lewis

"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." - Douglas Adams
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Jan 15, '12, 7:59 pm
jwinch2 jwinch2 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: January 10, 2011
Posts: 6,875
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

http://www.westernorthodox.com/

http://www.stlukespriory.com/

A place for those who may be interested in learning more...


Peace,
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Jan 18, '12, 2:34 am
TarkanAttila's Avatar
TarkanAttila TarkanAttila is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 9, 2010
Posts: 1,761
Religion: Critical-Thinking Catholic
Send a message via Skype™ to TarkanAttila
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

I attended the Divine Liturgy of St. Tikhon (which apparently is the one St. Vincent's does, not st. Gregory) last Sunday. I do believe it's an improvement on the Ordinary Form (not that I'll leave the Holy Catholic Church for it! ), and that the Western Rite may do much to soften the hearts of the Eastern Orthodox Churches. The Anglicans and their progeny in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches may be pivotal in reuniting Rome and Constantinople. Because, for the first time in 1900 years (100 years ago), the Orthodox have allowed their theology to be explained in Western terms. They may be more understanding of Rome's way of thinking now.

I got a good feeling about this.
__________________
Increase the population of Saint Gilbert, named after G.K. Chesterton.
Rest, my child. I think no worse of thee. You meant no harm. But return to your true nature. Be free, my child! I remember your true face!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old Jan 18, '12, 6:44 am
jwinch2 jwinch2 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: January 10, 2011
Posts: 6,875
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

Quote:
Originally Posted by TarkanAttila View Post
The Anglicans and their progeny in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches may be pivotal in reuniting Rome and Constantinople. Because, for the first time in 1900 years (100 years ago), the Orthodox have allowed their theology to be explained in Western terms.
Interesting point. Thanks for sharing that.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old Jan 19, '12, 7:52 pm
ThatOneGuy92 ThatOneGuy92 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2011
Posts: 468
Religion: Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

Quote:
Originally Posted by TarkanAttila View Post
I attended the Divine Liturgy of St. Tikhon (which apparently is the one St. Vincent's does, not st. Gregory) last Sunday. I do believe it's an improvement on the Ordinary Form (not that I'll leave the Holy Catholic Church for it! ), and that the Western Rite may do much to soften the hearts of the Eastern Orthodox Churches. The Anglicans and their progeny in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches may be pivotal in reuniting Rome and Constantinople. Because, for the first time in 1900 years (100 years ago), the Orthodox have allowed their theology to be explained in Western terms. They may be more understanding of Rome's way of thinking now.

I got a good feeling about this.
You know, I've been curious about St. Vincent's for some time now. Next time I'm in Omaha, I'll have to check it out
__________________
Sincerely your brother in Christ,
Tim

"I cannot persuade myself that without love to others, and without, as far as rests with me, peaceableness towards all, I can be called a worthy servant of Jesus Christ."
- St. Basil the Great
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old Jan 20, '12, 7:15 pm
Searching Heart Searching Heart is offline
Trial Membership
 
Join Date: January 3, 2012
Posts: 7
Religion: Orthodox in Chrismation, Catholic in belief and hope
Default Re: Western-Rite Orthodox

"Western-rite Orthodoxy is largely an ecclesiastical anomaly, the creation of a new church which no historic foundation."

Thus it may be according to our understanding, while seeking - whether directly or cloaked within the covering of the Blessed Trinity - unity, for which Christ, Himself, prayed.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Eastern Catholicism

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8570Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: SueZee
5242CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: tawny
4436Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3898Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: DesertSister62
3876SOLITUDE
Last by: tuscany
3465Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3318Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3237Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3172For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: SueZee



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 4:01 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.