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  #61  
Old Jan 16, '12, 2:13 pm
Della Della is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

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Originally Posted by parable1 View Post
So then explain to me then this. If as a catholic I only go to my Savior to confess my sins I am not fully forgiven because I have to go thru a mediator here on earth to gain acess to Him?
Not quite. It's "both/and" not "either/or". For all venial sins we are absolved through private prayer, the penitential rite, and by receiving the Eucharist. For mortal sins we must go to a priest, unless it is impossible for us to do so. In that case, a perfect act of contrition will suffice, but we are not to presume upon God's mercy by avoiding confession when he established it for our benefit. It's like telling him he needn't have bothered--that we don't need the sacrament Christ gave us to heal us and ensure our salvation. Not a very grateful attitude for any Christian to adopt (not saying that's you, just saying we ought not to shove God's gifts in his face like petulant children who don't want a toy).

Quote:
I understand being catholic for 50 odd years what the ccc and tradition says but it just seems that this point seems a very focal point for catholics and protestants as well.
It's a focal point because some of our Protestant brethren reject confession. Many do have it, though: Anglicans, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Orthodox, and most other liturgical Christian bodies. It's those that have also rejected liturgy that have usually aslo rejected most Catholic teaching, accepting only those parts they want to believe. God never asked us to accept what we want to believe but to accept what is true.
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  #62  
Old Jan 16, '12, 2:17 pm
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parable1 parable1 is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

So then by what I am reading better to go to a priest because he can tell if your sincere in what you are seeking but Christ doesnt know your heat well enough to do it Himself. Only then knowing your sins are forgiven because you have been told so and absolution has taken place then your sins are truly gone?
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  #63  
Old Jan 16, '12, 2:23 pm
Della Della is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

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Originally Posted by parable1 View Post
So then by what I am reading better to go to a priest because he can tell if your sincere in what you are seeking but Christ doesnt know your heat well enough to do it Himself. Only then knowing your sins are forgiven because you have been told so and absolution has taken place then your sins are truly gone?
God knows your heart, but do you? Really? And were you ordained to celebrate the sacraments or was the priest? The priest is the alter Christi. He hears our confession and acts for Christ. The priest also advises us as an outside disinterested party. We can all too easily deceive ourselves, even in prayer. But having to say our sins out loud to another human being puts another whole complexion on it. We hear our sins and have to acknowledge them for what they are--offenses against God and our fellow man. The Holy Spirit acts through the priest as he was ordained to do. Nowhere did Christ or the Apostles tell us that each and everyone of us was to be our own confessor.
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  #64  
Old Jan 16, '12, 2:40 pm
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

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Originally Posted by parable1 View Post
So then by what I am reading better to go to a priest because he can tell if your sincere in what you are seeking but Christ doesnt know your heat well enough to do it Himself. Only then knowing your sins are forgiven because you have been told so and absolution has taken place then your sins are truly gone?
Jesus instituted reconciliation through the Apostles and they were the first Bishops and Pope for His Church.

Quote:

“Peace be with you.”

When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.

[Jesus] said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so I send you.”

And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit.

Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
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  #65  
Old Jan 16, '12, 2:47 pm
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

Parable 1,

How can you contest Reconciliation? You may not enjoy speaking to Jesus through His priest, but that's how Jesus instituted His forgiveness within His Church.
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  #66  
Old Jan 16, '12, 2:55 pm
Buck Crosswhite Buck Crosswhite is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

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Originally Posted by parable1 View Post
So then explain to me then this. If as a catholic I only go to my Savior to confess my sins I am not fully forgiven because I have to go thru a mediator here on earth to gain acess to Him?
I understand being catholic for 50 odd years what the ccc and tradition says but it just seems that this point seems a very focal point for catholics and protestants as well.
If you don't go to confession to a priest you don't get forgiven. That's the way Jesus set up his church. If you don't believe it it doesn't matter to anyone except you when you die.
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  #67  
Old Jan 16, '12, 3:28 pm
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

Quote:
=Savior2012;8830739]I understand that, I am just saying there is no scripture saying sins can only be forgiven by a Priest. That is based in tradition not biblically
WRONG!

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [B ]If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."[/b]

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20 Verses 20 to 23]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. [B] As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." [/b] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

"AS the Father Sent me so too I God send you!" [MEANS} with Gods Power and authority.

Oh really?

Matt.10: 1-8 And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb'edee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay".

Matt. 28:16-20 "
[16] Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

So dear friend; DENY it if you want to BUT PLEASE do NOT claim that it is NOT in the Bible. PLEASE Go BACK and REAd MY Post # 19 for even more information

God Bless,
Pat
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  #68  
Old Jan 16, '12, 3:56 pm
Savior2012 Savior2012 is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

Using big bold words does not make up for your lack of substance and explicit biblical scripture stating a Priest must forgive sin. Once again that is based upon tradition.

Not saying that its wrong to do so either it may be 100% right to confess sins to a Priest, but its not biblical.







Quote:
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
WRONG!

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [B ]If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."[/b]

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20 Verses 20 to 23]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. [B] As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." [/b] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

"AS the Father Sent me so too I God send you!" [MEANS} with Gods Power and authority.

Oh really?

Matt.10: 1-8 And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb'edee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay".

Matt. 28:16-20 "
[16] Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

So dear friend; DENY it if you want to BUT PLEASE do NOT claim that it is NOT in the Bible. PLEASE Go BACK and REAd MY Post # 19 for even more information

God Bless,
Pat
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  #69  
Old Jan 16, '12, 4:01 pm
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nickybr38 nickybr38 is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

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Originally Posted by Savior2012 View Post
Using big bold words does not make up for your lack of substance and explicit biblical scripture stating a Priest must forgive sin. Once again that is based upon tradition.

Not saying that its wrong to do so either it may be 100% right to confess sins to a Priest, but its not biblical.


Nothing wrong with tradition.

The Bible itself sprung from oral tradition (the Old Testament at least) so I don't see how one could dismiss something simply on the basis that it is based on tradition.
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  #70  
Old Jan 16, '12, 4:06 pm
Tantum ergo Tantum ergo is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

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Originally Posted by nickybr38 View Post
Nothing wrong with tradition.

The Bible itself sprung from oral tradition (the Old Testament at least) so I don't see how one could dismiss something simply on the basis that it is based on tradition.
Plus, arguing that the Bible must say 'priest' (as though the scriptures referring to the disciples, in not calling them 'priests' in English, means that the scripture doesn't apply today) is sloppy reasoning. The Bible never refers to God as a Trinity explicitly, and never uses the word Trinity in English at all, but you'll notice most Protestants believe in the Trinity. Even though it is not explicit in the Bible.
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  #71  
Old Jan 16, '12, 4:07 pm
Savior2012 Savior2012 is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

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Originally Posted by nickybr38 View Post
Nothing wrong with tradition.

The Bible itself sprung from oral tradition (the Old Testament at least) so I don't see how one could dismiss something simply on the basis that it is based on tradition.
100% agree that Tradition is great!

Sometimes though we as Catholics are afraid to acknowledge what is biblical and what is tradition.


Tradition is a good thing
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  #72  
Old Jan 16, '12, 4:11 pm
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nickybr38 nickybr38 is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

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100% agree that Tradition is great!

Sometimes though we as Catholics are afraid to acknowledge what is biblical and what is tradition.


Tradition is a good thing
I think when a Catholic debates a Protestant they try to debate on the terms of the Protestant and Protestants tend to only accept things that are from the Bible. But I think Catholics need to meet Protestants where they are BUT also embrace their own traditions.

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying: This is a tradition.

When the Protestant scoffs we can always argue the point that tradition has a time honored place within the Jewish AND early Christian movements so why shouldn't it have a place of honor now?
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  #73  
Old Jan 16, '12, 4:31 pm
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nickybr38 nickybr38 is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

(Edited)

And that Bible verse can be 'interpreted' many ways. Clearly. Otherwise all Protestants would seek a priest for confession.
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Last edited by Michael Francis; Jan 16, '12 at 4:51 pm.
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  #74  
Old Jan 16, '12, 4:37 pm
Barbkw Barbkw is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

I for one, am sick of showing you in Scripture where Reconciliation through a priest was instituted by Jesus for His Church.

All that you do, is ignore the Scripture which we've given you.

Last edited by Michael Francis; Jan 16, '12 at 4:53 pm.
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  #75  
Old Jan 16, '12, 4:40 pm
Nate13 Nate13 is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Confessing to a priest not in the Bible

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Gee there is Catholicism at its finest.
Why don't you help all of us poor saps and explain how PJM's post in no way provides biblical support for the notion of priests forgiving sins? That's great if you got all this figured out, but most people use forums as a way to share their opinions with others, not brag about how they know it all already If you wish to keep your secret knowledge to yourself of how PJM's post in no way provides biblical support for the notion of the Sacrament of Reconciliation that's fine as well.

And just for the record here, is the idea of the Pope just "tradition" as well according to you?
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