Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Jan 16, '12, 7:44 am
irishcolleen45 irishcolleen45 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 26, 2007
Posts: 128
Religion: Catholic
Question In the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell

According to the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell when he died.

Last night my husband and I were discussing this with our adult son. Our son said at Jesus' death there were four stages of hell:
1st stage: Limbo
2nd stage: The bosom of Abraham and the patriarchs where all virtuous went at their death before Jesus came to release them
3rd stage: Purgatory
4th stage: Place of the damned.

Our son was told this at a recent catechism class he attended at his parish. He also said Limbo still exits and that the souls there will not get to heaven but it is a place of happiness. I thought I read recently that Limbo is not part of dogma or doctrine.

Has anyone heard of this?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Jan 16, '12, 9:09 am
GEddie GEddie is offline
Forum Elder
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 50,580
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: In the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell

Limbo is not Church doctrine, and the rest of it is pure speculation.

"Hell" as used in this context is not the place of spiritual punishment, but simply the place of the dead, Hebrew Sheol, Greek Hades. It is no more nor less than the venue of all dead human beings. As a dead human being, our LORD went there. As a Divine person HE let HIMself out.

ICXC NIKA
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Jan 16, '12, 9:20 am
DihydrogenOxide DihydrogenOxide is offline
Banned
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: November 28, 2009
Posts: 1,469
Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic Christian Papist =)
Default Re: In the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell

Yes. Limbo is a possibility talked about by some Church fathers about those infants who were not baptized but were not placed in hell.

Your son is correct. Although 1 of the 4 listed is now forever done away with, the possibility that there is a limbo is still there. St. Augustine and several other theologians have spoken about it. It's something the Church does not have a defined stand on.

Limbo of the Fathers, was a place, known as a prison, where those who had died, still in the friendship of God awaited their salvation by the Cross of Jesus. They could not enter heaven until he died for them, mending their relationship with the Father. Once Jesus had won their salvation, he descended to where they were and released them from their prison, allowing them to enter heaven.

Hell as the Church sees it, is the place of eternal damnation, and not the same idea as the hell spoken about in the Apostles' Creed. Jesus descended to the place of the limbo of the fathers.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Jan 16, '12, 10:16 am
TimothyH TimothyH is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2010
Posts: 9,210
Default Re: In the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell

I don't see purgatory as a stage of Hell.

Purgatory is a great gift of mercy given to us by God, where those who have died in God's friendship are purified so that they may function correctly in and enter heaven.

I would welcome correction however.


-Tim-
__________________
The beginning of the way, at the end of which you will find yourself completely carried away with love for Jesus, is a trusting love for Mary.
- St. Josemaria Escriva

I Ripped My Pants
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Jan 16, '12, 11:44 am
Gorgias Gorgias is offline
Regular Member
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: December 26, 2011
Posts: 4,034
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: In the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishcolleen45 View Post
According to the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell when he died.

Last night my husband and I were discussing this with our adult son. Our son said at Jesus' death there were four stages of hell:
1st stage: Limbo
2nd stage: The bosom of Abraham and the patriarchs where all virtuous went at their death before Jesus came to release them
3rd stage: Purgatory
4th stage: Place of the damned.

Our son was told this at a recent catechism class he attended at his parish. He also said Limbo still exits and that the souls there will not get to heaven but it is a place of happiness. I thought I read recently that Limbo is not part of dogma or doctrine.

Has anyone heard of this?
Hmm... this doesn't seem quite right. I think your son has mis-remembered what he heard (or it was presented inaccurately at the class).

As others have mentioned, "limbo" has been used in two different ways in Church history. The "limbo of the fathers" is the term used to describe the "place" that the "patriarchs (and) all virtuous went at their death before Jesus came to release them". So, already, we have the first two things your son listed.

(Incidentally, this "limbo of the fathers" is where Jesus went -- what the creed calls "hell" -- following His death, so that He could lead them to heaven. Once Jesus took all the virtuous souls from this place, it no longer had any function; so we say that it no longer exists.)

The second use of "limbo", as others have mentioned, is a theologian's hypothesis. It exists to answer the question, "if baptism is necessary, where do infants go to if they die before they were able to have been baptized?". Some have held that while they shouldn't be in hell, they can't go to heaven, either. The Church doesn't really hold to that idea these days, although (if memory serves) Pope Benedict has asked a Vatican committee to meet and come up with a recommendation on what to do with this idea. It doesn't make sense to say that it existed "at the time of Jesus' death", because it's tied up with the notion of baptism -- and at that point, no one had been baptized with the baptism of Jesus!

As others have mentioned, Purgatory is less "a stage of hell" as it is a waypoint on the way to heaven -- those who have been judged worthy of heaven, but who still require purification, are purified before entering heaven. this state of purification is known as "purgatory" -- it's the place where we're purged of our imperfections!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Jan 16, '12, 12:24 pm
ProtectorRoss ProtectorRoss is offline
Trial Membership
 
Join Date: January 4, 2012
Posts: 7
Religion: Buddhist
Default Re: In the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by DihydrogenOxide View Post
Yes. Limbo is a possibility talked about by some Church fathers about those infants who were not baptized but were not placed in hell.

Your son is correct. Although 1 of the 4 listed is now forever done away with, the possibility that there is a limbo is still there. St. Augustine and several other theologians have spoken about it. It's something the Church does not have a defined stand on.

Limbo of the Fathers, was a place, known as a prison, where those who had died, still in the friendship of God awaited their salvation by the Cross of Jesus. They could not enter heaven until he died for them, mending their relationship with the Father. Once Jesus had won their salvation, he descended to where they were and released them from their prison, allowing them to enter heaven.

Hell as the Church sees it, is the place of eternal damnation, and not the same idea as the hell spoken about in the Apostles' Creed. Jesus descended to the place of the limbo of the fathers.
Doesn't your Bible talk about Abraham and Moses and Elijah being in heaven before Jesus died?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Jan 16, '12, 12:34 pm
irishcolleen45 irishcolleen45 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 26, 2007
Posts: 128
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: In the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by DihydrogenOxide View Post
Yes. Limbo is a possibility talked about by some Church fathers about those infants who were not baptized but were not placed in hell.

Limbo of the Fathers, was a place, known as a prison, where those who had died, still in the friendship of God awaited their salvation by the Cross of Jesus. They could not enter heaven until he died for them, mending their relationship with the Father. Once Jesus had won their salvation, he descended to where they were and released them from their prison, allowing them to enter heaven.
My son said that those Jesus released from prison (Limbo of the Fathers) did not go to heaven until Jesus ascended to heaven. That Jesus brought them to heaven. I can understand that this could be true.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Jan 16, '12, 12:34 pm
graceandglory's Avatar
graceandglory graceandglory is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2007
Posts: 3,358
Religion: Catholic Revert (20 years evangelical)
Default Re: In the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell



When Jesus resurrected, those who had died and had been preached to "in hell" were also raised.
__________________
They will know we are Christians by our love.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Jan 16, '12, 12:40 pm
irishcolleen45 irishcolleen45 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 26, 2007
Posts: 128
Religion: Catholic
Question On the third day he rose again from the dead

From the Apostles' Creed: "on the third day he rose again from the dead".

I find this sentence very confusing. Didn't Jesus rise from the dead only once?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Jan 16, '12, 1:17 pm
DihydrogenOxide DihydrogenOxide is offline
Banned
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: November 28, 2009
Posts: 1,469
Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic Christian Papist =)
Default Re: On the third day he rose again from the dead

It's further pointing to the fact that Jesus descended into the "Limbo of the Fathers" and not the eternal damnation "hell".

He only did it once.

So, "he descended into hell (the abode of the dead/Sheol) and on the 3rd day rose.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Jan 16, '12, 1:17 pm
GEddie GEddie is offline
Forum Elder
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Posts: 50,580
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: On the third day he rose again from the dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishcolleen45 View Post
From the Apostles' Creed: "on the third day he rose again from the dead".

I find this sentence very confusing. Didn't Jesus rise from the dead only once?
"Again" simply meant that HE resumed HIS aliveness; it does not imply there was more than one rising.

ICXC NIKA
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Jan 16, '12, 1:24 pm
Phyllo's Avatar
Phyllo Phyllo is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 7, 2011
Posts: 500
Religion: catholic
Default Re: On the third day he rose again from the dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by irish colleen 45 View Post
From the Apostles' Creed: "on the third day he rose again from the dead".

I find this sentence very confusing. Didn't Jesus rise from the dead only once?
If you have a Catechism of the Catholic Church start reading on page 164 with paragraph 631. If you don't have a CCC you can find it on line. This should help answer your questions.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Jan 16, '12, 2:57 pm
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: January 26, 2008
Posts: 28,513
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: On the third day he rose again from the dead

It's the translation into English that's confusing.

Resurrexit indeed means rose again. And in Latin it's part of the verb, not the prepositional phrase.

Doesn't mean he rose again from the dead, though. It means this time the surrexit happened to be from the dead.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Jan 16, '12, 4:39 pm
DaveBj DaveBj is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 7,824
Religion: Catholic, Tiber Swim Team Class of 2005
Default Re: On the third day he rose again from the dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishcolleen45 View Post
From the Apostles' Creed: "on the third day he rose again from the dead".

I find this sentence very confusing. Didn't Jesus rise from the dead only once?
It's just a figure of speech in English. Don't try to make it walk on all fours.
__________________
Author of The Children of the Maker, Kindle Edition
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Jan 16, '12, 6:03 pm
thistle thistle is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: August 23, 2005
Posts: 20,144
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: In the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishcolleen45 View Post
According to the Apostle Creed, Jesus descended into hell when he died.

Last night my husband and I were discussing this with our adult son. Our son said at Jesus' death there were four stages of hell:
1st stage: Limbo
2nd stage: The bosom of Abraham and the patriarchs where all virtuous went at their death before Jesus came to release them
3rd stage: Purgatory
4th stage: Place of the damned.

Our son was told this at a recent catechism class he attended at his parish. He also said Limbo still exits and that the souls there will not get to heaven but it is a place of happiness. I thought I read recently that Limbo is not part of dogma or doctrine.

Has anyone heard of this?
If you mean Limbo for Infants that is not Church doctrine nor has it ever been. It was only ever a theological hypothesis.

As for the rest:

"HE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN"

CCC 631 Jesus "descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens." The Apostles' Creed confesses in the same article Christ's descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:

Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.

Paragraph 1. Christ Descended into Hell

CCC 632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection. This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.

CCC 633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom": "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell." Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

CCC 634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead." The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus' messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ's redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

CCC 635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live." Jesus, "the Author of life", by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."Henceforth the risen Christ holds "the keys of Death and Hades", so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."

Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8448Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: jerrythetrucker
5139CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: hopeful01
4423Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3863SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2
3731Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3314Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3279Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3222Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3107For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: flower lady



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 9:47 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.