Catholics VS Health Care in America: Morally Embarrassing

[tonyrey]

Originally Posted by JDaniel

Yessir! I'm one of those who can truly attest to the fact that what God giveth God can also take away, although I have no hard feelings toward him. Actually, I deserved it.

Having encountered the rich in England and the very poor in Africa and India I can assure you the latter are far happier. In a mud hut they're not weighed down by possessions and they have time for one another. The ragpickers who sleep in the gutter have time for everyone - but with free health care their children wouldn't die so soon...

[Gaber]

Originally Posted by tonyrey

Having encountered the rich in England and the very poor in Africa and India I can assure you the latter are far happier. In a mud hut they're not weighed down by possessions and they have time for one another. The ragpickers who sleep in the gutter have time for everyone - but with free health care their children wouldn't die so soon...

My bolds. What a notion. So a sense of something greater than oneself is possible through the activity of connectivity.

[tonyrey]

Originally Posted by Gaber

My bolds. What a notion. So a sense of something greater than oneself is possible through the activity of connectivity.

They are aware of others in a way that those who live in comfort and luxury are not - as the correlation of atheism with a high standard of living in Sweden demonstrates...

[Gaber]

Originally Posted by tonyrey

They are aware of others in a way that those who live in comfort and luxury are not - as the correlation of atheism with a high standard of living in Sweden demonstrates...

Well, you were doing brilliantly up to the Sweden part. Fact is, at one point atheism can be a healthy step away from the anthropomorphism of ordinary faith. From that platform or any other, including religious, for that matter, one can actually delve into what might be a far more productive "spiritual" life.

[RobbyS]

Originally Posted by Gaber

Well, you were doing brilliantly up to the Sweden part. Fact is, at one point atheism can be a healthy step away from the anthropomorphism of ordinary faith. From that platform or any other, including religious, for that matter, one can actually delve into what might be a far more productive "spiritual" life.

Speaking of Sweden, I suggest you look at the documentary Homosapiens 1900. The Swedes instituted the same eugenics polices that the Nazis did, including sterilization of the “unfit.” The master race without the militarism. They got away with murder for their collaboration with the Germans. While the rest of Europe --except Sweden--was improverished, the Swedes got rich.

[tonyrey]

Originally Posted by RobbyS

Speaking of Sweden, I suggest you look at the documentary Homosapiens 1900. The Swedes instituted the same eugenics polices that the Nazis did, including sterilization of the “unfit.” The master race without the militarism. They got away with murder for their collaboration with the Germans. While the rest of Europe --except Sweden--was improverished, the Swedes got rich.

Thank you, Robby, for hammering home the true consequences of materialism - that is supposed to be progress from the "anthropomorphism of ordinary faith" to a far more productive spiritual life. Thank God we're not at the mercy of the progressives! Catholics would probably be considered "unfit" and put to sleep - painlessly of course...

[LumenGent]

Originally Posted by SCRAM

LumenGent - I am quite sure you are mistaken. There is no way a 1.5% payroll tax is funding healthcare for everyone in Australia. Healthcare is 17% of GDP in the US. I bet it is lower in Australia but it would have to be more that 10 times lower for a 1.5% payroll tax to fund it. Why would there be the option for private insurance if they have universal healthcare? Something is not adding up here.

Sorry for the late reply, I forgot about this one.

Anyway, No I am not mistaken, the Australian's have something called the Medicare Levy where every working person pays 1.5% (unless you are a low income earner) of what they earn towards the funding of the Universal healthcare scheme they have in place. You can read about it here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Australia

In 2010, health expenditure was at 9.4% GDP.

http://www.aihw.gov.au/publication-d...id=10737420435

As for why there is private healthcare, the government is trying to get people to purchase their own healthcare in an attempt to make the Medicare system more accessible to the population who can't afford private healthcare. The Government is interested in minimizing it's expenses, and improving the system, that is why they have introduced an additional 1% on the Medicare levy to high earners that can afford to purchase their own private insurance.

[Gaber]

Originally Posted by RobbyS

Speaking of Sweden, I suggest you look at the documentary Homosapiens 1900. The Swedes instituted the same eugenics polices that the Nazis did, including sterilization of the “unfit.” The master race without the militarism. They got away with murder for their collaboration with the Germans. While the rest of Europe --except Sweden--was improverished, the Swedes got rich.

So did the Americans. If I'm not mistaken, the Rockafellers contributed to the eugenics program, though they were already rich, panzertanks ran on Buick engines, and Shell and others sold them benzine. Go figure, We are talking about today, anyway, as admittedly tragic as what you point out is. One of our favorite sports as humans appears to be killing each other in new and imaginative ways, or old excruciating ways. Pointing out Swedes in this context is relatively useful in a restricted way, but overall doesn't mean much.

My point is that if someone discovers that their faith has holes in it, or inconsistencies, it may very well be a healthy step to back off and take a look from outside the faith thy are in. Problems aren't solved from the conditions that generate them.

[seanpatrick]

Excellent reply.

I am trying to articulate, for myself, a similar line of thinking/feeling when faced with other folk's scrupulosity regarding my profession, pharmacy.

I am familiar with Church teachings on contraception. My wife and I do not use artificial contraception. I see the effect that its widespread use has had, and is having, on our world. I am dead set against abortion and the use of abortifacient drugs, which includes many oral contraceptives.

Regarding Catholic pharmacists - and other Catholics - who advocate an absolute "no!" when it comes to handling and dispensing these molecules I say that they are deserters - cowards, perhaps - in this battle. This battle " against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

In the Apostle's Creed we say of Our Lord, " He descended into Hell."

Our Lord also said, while being nailed to His Cross, " Forgive them Father, they know not what they do. "

Saint Paul wrote, " Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

In 350 A.D., St. Cyril of Jerusalem gave a series of lectures during Easter week to the newly initiated members of the Church. He spoke on the liturgical ceremonies of the three sacraments which they had received during the Easter Vigil. When speaking on Confirmation, he stated:

Just as Christ, after His baptism and the coming upon Him of the Holy Spirit went forth and defeated the adversary, so also with you. After holy Baptism and the Mystical Chrism, having put on the full suit of armor of the Holy Spirit, you are to withstand the power of the adversary, and defeat him, saying, 'I am able to do all things in Christ, Who strengthens me.'

So I don't quit my job. I don't pass-off the handling of certain medications to the "reprobate". I pray the Rosary every morning, I ask the Holy Spirit to inform me, to Live in me. I ask my Mother in Heaven and my Guardian Angel to remind me that I am always speaking in the presence of God. I say the prayer to Saint Michael. And I ask my Lord and Saviour to Live in me. I frequent Confession and attend Mass and receive the Holy Eucharist as often as possible.

And I remember that God is Love and that his creation is Good. Our original parents were tempted by the snake in the garden. They had a choice - so do we once we know. Adam and Eve knew better because their Father educated them. But He did not make a "safe" garden. He respected our free will too much for that. The garden is still dangerous, no matter where we hide. Worse, actually : it's a fallen garden now. But it is still Good.

I walk to my dispensary counter and pray for the grace to make clear to my client - in a firm and loving way - exactly WHAT it is he/she is buying, WHAT it really does to his/her body (evidence based medicine), how it has - and can - effect society as a whole and then I LET THEM CHOOSE.

Most make the right choice, ONCE THEY KNOW.

I try to engage "sinners", being one myself - one trying to emulate his innocent Lord, Who neither ran from nor scorned a repentant sinner. How can you repent - or turn from evil - if you are ignorant? Christ only condemned the sinners - like the Pharisees - who knew the Law, and remained unrepentant.

Nothing irks me more than to be lectured by some fellow parishioner just returned from a "faith cruise" or an "inter-diocese golf classic", tanned and driving a luxury SUV, about "moral theology". I think, " How about that investment portfolio? Any money being made from shares in companies perpetuating evil - including companies who make drugs?"

This whole world is awash in sin. We need to meet it. Engage it in - and with - our brothers and sisters. Not abandon them and run for safety. Neither Our Lord nor His Blessed Mother deserted their posts.

[aragonjohn1]

Originally Posted by seanpatrick

Excellent reply.

I am trying to articulate, for myself, a similar line of thinking/feeling when faced with other folk's scrupulosity regarding my profession, pharmacy.

I am familiar with Church teachings on contraception. My wife and I do not use artificial contraception. I see the effect that its widespread use has had, and is having, on our world. I am dead set against abortion and the use of abortifacient drugs, which includes many oral contraceptives.

Regarding Catholic pharmacists - and other Catholics - who advocate an absolute "no!" when it comes to handling and dispensing these molecules I say that they are deserters - cowards, perhaps - in this battle. This battle " against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

In the Apostle's Creed we say of Our Lord, " He descended into Hell."

Our Lord also said, while being nailed to His Cross, " Forgive them Father, they know not what they do. "

Saint Paul wrote, " Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

In 350 A.D., St. Cyril of Jerusalem gave a series of lectures during Easter week to the newly initiated members of the Church. He spoke on the liturgical ceremonies of the three sacraments which they had received during the Easter Vigil. When speaking on Confirmation, he stated:

Just as Christ, after His baptism and the coming upon Him of the Holy Spirit went forth and defeated the adversary, so also with you. After holy Baptism and the Mystical Chrism, having put on the full suit of armor of the Holy Spirit, you are to withstand the power of the adversary, and defeat him, saying, 'I am able to do all things in Christ, Who strengthens me.'

So I don't quit my job. I don't pass-off the handling of certain medications to the "reprobate". I pray the Rosary every morning, I ask the Holy Spirit to inform me, to Live in me. I ask my Mother in Heaven and my Guardian Angel to remind me that I am always speaking in the presence of God. I say the prayer to Saint Michael. And I ask my Lord and Saviour to Live in me. I frequent Confession and attend Mass and receive the Holy Eucharist as often as possible.

And I remember that God is Love and that his creation is Good. Our original parents were tempted by the snake in the garden. They had a choice - so do we once we know. Adam and Eve knew better because their Father educated them. But He did not make a "safe" garden. He respected our free will too much for that. The garden is still dangerous, no matter where we hide. Worse, actually : it's a fallen garden now. But it is still Good.

I walk to my dispensary counter and pray for the grace to make clear to my client - in a firm and loving way - exactly WHAT it is he/she is buying, WHAT it really does to his/her body (evidence based medicine), how it has - and can - effect society as a whole and then I LET THEM CHOOSE.

Most make the right choice, ONCE THEY KNOW.

I try to engage "sinners", being one myself - one trying to emulate his innocent Lord, Who neither ran from nor scorned a repentant sinner. How can you repent - or turn from evil - if you are ignorant? Christ only condemned the sinners - like the Pharisees - who knew the Law, and remained unrepentant.

Nothing irks me more than to be lectured by some fellow parishioner just returned from a "faith cruise" or an "inter-diocese golf classic", tanned and driving a luxury SUV, about "moral theology". I think, " How about that investment portfolio? Any money being made from shares in companies perpetuating evil - including companies who make drugs?"

This whole world is awash in sin. We need to meet it. Engage it in - and with - our brothers and sisters. Not abandon them and run for safety. Neither Our Lord nor His Blessed Mother deserted their posts.

SHAlom : )


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