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  #31  
Old Jan 21, '12, 9:23 am
BlueEyedLady BlueEyedLady is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by JimG View Post
I like the idea of donating more to Catholic Charities rather than withholding taxes. The IRS will simply take your money or your assets eventually.

Donations to charity reduces taxable income and results in less money paid in taxes.

Of course, if huge numbers of people did that, the charitable contribution deduction would soon be on the chopping block.

Or here's an idea: what if 50 million pro-lifers actually voted pro-life? What if every Catholic, every Evangelical, voted pro-life?
Because in our 2-party system a vote against abortion is quite often a vote for war, the death penalty, against healthcare and food for the needy and for children, and often against jobs and fair wages. Its very, very hard to find a politician that you agree with on everything. And many people feel like they are torn between voting against abortion and voting for a better life for the living.
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  #32  
Old Jan 21, '12, 9:36 am
nordskoven nordskoven is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

Christ paid taxes to the occupying Roman government that was lining the roads with crucified rebels; and Christ paid temple tax to the Romanized religious that were using the Roman calendar and so didn't know the "time of their visitation," the exact day (celebrated on Palm Sunday) Daniel gave for the return of Messiah. Read it and weep. Christ did it and so will I.

It is a brilliant suggestion to adopt a tax strategy for those who itemize to donate, donate, donate, even as the Clinton's did, down to the last pair of second-hand underwear. You just make a list, take pics if you want, and submit.

How about voting? What if every Catholic voted pro-life? I suggest the government isn't the problem per se. We have seen the enemy and he is us. The Democrat Party platform is explicitly pro-abortion, including partial birth abortion. This isn't news. Catholics voted in our pro-abortion leaders. It's not a "government" problem. It's a Catholic problem. That said, the abortion rate is down. Let's keep praying and working.

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Jan 22, '12 at 5:55 pm.
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  #33  
Old Jan 21, '12, 9:42 am
Nate13 Nate13 is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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How about voting? What if every Catholic voted pro-life?
Haha good point. If someone was able to organize 50 million pro-life voters to stop paying income taxes don't you think they would be able to organize them to vote and get it done the easy way?
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  #34  
Old Jan 21, '12, 12:41 pm
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Speedypizza Speedypizza is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by Jaypeeto4 View Post

Today our government, by this horribly wicked decision, quite likely blasphemed the spirit of God. You don't EVER, not EVER, tell a religion and it's people that they are required by Law to violate their consciences. We can be assured, as Our Lady has warned us many times, that God will NOT "sit still" for this, and that this daring abomination WILL be punished and visited upon these arrogant, apostate people IN THIS LIFE, not just in the next life, and it will happen by a supernatural act of God. Will it be the Three Days Darkness? Or the Great Chastisement? I don't know, but one thing I am pretty certain of, and that is that something BIG is coming, from heaven, and coming VERY soon. This nation and it's leaders have gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far this time.
I can see why you get worked up over this, however your comments here are a tad over the top...

I think talking like that is going to scare more people away then it will draw to you.
I am sure God will deal with them in the next life, however what reason do you have for saying you are going to see this in THIS life? It almost sounds like you are claiming to know the will of God...
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  #35  
Old Jan 21, '12, 1:53 pm
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Khalid Khalid is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by BlueEyedLady View Post
Because in our 2-party system a vote against abortion is quite often a vote for war, the death penalty, against healthcare and food for the needy and for children, and often against jobs and fair wages. Its very, very hard to find a politician that you agree with on everything. And many people feel like they are torn between voting against abortion and voting for a better life for the living.
Amen atheist Reverendess.

Not many Catholics or Christians are pleased that I'm a traditionalist and staunch social conservative while also being a quasi-socialist (social market economy) liberal on economics. I'm automatically a Godless liberal because I support social programs and higher taxes for the rich and general repeal of all of the regressive economic strictures present at all levels of law and government. And I don't support lack of healthcare, lack of education, lack of national security, lack of jobs, lack of the Federal Reserve, lack of social security and disability and worker's compensation income, privatization or elimination of social security and retirement plans, and don't support letting millions of people starve to death on the streets and become a magnet for terrorist attacks in place of possibly saving unborn children (which the President can't do alone - he needs the Court or the Congress, and probably both) - just shifting the sin and suffering to another group at best.
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Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Jan 22, '12 at 5:56 pm.
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  #36  
Old Jan 21, '12, 7:33 pm
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Speedypizza Speedypizza is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by Khalid View Post
Amen atheist Reverendess.

Not many Catholics or Christians are pleased that I'm a traditionalist and staunch social conservative while also being a quasi-socialist (social market economy) liberal on economics. I'm automatically a Godless liberal because I support social programs and higher taxes for the rich and general repeal of all of the regressive economic strictures present at all levels of law and government. And I don't support lack of healthcare, lack of education, lack of national security, lack of jobs, lack of the Federal Reserve, lack of social security and disability and worker's compensation income, privatization or elimination of social security and retirement plans, and don't support letting millions of people starve to death on the streets and become a magnet for terrorist attacks in place of possibly saving unborn children (which the President can't do alone - he needs the Court or the Congress, and probably both) - just shifting the sin and suffering to another group at best. That's why I won't vote for pro-life Ron Paul (not because he's pro-life, but because his foreign and domestic policies are absolute madness) even if I have to vote Obama to keep him from getting in.
-cue dramatic music-
-Hear the voices of angry peasants with pitchforks and torches, slowly getting louder-
-A lone man, dressed in black comes into focus on the screen, with mist behind him-
-In a deep and commanding voice-
"This man has dared to say that they do not agree with the ultra-right wingers on here, has dared to say that he can think for himself. Wost of all he has dared to say that he will decide for HIMSELF who to vote for, and not just vote Republican because somebody SAYS that he has to. Now you will see the error of his ways, as the mob finds him and (verbally) tears him limb from limb"

(Just for the record, I agree with you to a large degree, however some people on here are still under some kind of spell that tells them American=Christan=Republican and that God loves America more then any other country on earth. Every time I point out that I don't agree with them, they become enraged and not only try to attack my position but attack me as a person and try to somehow say that I am not a REAL Catholic.)
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  #37  
Old Jan 22, '12, 9:14 am
Elizabeth502 Elizabeth502 is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by Bartolome Casas View Post
How on earth could the government arrest, prosecute and imprison all 50 million of us?
The gov't doesn't need to "imprison" anyone, although certainly that's another step/option, and is often used for prolonged & high-profile cases. The first course of action is to garnish wages, garnish Unemployment Benefits, garnish other forms of assistance, place liens on real property (homes) + personal possessions (cars), etc.

Good luck fighting the U.S. gov't. It sometimes achieves publicity, but in the long-term it achieves ignominy and far more negativity for the taxpayer (credit reports, employment consequences, possible loss of personal freedom) than for the institution (gov't agency).
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  #38  
Old Jan 22, '12, 1:23 pm
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by BlueEyedLady View Post
Because in our 2-party system a vote against abortion is quite often a vote for war, the death penalty, against healthcare and food for the needy and for children, and often against jobs and fair wages. Its very, very hard to find a politician that you agree with on everything. And many people feel like they are torn between voting against abortion and voting for a better life for the living.
In 2008, a vote FOR abortion was a vote for war, against healthcare, against aid to the needy and against jobs and fair wages. It would have been neutral on the issue of capital punishment, both sides being the same on that, judging by their actions.

Now, having had the experience we have had for the last 3+ years, who can justify voting for abortion again?

That's the real question.

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Jan 22, '12 at 5:58 pm.
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  #39  
Old Jan 22, '12, 1:30 pm
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by JimG View Post
I like the idea of donating more to Catholic Charities rather than withholding taxes. The IRS will simply take your money or your assets eventually.

Donations to charity reduces taxable income and results in less money paid in taxes.

Of course, if huge numbers of people did that, the charitable contribution deduction would soon be on the chopping block.

Or here's an idea: what if 50 million pro-lifers actually voted pro-life? What if every Catholic, every Evangelical, voted pro-life?
Your last sentence is the one that has the greatest claim to conscience.

You are correct that extreme resort to charitable giving will probably result in this government cutting out the charitable deduction, at least for some. There are rumblings about that coming from the government right now.

But as an individual, I can still do it. For now, I'm well below the "rich man" radarscope. Someday this government will redefine "rich" downward to nail me too. I'm convinced of that. But so far, it hasn't happened.

It's just a fact that even the $200,000/year definition of "rich" will hammer a lot of people, particularly farmers and small business people, who don't have anywhere near $200,000 in discretionary income, but whose tax returns would show, in some years, $200,000 adjustable gross income.

But whatever, just because those people hire most folks who get hired and raise the food we eat, that's no reason not to hinder them from doing it. Right?

Last edited by Matilda Bennett; Jan 22, '12 at 5:59 pm.
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  #40  
Old Jan 22, '12, 1:53 pm
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Luna Lovecraft Luna Lovecraft is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by Bartolome Casas View Post
How on earth could the government arrest, prosecute and imprison all 50 million of us?
They would't imprison us. They'd levy fines against us. They'd garnish our wages, SSI, and/or disability income. They'd put leins on our property. They'd put tax evasion convictions on our criminal records so that we would lose professional licenses and could cost us the employment we have now as well as limit where we could work in the future. They could make it very difficult for us to get a mortgage or apply for a loan in the future. And the list goes on and on and on.

Does the government have the resources? Of that I have little doubt: yes, it does.

Luna

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  #41  
Old Jan 22, '12, 2:25 pm
Elizabeth502 Elizabeth502 is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by Luna Lovecraft View Post
They would't imprison us. They'd levy fines against us. They'd garnish our wages, SSI, and/or disability income. They'd put leins on our property. They'd put tax evasion convictions on our criminal records so that we would lose professional licenses and could cost us the employment we have now as well as limit where we could work in the future. They could make it very difficult for us to get a mortgage or apply for a loan in the future. And the list goes on and on and on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth502 View Post
The gov't doesn't need to "imprison" anyone, although certainly that's another step/option, and is often used for prolonged & high-profile cases. The first course of action is to garnish wages, garnish Unemployment Benefits, garnish other forms of assistance, place liens on real property (homes) + personal possessions (cars), etc.

Good luck fighting the U.S. gov't. It sometimes achieves publicity, but in the long-term it achieves ignominy and far more negativity for the taxpayer (credit reports, employment consequences, possible loss of personal freedom) than for the institution (gov't agency).
("Great minds think alike." )
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  #42  
Old Jan 22, '12, 3:04 pm
Personanongrata Personanongrata is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by Bartolome Casas View Post
How on earth could the government arrest, prosecute and imprison all 50 million of us?
No need for imprisonment.

Have you ever had your wages garnished? Do you know the penalties for tax evasion? How would you live when that happened? How would you feed your family?

2 wrongs don't make a right.
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  #43  
Old Jan 22, '12, 4:22 pm
Geist Geist is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

Well, no tax money goes towards abortion. So theres that problem. Also, a society cannot function if every group decides it won't pay in because something offends it.

What? We subsidize pork producers? Jews and Muslims are exempt from paying taxes!

Federal employees wear clothes? Nudists are exempt from paying taxes!

We subsidize beef? Hindus are exempt from paying taxes!

We subsidize corn? Carnivores are exempt from paying taxes!

So on and so forth..... grinding a country to a halt because something bugs you is selfish.
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  #44  
Old Jan 22, '12, 4:29 pm
trickster trickster is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by Ridgerunner View Post
A wealthy guy I know suggested almost the same thing. If even 8 million wealthy people donated their incomes to charity for one year, the government would be helpless to do anything about it and would be on its knees financially. He pays his taxes like a slot machine, but is very prolife (Evangelical) and was as serious as he could be. He had it all figured out, right down to the amount of the shortfall.
That's interesting...it certainly would speak to private sector corporate and social responsibility..but what I don't understand is that if we were to do that then we would be allowed to call the shots on what we fund. In addition, if a centralized fund (with interest) did these things, government would not need to do that anymore and would not need taxes for those present government expenses...

Which I guess speaks to the entrenchment of government in our lives....(I like government, think it has a role, but it should just be a partner in communtiy funding... not the total controller...)...

Bruce
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  #45  
Old Jan 22, '12, 4:58 pm
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Luna Lovecraft Luna Lovecraft is offline
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Default Re: What if 50 million Pro-Lifers stopped paying income taxes simultaneously?

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Originally Posted by Elizabeth502 View Post
("Great minds think alike." )
Indeed.

Luna
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