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  #1  
Old Jan 31, '12, 3:47 pm
dominikus28 dominikus28 is offline
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Default Contraception doctrine or dogma?

Is the ban on contraception a doctrine or a dogma?
Is the ban on murder and abortion a dogma?

I understand that a doctrine is a teaching of the Church, but a dogma is a defined teaching. I still kind of dont get this, so can anyone provide some examples of doctrines that are not dogmas please. Thanks
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  #2  
Old Jan 31, '12, 4:53 pm
Nate13 Nate13 is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominikus28 View Post
Is the ban on contraception a doctrine or a dogma?
Is the ban on murder and abortion a dogma?

I understand that a doctrine is a teaching of the Church, but a dogma is a defined teaching. I still kind of dont get this, so can anyone provide some examples of doctrines that are not dogmas please. Thanks
I'm stealing this from this thread: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=122245

Quote:
1) Deposit of Faith: Holy Scripture AND Sacred Tradition, recognized and deliniated by the Magesterium. INFALLIBLE. Cannot be added to or subtracted from.

2) Dogma: INFALLIBLE teaching of Faith or Morals, derived from the Deposit of Faith. Propagated by ex cathedra pronouncment of reigning Pontiff or by a ecumenical council of the Church's bishops in turn ratified by reigning Pontiff. Cannot contradict Deposit of Faith or prior Dogma.

3) Doctrine: NOT infallible teaching of the Church of Faith and Morals. Binding on all Catholics while propagated. Can be altered, modified, abandoned, even condemned. Doctrine RARELY becomes Dogma.

4) Discipline: NOT infallible rules of behavior, binding on all Catholics while propagated, designed with the intent to keep believers "on the straight and narrow". Includes Lenten rules of fasting & priestly celibacy. Can be relaxed, altered, or abolished.

5) Devotions: Private practice of prayers, meditions, and disciplines, in accordance to Church approval. Includes 99% of Marian devotions, belief in approved apparitions or visions (Private Revelation), First Saturdays, Stations of the Cross, etc...
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I would consider the Church's teaching on contraception to be part of the Deposit of Faith or infallible by default because it is very clear that there are for sure times when the entirety of the bishops taught unitedly on the issue with certitude. It has not been declared infallible ex cathedra though by the Pope, but its binding on Catholics either way. The Church's teaching on the Eucharist has not been declared ex cathedra either and that is binding because it is part of the Deposit of Faith.
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  #3  
Old Jan 31, '12, 5:00 pm
dominikus28 dominikus28 is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

I thought doctrine was a teaching, and teachings of the Church cannot change.
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  #4  
Old Jan 31, '12, 9:38 pm
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centurionguard centurionguard is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate13 View Post
I'm stealing this from this thread: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=122245



I would consider the Church's teaching on contraception to be part of the Deposit of Faith or infallible by default because it is very clear that there are for sure times when the entirety of the bishops taught unitedly on the issue with certitude. It has not been declared infallible ex cathedra though by the Pope, but its binding on Catholics either way. The Church's teaching on the Eucharist has not been declared ex cathedra either and that is binding because it is part of the Deposit of Faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate13 View Post
I would consider the Church's teaching on contraception to be part of the Deposit of Faith or infallible by default because it is very clear that there are for sure times when the entirety of the bishops taught unitedly on the issue with certitude. It has not been declared infallible ex cathedra though by the Pope, but its binding on Catholics either way.
The Official teaching of the Catholic Church on Contraception and its restrictions come from Pope Paul VI Encyclical Humane Vitae. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pa...-vitae_en.html

As far as I understand it The Magisterium of the Church fully endorses the Doctrinal aspects of Humanae Vitae. However; given the decisions of Roe v Wade in the United States and the terrible Winnipeg Statement in Canada it left a huge wound in the Catholic Church. Beloved Popes John Paul II and present Pope Benedict XVI have worked tirelessly to close this wound.
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  #5  
Old Jan 31, '12, 9:38 pm
Nate13 Nate13 is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominikus28 View Post
I thought doctrine was a teaching, and teachings of the Church cannot change.
See this answer from an apologist:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=11276

Also this thread has more clear cut answers. Dogma is a sub-category of doctrine and speaks to things that have been formally revealed by God.
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=593544
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  #6  
Old Jan 31, '12, 9:40 pm
Nate13 Nate13 is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

Quote:
Originally Posted by centurionguard View Post
The Official teaching of the Catholic Church on Contraception and its restrictions come from Pope Paul VI Encyclical Humane Vitae. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pa...-vitae_en.html

As far as I understand it The Magisterium of the Church fully endorses the Doctrinal aspects of Humanae Vitae. However; given the decisions of Roe v Wade in the United States and the terrible Winnipeg Statement in Canada it left a huge wound in the Catholic Church. Beloved Popes John Paul II and present Pope Benedict XVI have worked tirelessly to close this wound.
The doctrine on contraception has been around since the beginning of the Church. Humane Vitae is the teaching on the application of the doctrine and reiteration of it as it pertains to recent times and recent questionings of it that have come up.
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  #7  
Old Jan 31, '12, 10:42 pm
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twoangels twoangels is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominikus28 View Post
Is the ban on contraception a doctrine or a dogma?
Is the ban on murder and abortion a dogma?

I understand that a doctrine is a teaching of the Church, but a dogma is a defined teaching. I still kind of dont get this, so can anyone provide some examples of doctrines that are not dogmas please. Thanks
If it were a ban on contraceptive, it would be a discipline. Contraceptives are objectively immoral. This is a doctrine. It is a doctrine because there is no formal definition involved with this teaching. A dogma deals with a complete formal definition such as the definition of the Trinity, the Two natures in one Christ, etc. The doctrine against contraceptives is based on dogmas of the Catholic Church, so to deny the authenticity of its teaching even though its not dogmatically defined requires the person to deny dogmatic teachings of the Catholic Church.
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  #8  
Old Feb 1, '12, 8:46 am
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

It is good too to note that the Church states regarding the doctrine:

"The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of
contraception, that is, of every marital act intentionally
rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive
and irreformable
. Contraception is gravely opposed to marital
chastity.." (Vademecum for Confessors 2:4, emphasis added)
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  #9  
Old Feb 1, '12, 11:19 am
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centurionguard centurionguard is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate13 View Post
The doctrine on contraception has been around since the beginning of the Church. Humane Vitae is the teaching on the application of the doctrine and reiteration of it as it pertains to recent times and recent questionings of it that have come up.
It was a mistake on my part however; can you state exactly when the Doctrine On Contraception was officially declared?

I tried the Holy See but it not always easy to find exactly what your looking for.
Nonetheless the following sources were a help. Church Teaching on Contraception Parts 1 through 4 http://catholiceducation.org/article...on/re0658.html

Also this article was interesting: Council of Trent and Catholic Tradition (birth control)
http://what-when-how.com/birth-contr...birth-control/
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To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.
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  #10  
Old Feb 1, '12, 11:58 am
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominikus28 View Post
Is the ban on contraception a doctrine or a dogma?
Is the ban on murder and abortion a dogma?

I understand that a doctrine is a teaching of the Church, but a dogma is a defined teaching. I still kind of dont get this, so can anyone provide some examples of doctrines that are not dogmas please. Thanks
This may help some.

and this.
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  #11  
Old Feb 4, '12, 11:24 am
Hadrianus Hadrianus is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominikus28 View Post
Is the ban on contraception a doctrine or a dogma?
Is the ban on murder and abortion a dogma?

I understand that a doctrine is a teaching of the Church, but a dogma is a defined teaching. I still kind of dont get this, so can anyone provide some examples of doctrines that are not dogmas please. Thanks
According to the infallible definition of the First Vatican Council all teachings on faith AND Morals, are to be firmly held when taught by the Pope and the bishops in union with him in the exercise of their ordinary teaching authority. These teachings are found in Catechisms approved by Rome; they are usually in Scripture, or are theological conclusions derived from Scripture and reason together upon which the Church has pronounced as being irreformable.
Traditionally such are called Catholic Truths and are believed with Ecclesiastical faith, a slightly lower grade are truths which are called theologically certain, such as that the ministers of the sacrament of matrimony are the two contracting parities. Until Ordinatio Sacerdotals of1994, the truth that only members of the male sex could be validly ordained was in that category, but it has been raised to that of Ecclesiastical Faith by the definitive statement made in OS..

To reject one of these is to commit an "error in ecclesiastical faith." Theologians are divided as to whether this constitutes heresy; but it's the closest thing to it, and a grave sin.. To deny truths decried as theologically certain is also seriously sinful. The sinfulness lies in the denial of the Church as a divinely founded guide in Faith and Morals.

Contraception has been universally consider gravely sinful by the Church from the text of the "Didiche" or "teaching" which dates from about 95 AD, down to the present. The only question mark concerned the Pill, which because it was taken internally acts upon a woman's biology, a commission was set up to examine whether or not it constituted contraception in the full sense. Paul VI decided it did in 1968 and that has been the consistent teaching of the Pope since, and this teaching is also found in all approved catechisms, i.e. the CCC.

The fact that a few bishops, notably in Austria and Canada, dissented from the encyclical Humanae Vitae is irrelevant, as dissent from Rome and the other bishops of the World, made them a mere minority group. In any case, both hierarchies have since repudiated the dissent and affirmed their adherence to the doctrine.
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Old Feb 4, '12, 11:41 am
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DaddyGirl DaddyGirl is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

Quote:
Originally Posted by twoangels View Post
If it were a ban on contraceptive, it would be a discipline. Contraceptives are objectively immoral. This is a doctrine. It is a doctrine because there is no formal definition involved with this teaching. A dogma deals with a complete formal definition such as the definition of the Trinity, the Two natures in one Christ, etc. The doctrine against contraceptives is based on dogmas of the Catholic Church, so to deny the authenticity of its teaching even though its not dogmatically defined requires the person to deny dogmatic teachings of the Catholic Church.

So if it is doctrine, not dogma...as per the definitions earlier on the thread of both...does that mean the ruling on it can be changed by a pope or council if they choose to? The doctrine on it can be altered?
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  #13  
Old Feb 4, '12, 12:14 pm
Hadrianus Hadrianus is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

In theory it could be upgraded to a dogma, but moral teachings are rarely treated in that way. Dogmatic definitions are usually limited to Articles of Faith, i.e. to do with the nature of God, the role of Mary in the redemption etc.

Historically what is a Catholic Doctrine is raised by further clarifications, but never downgraded. Slavery is a case in point. It has always been a catholic doctrine that slavery was an evil, but it was tolerated. Now it is prohibited absolutely.

People sometimes cite the question of usury, but usury means money lent at interest which will be used up. e.g., I lend X 1,000 dollars to buy food. Once the food is gone, X must still pay me 1,000 back plus interest. With the development of capitalism in the late 17nth Century, loans could become productive. Eg, I lend X 1,000 dollars plus interest. X invests the money and makes 10,000 dollars. He can pay me back with interest and still make a tidy profit. Hence what is happening is productive.
Usury in the strict sense is still a serious sin. I could still lend X money for , say food, but I would have no right to charge him interest, because the money was simply used up, and he is not obliged to pay me back anything more than I lent him to begin with. .
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Old Feb 5, '12, 2:40 am
tafan tafan is offline
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

There is a misuse of the term dogma and doctrine throughout most of this thread.

Docftrines are not fallible teachings. I think the correct wording of the original question would be: is the Church's teaching on contraception part of the non-infallible teaching of the ordinary magisterium? IMO absolutely no

Definitions:
Extraordinary magisterium: infallible teachings defined ex-cathedral by a pope or defined by a general council in union with a pope.
Ordinary magisterium: taught by the bishops can be infallible or non-infallible teaching. If taught universally by the bishops, it is infallible. Immorality of contraception clearly falls in this category. An example of a teaching which was not universally taught by bishops, and hence non- infallible, would be Limbo of the infants.
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Old Feb 5, '12, 7:34 pm
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Default Re: Contraception doctrine or dogma?

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Originally Posted by DaddyGirl View Post
So if it is doctrine, not dogma...as per the definitions earlier on the thread of both...does that mean the ruling on it can be changed by a pope or council if they choose to? The doctrine on it can be altered?
A discipline can be changed. A doctrine can be clarified and can develop over time, but it must be understood that the doctrine is the plant growing from the root of the dogma. The doctrine does develop over time, but it doesn't die. John Paul II's Theology of the Body is a development in the doctrine of sexual morality. It builds upon what the Church teaches and expands and clarifies its understanding of it. Typically it does this by explaining how other dogmas and doctrines play into. As such, as the of doctrinal development grows, it becomes clearer and clearer that all the teaches actually form a singular whole and a perfect unity. It also becomes clearer what ideas are not authentic doctrines but doctrines that are based on assumptions people may make by looking only at one particular area or subject of Church teaching. These areas then can be weeded out.
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