Is purgatory in the same place as hell? - Page 2

Veronica97 · #16 Feb 5, '12, 3:23 pm

Jim, I saw a Mother Angelica Live program this week, where she read from a book that had the vision of St. John Bosco that you're talking about. She said she can't prove it, but she felt like it might be Limbo b/c it had so many "earthly" things but they were much more beautiful. (Limbo being a natural state of happiness). But if it's Purgatory, it must be the level where you're almost in Heaven b/c it didn't seem like anyone was suffering.

JimR-OCDS · #17 Feb 5, '12, 4:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veronica97

Jim, I saw a Mother Angelica Live program this week, where she read from a book that had the vision of St. John Bosco that you're talking about. She said she can't prove it, but she felt like it might be Limbo b/c it had so many "earthly" things but they were much more beautiful. (Limbo being a natural state of
happiness). But if it's Purgatory, it must be the level where you're almost in Heaven b/c it didn't seem like anyone was suffering.

Actually it was Mother Angelica where I first heard about him being in purgatory. It intreged me enough to buy the book.

It was purgatory and he learned of it when he met some boys he knew in life, who told him where he was.

Jim

deafjazzy · #18 Feb 5, '12, 4:14 pm

In purgatory, it is peaceful and loving. We do not have any fear or bad thoughts. It is not same here on earth. Here on earth we all have our own thoughts, emotions, and pains. In purgatory none of them exist there except pure Love.

fakename · #19 Feb 5, '12, 11:58 pm

Quote:

Purgatory is a state of purgation, but St Dom Bosco visited purgatory in a dream and it was so beautiful, he thought he was in heaven.

The main thing is, in purgatory, you know you are saved and will have the beatific vision of God in heaven.

does that exclude the possibility of devils being there or , what is the same, exerting their power there?

JimR-OCDS · #20 Feb 6, '12, 2:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakename

does that exclude the possibility of devils being there or , what is the same, exerting their power there?

No devils in purgatory.

Jim

fakename · #21 Feb 6, '12, 5:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by user "JimR-OCDS"

no devils in purgatory

why?

JimR-OCDS · #22 Feb 6, '12, 5:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakename

why?

Because in their evil, they can not exist in that level of spiritual existence.

Jim

fakename · #23 Feb 7, '12, 9:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by user "JimR-OCDS"

Because in their evil, they can not exist in that level of spiritual existence.

But can't they use their power to influence things in purgatory, and since an angel is in a place only by power, then wouldn't they (the devils) be in purgatory?

Also, the devils can affect earth but earth is better than hell too. So if their evil was an impediment to being in less evil areas, then the devils couldn't be on earth which is wrong.

JimR-OCDS · #24 Feb 7, '12, 10:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fakename

But can't they use their power to influence things in purgatory, and since an angel is in a place only by power, then wouldn't they (the devils) be in purgatory?

Also, the devils can affect earth but earth is better than hell too. So if their evil was an impediment to being in less evil areas, then the devils couldn't be on earth which is wrong.

No, because purgatory, hell and heaven are states that the souls are in and they can not cross into higher realms without the soul being in the proper state. This includes devils, who are condemned to hell for all eternity.

Here on earth we are in a fallen state, where Satan is free to move about and influence evil.

Jim

fakename · #25 Feb 7, '12, 8:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS

No, because purgatory, hell and heaven are states that the souls are in and they can not cross into higher realms without the soul being in the proper state. This includes devils, who are condemned to hell for all eternity.

Here on earth we are in a fallen state, where Satan is free to move about and influence evil.

Jim

So the devil can move about in any place depending on the morality climate of the place?

So he has some power on earth but more in hell?

dailey · #26 Feb 7, '12, 8:58 pm

I have to say this is the FIRST TIME I have *ever* heard anyone say that purgatory is not pure torture?? I, for one, can't imagine it being a place of peace since we are not with God..and that is what will bring us so much grief..

SteveGC · #27 Feb 7, '12, 9:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dailey

I have to say this is the FIRST TIME I have *ever* heard anyone say that purgatory is not pure torture?? I, for one, can't imagine it being a place of peace since we are not with God..and that is what will bring us so much grief..

We are not fully and completely with God, but purgatory is very much a part of God, and His presence is fully felt. It is indeed His infinite love that "burns" us, and refines our impure selves, transforming us into gold. He is there. It is He who is purifying.

And so, inasmuch as we are being purified, we are truly with God in purgatory. I do think it will be a very painful experience. But I think it's hopeful, anticipatory pain. The type of raw pain that is accompanied by our full knowledge that it is for our ultimate and eternal gain....that it can be best described in earthly phraseology as "hurts so good!".

deafjazzy · #28 Feb 7, '12, 9:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dailey

I have to say this is the FIRST TIME I have *ever* heard anyone say that purgatory is not pure torture?? I, for one, can't imagine it being a place of peace since we are not with God..and that is what will bring us so much grief..

Hell we stay with old body and old life without God. Purgartory we stay with old body and old life with God. Heaven we get a new body and new life with God.

A G · #29 Feb 9, '12, 8:47 am

Purgatory and hell are not the same. Those in Purgatory, will eventually make it to Heaven. Purgatory is temporary, while Heaven and hell are not temporary. Some people go straight to Heaven, while others need to be "cleansed" or "purified" of sins committed because in order for us to enter Heaven, we must be "clean" or "purified." In Heaven we must be perfect to be in the presence of God - and that is why some must go through Purgatory in order to have their sins "purged" away first. Purgatory is for sins that don't deserve absolute punishment. Those in hell, however, suffer and are eternally separated from God.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
1030 - All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

hazcompat · #30 Feb 9, '12, 9:47 am

SAINT CATHERINE OF GENOA
Treatise on Purgatory

The Dialogue

I believe no happiness can be found worthy to be compared with that of a soul in Purgatory except that of the saints in Paradise; and day by day this happiness grows as God flows into these souls, more and more as the hindrance to His entrance is consumed. Sin's rust is the hindrance, and the fire burns the rust away so that more and more the soul opens itself up to the divine inflowing. A thing which is covered cannot respond to the sun's rays, not because of any defect in the sun, which is shining all the time, but because the cover is an obstacle; if the cover be burnt away, this thing is open to the sun; more and more as the cover is consumed does it respond to the rays of the sun

peace

http://www.cfpeople.org/Apologetics/page51a013.html