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  #16  
Old Feb 6, '12, 3:04 pm
Nimzovik Nimzovik is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Hmmmmmm I stand corrected. Sorry.
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  #17  
Old Feb 6, '12, 4:39 pm
Teelynn Teelynn is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alix1912 View Post
I am not Catholic. I am Lutheran MS. I do not have any moral issue with barrier birth control, though I do major issues with anything that harms an already conceived child. Despite the fact that I do not completely share the Catholic Church's beliefs, I do believe that they have a right to those beliefs, and that right is and should be protected by the 1st Ammendment.

That being said the recent HHS ruling is WRONG, on every level, and it is a direct and clear violation to the US constitution.

I am so glad that the Catholic Clergy and leadership of America are not taking this assault to their Religion lightly. Thank you for standing up, and know that many of your non Catholic brothers and sisters are standing with you. I have already spoken and written to my elected officals and I will continue to do so until this mandate is removed.

I call on everyone who regularly visits this page and is not Catholic to stand with their Catholic brothers and sisters and fight this assault on our freedom.
Thank you brother in Christ! What I believe our Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ and other religions as well are (hopefully) acutely aware of, is that this seems to be only the beginning........yes, they're now coming after Catholics mainly, and after that......like Archbishop Dolan has said...................."What's Next?" If they keep up the attack on freedom for those of faith......it will affect everyone.

Thank you again and yes! We must now stand united!!
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  #18  
Old Feb 6, '12, 4:58 pm
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonNC View Post
Well said!!

However, we do not need to replace the birth control issue with "chocolate bars". We can replace it with the "ministerial exception"in the case of a Lutheran school. This administration is in full attack mode against religious organizations, including the LCMS.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/12/us...pagewanted=all

If we allow our doctrinal differences to get in the way of standing together against anti-religious tyranny, we are in trouble. As was said by Thomas Paine, "If we do not hang together, we shall surely hang separately."

If we stand shoulder to shoulder now, and win these battles, perhaps we can discuss our doctrinal differences later. If we don't, the chances are our freedom of speech will fall alng side our freedom of religion.

Right now, in this country, we really need each other.

Jon
I agree with you. There aren't a whole lot of Lutherans around here (though those that are, are all LCMS...this being Southern Missouri and all) but there are worlds of Evangelicals and even more Fundamentalists. I have not the least problem standing shoulder to shoulder with any of those folks for the sake of religious freedom and the right to life.

I'm not in any way a person who thinks one religion is as "right" as another. I'm Catholic, and I'll remain Catholic forever. But there are a lot of extremely moral and genuinely religious Protestants. I grew up in the Bible Belt and live here still, and most of my friends are Protestants. I respect that, and them.

Certainly, Lutherans ought to be commended for holding the line in the Hosana Tabor case. It was an important case. The Obama administration actually argued that the government, rather than the churches, ought to be able to determine who is a "minister" of a church and who isn't. An astounding bit of arrogance and disrespect, and it tells one just how contemptuous of religious convictions Obama really is.

I truly do believe devout Protestants ought to be alarmed at this latest decree of the Obama administration (among others). As the largest single church in the U.S., if the Catholic Church gets swept aside in this, smaller churches will have little chance to successfully resist new suppressions of religion, the Hosana Tabor victory notwithstanding. Obama's attempt to dominate religious organizations will not end with Hosana Tabor, nor will it end with the Obamacare abortion coverage mandates.
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  #19  
Old Feb 6, '12, 5:25 pm
SwissGuard25 SwissGuard25 is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Our churches might not always agree but our Churches both know that this is Wrong.

Glad to have your help.
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  #20  
Old Feb 6, '12, 6:10 pm
SmallCcatholic SmallCcatholic is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Like others mentioned, there is more here than meets the eye. I can imagine this
should help change the amount of Catholic support this administration got last
time around...
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  #21  
Old Feb 6, '12, 6:12 pm
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Linda Marie Linda Marie is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Here is a news story:
Poll: Anger Over Obama's Birth-Control Policy Spans All Religious Groups

Quote:
The CHQ poll asked: A new U.S. Department of Health and Human Services policy requires religious organizations to provide coverage of abortion-inducing drugs, sterilization, and contraceptives in their health plans, and religious hospitals to provide those services, even when some or all of those practices violate their conscience. Is this a proper extension of government power over religious institutions?"

Following is a percentage breakdown on the responses, recorded by religious belief.

Protestant disapproval 41 percent
Protestant approval 1 percent
Catholic disapproval 27 percent
Catholic approval 1 percent
Non-religious disapproval 14 percent
Non-religious approval 1 percent
Different religious affiliation disapproval 12 percent
Different religious affiliation approval 1 percent
Jewish disapproval 1 percent
And Jewish approval 1 percent.
Looks like even the non-religious believe that this is an improper extension of government power over religious institutions. I think that should be changed to say improper extension of government power over an individual's practice of their religion, not just that of official religious institutions. What about doctors or pharmacists who object? They aren't churches but their right to practice their religion freely is being removed as well.

Free enterprise should determine if they can stay in business without providing contraceptive/abortifacient medicines, services or insurance coverage. People are always free to go someplace else to buy their pills or buy coverage for abortions if their employer supplied insurance doesn't cover it or just refuse to work there if it isn't provided.
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  #22  
Old Feb 7, '12, 5:52 am
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda Marie View Post
Here is a news story:
Poll: Anger Over Obama's Birth-Control Policy Spans All Religious Groups



Looks like even the non-religious believe that this is an improper extension of government power over religious institutions. I think that should be changed to say improper extension of government power over an individual's practice of their religion, not just that of official religious institutions. What about doctors or pharmacists who object? They aren't churches but their right to practice their religion freely is being removed as well.

Free enterprise should determine if they can stay in business without providing contraceptive/abortifacient medicines, services or insurance coverage. People are always free to go someplace else to buy their pills or buy coverage for abortions if their employer supplied insurance doesn't cover it or just refuse to work there if it isn't provided.
Those numbers are not encouraging if they're to be credited (which is uncertain). Obama might have been right in believing he could get away with this.
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  #23  
Old Feb 7, '12, 6:14 am
wondrousgnat wondrousgnat is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

In my lifetime I have seen the legalization of abortion. And no fault divorce. Support for euthenasia. Gay marriage and gay adoption. Attacks against Christianity by the entertainment and news medeias. Now military chaplains are under control. And increasing attempts to weaken, silence and control not only the Catholic church but all Christianity. I noticed years ago that conservative Christian values is a minor issue even among conservative talk show hosts. rarely covering it and in some cases opposing it.

The Catholic church has been leading the fight against these changes. Most of the nonCatholics have surrendered and I think Catholics may be weakening. There are, of course, nonCatholics who are on the same page as us but they are too few in number, not well organized and working indepently. Many nonCatholics may have problems with our faith and I understand that. But in spite of that we need to work together or else religion will be a nonentity within our childrens' lifetimes. Maybe within our own.
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  #24  
Old Feb 7, '12, 7:01 am
Teelynn Teelynn is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wondrousgnat View Post
In my lifetime I have seen the legalization of abortion. And no fault divorce. Support for euthenasia. Gay marriage and gay adoption. Attacks against Christianity by the entertainment and news medeias. Now military chaplains are under control. And increasing attempts to weaken, silence and control not only the Catholic church but all Christianity. I noticed years ago that conservative Christian values is a minor issue even among conservative talk show hosts. rarely covering it and in some cases opposing it.

The Catholic church has been leading the fight against these changes. Most of the nonCatholics have surrendered and I think Catholics may be weakening. There are, of course, nonCatholics who are on the same page as us but they are too few in number, not well organized and working indepently. Many nonCatholics may have problems with our faith and I understand that. But in spite of that we need to work together or else religion will be a nonentity within our childrens' lifetimes. Maybe within our own.
This threat is not to be taken lightly. The prospect of worshiping in homes doesn't seem to be all that impossible of an idea. As I have said before, the buzz word within the administration is: freedom of worship. Quite different from freedom of religion.
In other words, we can go to our Churches and Synagogues and gather there. We cannot carry out those same beliefs once we are outside of those doors. The implications are quite sobering.
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  #25  
Old Feb 7, '12, 7:22 am
meltzerboy meltzerboy is online now
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda Marie View Post
Here is a news story:
Poll: Anger Over Obama's Birth-Control Policy Spans All Religious Groups



Looks like even the non-religious believe that this is an improper extension of government power over religious institutions. I think that should be changed to say improper extension of government power over an individual's practice of their religion, not just that of official religious institutions. What about doctors or pharmacists who object? They aren't churches but their right to practice their religion freely is being removed as well.

Free enterprise should determine if they can stay in business without providing contraceptive/abortifacient medicines, services or insurance coverage. People are always free to go someplace else to buy their pills or buy coverage for abortions if their employer supplied insurance doesn't cover it or just refuse to work there if it isn't provided.
There should be much more Jewish disapproval of this mandate in all branches of Judaism. It may just take a little time for it to filter into the Jewish community. We, of all people, should realize the disastrous consequences of an attack on anyone's religious lilberty.
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  #26  
Old Feb 9, '12, 5:39 am
OriginalJS OriginalJS is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meltzerboy View Post
There should be much more Jewish disapproval of this mandate in all branches of Judaism. It may just take a little time for it to filter into the Jewish community. We, of all people, should realize the disastrous consequences of an attack on anyone's religious lilberty.
It seems to me that no one's religious liberty is being attacked. This looks like a political fight attempting to make the law conform to religious principles. No Catholic, or any other Christian for that matter, is being required to use contraception or have an abortion. Just because an insurance policy might pay for such procedures doesn't mean an insured would have to violate deeply held principles to accept them. In fact, the Church has been openly preaching against the evils of contraception from day one (at least as far as I know) and everyone recognizes its right to do so. There are myriad positions that religious bodies present that members would likely change, if they could. All of us have to obey various laws we may not agree with, and we see our taxes used for much that we deplore. But, our freedom to worship and freedom to speak on issues, as well as freedom to govern our personal lives in accordance with our beliefs remain intact.
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  #27  
Old Feb 9, '12, 6:44 am
Alix1912 Alix1912 is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalJS View Post
It seems to me that no one's religious liberty is being attacked. This looks like a political fight attempting to make the law conform to religious principles. No Catholic, or any other Christian for that matter, is being required to use contraception or have an abortion. Just because an insurance policy might pay for such procedures doesn't mean an insured would have to violate deeply held principles to accept them. In fact, the Church has been openly preaching against the evils of contraception from day one (at least as far as I know) and everyone recognizes its right to do so. There are myriad positions that religious bodies present that members would likely change, if they could. All of us have to obey various laws we may not agree with, and we see our taxes used for much that we deplore. But, our freedom to worship and freedom to speak on issues, as well as freedom to govern our personal lives in accordance with our beliefs remain intact.
You are right, no one is being forced to have an abortion, or use contraceptives, but the government is forcing the Catholic Church and other religous organizations that do not believe in one or more of these things to pay for them. Let's say you are an atheist, would you like it if you were being forced to donate to a church, sure you are not being force to go to church, but you are being force to pay for it. Same thing.....it's great they are not forcing people onto contraceptives or to have abortions like they do in China, but they are still forcing a religious body to pay for something they are morally opposed to.
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  #28  
Old Feb 9, '12, 12:53 pm
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alix1912 View Post
You are right, no one is being forced to have an abortion, or use contraceptives, but the government is forcing the Catholic Church and other religous organizations that do not believe in one or more of these things to pay for them. Let's say you are an atheist, would you like it if you were being forced to donate to a church, sure you are not being force to go to church, but you are being force to pay for it. Same thing.....it's great they are not forcing people onto contraceptives or to have abortions like they do in China, but they are still forcing a religious body to pay for something they are morally opposed to.
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  #29  
Old Feb 9, '12, 3:46 pm
zab zab is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

I think we are going to have to rely on our non- Catholic brothers and sisters to stand with us on. This affects all of us.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1441334477001/
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  #30  
Old Feb 9, '12, 4:04 pm
Vincent N Vincent N is offline
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Default Re: Non Catholics stand with your Catholic Brothers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zab
I think we are going to have to rely on our non- Catholic brothers and sisters to stand with us on. This affects all of us.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1441334477001/
Thanks. It's a video interview of Archbishop Wuerl with Neil Cavuto. The Archbishop makes a compelling case for religious liberty. It's not just a Catholic issue. I recommend it.

There's a funny part in the beginning where a congressman is speaking on the floor and opposing the HHS mandate saying something like "...current Admininstrations to challenge the conscience and reproductive rights of religion."
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