Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

[Bubba Switzler]

Originally Posted by LisaA

The irony is that Santorum and other people of faith have made it clear that UNLIKE THE DEMOCRATS they do not believe in legislating their beliefs....can we say squggly lightbulbs? HHS Mandates? Obamacare? Green energy?

Excellent point.

Next time you find yourself arguing with one of these, propose that the government quit legislating on contraceptives. No funding, no mandates, etc.

[qui est ce]

Originally Posted by Bubba Switzler

Excellent point.

Next time you find yourself arguing with one of these, propose that the government quit legislating on contraceptives. No funding, no mandates, etc.

Here is the problem. The left and the media are constantly calling the mandate CONTRACEPTIVES. They say Santorum is against contraceptives. They leave off the abortion and sterilization part. They leave off the Constitutionality of the mandate.

[Bubba Switzler]

Originally Posted by qui est ce

Here is the problem. The left and the media are constantly calling the mandate CONTRACEPTIVES. They say Santorum is against contraceptives. They leave off the abortion and sterilization part. They leave off the Constitutionality of the mandate.

Even if it were only contraceptives, it's still the case that government is sticking its nose in on the issue. The HHS mandate is exactly that: a mandate. We can quibble about what it's mandating but that is the nature of government, it mandates.

Similarly on funding.

Of course the media is doing its best to create the impression that rejecting the HHS mandate is the bishops banning contraceptives.

So, yeah, clarify that its not just contraceptives but don't let them get away with that sleight of hand.

[LisaA]

Originally Posted by qui est ce

Here is the problem. The left and the media are constantly calling the mandate CONTRACEPTIVES. They say Santorum is against contraceptives. They leave off the abortion and sterilization part. They leave off the Constitutionality of the mandate.

Yes we've said this over and over on this Forum. The LEFT puts it as "denying women's healthcare" so we have to respond and call them out. Aside from that it's not about healthcare at all it's about the Constitution. We need to keep the focus on the real issue which any American, whether or not they agree with a specific religious belief, can support.

What I've done is respond to my LYING Senator who claimed that a small minority is preventing women from getting healthcare (what a crock!), responding to all my Facebook friends who keep promoting that "it's men telling women what to do with their bodies," responding to people at work and even in church who seem to be in a fog about what the LEFT Is doing with this and other issues.

We just have to keep speaking up and speaking the truth. The enemy is powerful and has the MSM but we serve a higher power

Lisa

[qui est ce]

Originally Posted by Bubba Switzler

Even if it were only contraceptives, it's still the case that government is sticking its nose in on the issue. The HHS mandate is exactly what, a mandate. We can quibble about what it's mandating but that is the nature of government, it mandates.

Similarly on funding.

Of course the media is doing its best to create the impression that rejecting the HHS mandate is the bishops banning contraceptives.

So, yeah, clarify that its not just contraceptives but don't let them get away with that sleight of hand.

I heard something today, and I can't remember where. I know it couldn't have been on NPR, which is the only radio station I listened to today. It said the Obama administration is trying to pit women against the Catholic Church.

Obama's policies are clearly divide and conquer. He will not succeed.

[qui est ce]

Originally Posted by LisaA

responding to all my Facebook friends who keep promoting that "it's men telling women what to do with their bodies," responding to people at work and even in church who seem to be in a fog about what the LEFT Is doing with this and other issues.

We just have to keep speaking up and speaking the truth. The enemy is powerful and has the MSM but we serve a higher power

Lisa

Don't get me started on that. "Where are the Women?" lie.


They even share "I support PP" and "like" one another.

And they are church going Catholics.

[Bubba Switzler]

Originally Posted by qui est ce

I heard something today, and I can't remember where. I know it couldn't have been on NPR, which is the only radio station I listened to today. It said the Obama administration is trying to pit women against the Catholic Church. Obama's policies are clearly divide and conquer. He will not succeed.

Oh, without a doubt. Their strategy is to pretend that opposition to the HHS mandate is equal to banning contraceptives which, of course, is a "women's issue" that all right-thinking women will oppose.

They are also working to divide Catholics along by left/right arguing that it's more important to have socialized health care an inconvenience a few bishops with antiquated morals.

GIve them credit for having a Machiavellian sense of political strategy.

[jwinch2]

Originally Posted by qui est ce

I heard something today, and I can't remember where. I know it couldn't have been on NPR, which is the only radio station I listened to today. It said the Obama administration is trying to pit women against the Catholic Church.

Obama's policies are clearly divide and conquer. He will not succeed.

This is 100% correct. Its straight out of the community organizer playbook and has been for a long time.

Originally Posted by Saul Alinski

Pick the target,

freeze it,

personalize it,

and polarize it

The plan that our administration and its supporters are currently following is straight out of the socialist playbook. The radical Left in Mexico, Europe, Asia. . .all of them have targeted the Church for a variety of reasons. The big one being that the Church stands in the way of the socialist agenda they are pushing.

We believe in things like the family being the functional unit of society and the domestic church. We believe in eternal and metaphysical truth rather than truth defined based on our own opinions and preferences. We believe (or we are supposed to) in the principle of subsidiarity, which states that things are best handled at the most local level level possible. We believe in the dignity of working. We believe in liberty which comes from God.

These things get in the way of the state-run utopia that socialists wish to create. Thus, the Church gets targeted.

[qui est ce]

Originally Posted by jwinch2

This is 100% correct. Its straight out of the community organizer playbook and has been for a long time.



The plan that our administration and its supporters are currently following is straight out of the socialist playbook. The radical Left in Mexico, Europe, Asia. . .all of them have targeted the Church for a variety of reasons. The big one being that the Church stands in the way of the socialist agenda they are pushing. We believe in things like: Family, Eternal Truth, Subsidiarity, Work, Faith, Liberty, etc. These things get in the way of the state-run utopia that socialists wish to create. Thus, the Church gets targeted.

It's not working. I see Catholics and their separated brethren uniting behind the bishops. It's already back-firing.

The blood of the martyrs spread the faith.

[jwinch2]

Originally Posted by qui est ce

It's not working. I see Catholics and their separated brethren uniting behind the bishops. It's already back-firing.

The blood of the martyrs spread the faith.

I see similar things but it remains to be seen whether it is: A) true (polling shows little in the way of change among Catholics on issues of abortion and contraception, and; B) lasting. We have short memories and are not good about sustaining long term change on these sorts of things. As a culture, America does not do this well.

In order for this to take hold, our Bishops, etc. are going to have to maintain this for a long time, as in years. They are going to have to remember this the next time someone who gives a good speech comes along. Change such as this is generational in nature. If we stop fighting this and go back to where we were in a few months, there will be no long term improvement.

[_Abyssinia]

Chilling bit of idiocy in that TIME op-ed

http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=27280

-

Obama Overreaches on HHS Mandate

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news...n-hhs-mandate/

-

In defense of the Catholic Church

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...eck=0&denied=1

[Bubba Switzler]

Originally Posted by _Abyssinia

Chilling bit of idiocy in that TIME op-ed[/b]

http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=27280

Lots of great stuff in this article but this stood out for me:

O’Brien ends with a poetic line asserting that the conscience is, “quietly, assuredly, directing ordinary people in the sacred task of living everyday life.” This is precisely what the bishops are pointing out: that living each day is a sacred task. For this reason, the conscience of all men and women should be respected. No one in America should be forced to do something that he or she believes is morally wrong. It is that simple. The current presidential administration is doing exactly what it claims is wrong: imposing its beliefs on others.

[_Abyssinia]

Two Different Worldviews: The HHS Mandate Presents a Teachable Moment

http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=44824

-

America Mag Bails on the Fight for Religious Liberty

http://blog.cardinalnewmansociety.or...gious-liberty/

-

HHS mandate presents problems of principle, practicality, bishop says

http://www.catholicfreepress.org/nat...y-bishop-says/

-

HHS mandate's purpose is sexual liberation, feminist supporter says

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/ne...upporter-says/

-

Bishop Nickless addresses HHS mandate

http://www.catholicglobe.org/Renee2.23.12b.html

-

Catholic CEO calls mandate compromise 'divide and conquer' strategy

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/ne...quer-strategy/

-

The Obama Mandate: The Good News

For about 25 years I’ve studied and written about politics. I’ve taught political science for 15 years. One of the most frustrating things I’ve seen repeatedly is the astonishing degree to which Democrats—including Catholic Democrats—fall in line with whatever their presidents or party heads advocate. I see it again and again, and it never ceases to amaze me. Sure, Republicans will do this, too. But it really does seem worse among Democrats—or at least that’s my longtime observation.

http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=27319

[JimG]

Originally Posted by _Abyssinia

Two Different Worldviews: The HHS Mandate Presents a Teachable Moment

http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=44824

-

America Mag Bails on the Fight for Religious Liberty

http://blog.cardinalnewmansociety.or...gious-liberty/

-

HHS mandate presents problems of principle, practicality, bishop says

http://www.catholicfreepress.org/nat...y-bishop-says/

-

HHS mandate's purpose is sexual liberation, feminist supporter says

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/ne...upporter-says/

-

Bishop Nickless addresses HHS mandate

http://www.catholicglobe.org/Renee2.23.12b.html

-

Catholic CEO calls mandate compromise 'divide and conquer' strategy

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/ne...quer-strategy/

-

The Obama Mandate: The Good News



http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=27319

America Magazine opines that the bishops need to be more pastoral and not so political.

But if the HHS mandated that all insurance policies provide for payment for firearms without copays, as a necessary component of preventive health required for self-protection, no doubt even America would object.

[Bubba Switzler]

Originally Posted by JimG

America Magazine opines that the bishops need to be more pastoral and not so political. But if the HHS mandated that all insurance policies provide for payment for firearms without copays, as a necessary component of preventive health required for self-protection, no doubt even America would object.

That's worse than rubbish, it's ignorant rubbish.

The entire thrust of marxism is to make everything political, to leave no room for anything outside of politics, to view everything through the prism of politics.

The HHS mandate is simply the latest example of that.

I wish the Bishops had taken a harder stand against socialized health care sooner but at this point they literally have a gun against their head. In less than a year they will become criminals.