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  #751  
Old Mar 10, '12, 10:30 am
Bubba Switzler Bubba Switzler is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiljo2050 View Post
I have studied marxism,and you obviously dont know what marxism is if your calling our president this name in a mean spirit.Disagree on policy,but I thought catholics were not suppose to be mean,Anyone thats differnt you crucufy them in spirit.If you were in power any prescribed liberal wouldnt be allowed a job,position of power,stripped of their spirit,you would spank christianity into anyone who differed from your point of view.Differnces are what democracy is all about brother.democracy includes catholic,protestants,muslims,hindu,and people with no faith.Jesus said "come follow me"he did not say "you better follow me"In reality he had the power to bully anybody in the universe.The United states is a country not a church.I love this country,but it could never come between love for god.My lord is way beyond politics.To put faith into politics is blasphemy!plain and simple
If you've studied Marxism then you know that it is a real-live ideology and that those who follow that ideology are called Marxists. While you and I may out our faith in God, Obama and his kind put their faith in Government. Attacking the Catholic Church in order to boost Government is a page right out of Marxism (not that the Marxists invented it).
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  #752  
Old Mar 10, '12, 12:55 pm
JimG JimG is online now
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

“They imagine that accusing the bishops of partisanship is going to spook them into acquiescence; they are wrong, because in this debate we are down to first principles. They imagine that accusing the bishops of being at the beck and call of “cultural warriors” will cause the bishops to blunt the sharpness of their critique of the administration’s “accommodation”; they are wrong on this, too, for the bishops know quite well who declared war on whom in this affair.”
--George Weigel, Obama’s Contraception Spin Machine
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  #753  
Old Mar 10, '12, 1:02 pm
TevereNauta TevereNauta is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Switzler View Post
If you've studied Marxism then you know that it is a real-live ideology and that those who follow that ideology are called Marxists. While you and I may out our faith in God, Obama and his kind put their faith in Government. Attacking the Catholic Church in order to boost Government is a page right out of Marxism (not that the Marxists invented it).
Objective truth. And, lest we forget, Saul Alinsky, Obama's mentor in his own sub-school of Marxism, dedicated Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals to Lucifer--the original rebel. I quote:

Quote:
Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins -- or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom -- Lucifer.
This is who they are. This is what they are. This is what they love.
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  #754  
Old Mar 10, '12, 4:36 pm
_Abyssinia _Abyssinia is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

EWTN: The World Over

Quote:
HELEN ALVARE, associate professor of Law at George Mason University and formerly with the USCCB's Secretariat for Pro-Life Activities, on the recent open letter she co-wrote, opposing the HHS Mandate and signed by thousands professional women.

JIM TOWEY, President of Ave Maria University and former head of the Bush Administration's Office for Faith Based and Community Initiatives, on the lawsuit that Ave Maria has filed against the US government and HHS over the health care mandate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM1qykhjQTg
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  #755  
Old Mar 11, '12, 1:38 pm
JimG JimG is online now
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia View Post
I just watched the above linked interviews with Jim Towey and Helen Alvare. It was quite illuminating, especially the interview with Helen Alvare, which starts at about 24:40 of the program.

Here is a quote from an article by Helen Alvare:
"I will “characterize” what’s happened therefore, without the aforementioned adjective, but in plain terms which leave a reader to understand that the government is channeling Orwell all the same by its: (1) speaking nonsense; (2) with a straight face; and (3) and claiming expert authority is on their side.
. . . It’s a terrible spectacle — watching your own government lie, while claiming that it’s for the good of the citizenry."
--Helen M. Alvare

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...helen-m-alvare
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  #756  
Old Mar 11, '12, 5:04 pm
_Abyssinia _Abyssinia is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

President Obama Creates 'Dueling Prayer Vigils' at the Supreme Court After Following the Lead of Faith Organizations

Quote:
Rev. Patrick J. Mahoney, Director of the Christian Defense Coalition, states;

"Although we are flattered that the President is choosing to follow our lead concerning holding prayer vigils at the Supreme Court during the health care arguments, there are still several troubling concerns.

"The President again seems to be using 'prayer and faith' as a political commodity rather than as sincere held beliefs and values. His prayer vigils are tied to a public relations campaign to influence the public regarding support for 'Obamacare' rather than looking to God in humility and seeking His blessing and guidance.

"It also troubling that President does not celebrate the National Day of Prayer at the White House or attend church on a regular basis, (as he did all during the 2008 campaign) yet he will call for prayer vigils to help support and promote his political agenda.

"Mr. President, prayer should never be about advancing a political agenda but honoring God.

"Finally, the President seems very 'selective' in celebrating and respecting faith and religious freedom. President Obama is calling for public prayer and expressions of faith to support legislation that crushes religious freedom with immoral and unjust HHS mandates against the Catholic Church.

"I would suggest that the President pray and seek God to put forward health care legislation that honors the Constitution, respects religious freedom and protects innocent human life."
http://www.christiannewswire.com/ind...eleaseID=19163

-

The ‘Accommodation’ That Isn’t

http://www.nationalreview.com/blogs/print/292930
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  #757  
Old Mar 12, '12, 12:51 am
oneofmany oneofmany is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

Are all Catholic hospitals non-profit? Some are saying since the hospitals are businesses and they pay taxes, then the government can tell them what they can do with insurance.

How do Catholic hospitals maintain their separate identity?
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  #758  
Old Mar 12, '12, 7:59 am
Incomplete Incomplete is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmany View Post
Are all Catholic hospitals non-profit? Some are saying since the hospitals are businesses and they pay taxes, then the government can tell them what they can do with insurance.

How do Catholic hospitals maintain their separate identity?
I dont' know the rules for maintaining a separate identity, thought there are rules for being non-profit, but this isn't about taxes.

I haven't heard the argument about paying taxes. Every single person pays taxes. That doesn't mean we are slaves to whatever the government asks of us. Otherwise the government could just say, "You can't be Christian anymore" and we'd all have to comply, because you can't even purchase something without paying taxes.

The argument is generally that since they take taxpayer money for things, they have to comply. And it's true, Catholic hospitals do take taxpayer dollars. A large percentage of their clientele pays with Medicare and Medicaid or Tricare or other government health insurers. But if they no longer took taxpayer dollars, they would still have to comply. Smaller businesses have to, and so do places like Christendom college, which doesn't take any government money at all. They don't even accept government grants as payment for students.

And speaking of taking government dollars, think of all the students who receive government grants and loans. That would be most students. Can the government then step in and tell them what their major should be? You would think if they are paying for a person's education, they should be able to, right? Seriously, it makes more sense to be able to tell a student they can only get funds if they major in some particular subject than to say, ok, you as a student takes government funds, I can tell you to go against your religious beliefs.

If the government can just tell everybody who receives taxpayer funds how to live out their religious beliefs, that is indeed a very scary thing.
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  #759  
Old Mar 12, '12, 9:19 am
Bubba Switzler Bubba Switzler is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmany View Post
Are all Catholic hospitals non-profit? Some are saying since the hospitals are businesses and they pay taxes, then the government can tell them what they can do with insurance. How do Catholic hospitals maintain their separate identity?
First, I think you'll find that those who are making such arguments are simply grasping at whatever happens to be at hand as an excuse because one will often hear exaclty the opposite argument (i.e. that when Churches don't pay taxes they have some special obligation or, as Incomplete noted, receiving government funds for some purpose).

But, roughly, the line of thinking is that government can regulate businesses freely and since a Catholic hospital is just a business then it doesn't deseve any special consideration (i.e. respect for conscience). This fits with the idea being promoted by some that exceptions ought to be provided for religious institutions (e.g. Churches) but not to businesses.

However, that is the administration's position (and it defined the exemption very narrowly). It is not the bishops' position.

According ot JReducation (and I have seen occassional references to this but nothing solid), the bishops are fighting for the right of conscience for every Catholic, indeed, every American, not just for non-profit Catholic institutions. In other words, if the bishops got their way, a Catholic small business owner would be exempt from the mandate and could opt not to provide contraceptives, etc. to his employees.

And it is the prospect of that, I suspect, which is driving the administration to refuse to negotiate on this.

But al of this is realy founded on a false foundation: the government does not have carte blanche to regulate businesses and individuals. The bishops ought to join those fighting to have Obamacare ruled unconstitutional in its entirety.
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  #760  
Old Mar 12, '12, 9:24 am
Incomplete Incomplete is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Switzler View Post
But al of this is realy founded on a false foundation: the government does not have carte blanche to regulate businesses and individuals. The bishops ought to join those fighting to have Obamacare ruled unconstitutional in its entirety.
Exactly.
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  #761  
Old Mar 12, '12, 10:13 am
_Abyssinia _Abyssinia is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

Religious Freedom Is Social Justice

The Catholic Lite Brigade goes predictably astray on the contraception mandate.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-george-weigel

-

Huge National Rally Coming Soon Against Obama HHS Mandate

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/03/12/h...a-hhs-mandate/

-

Anti-Catholicism & the White House

http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=28029

-

Becket Fund Lawsuit Against Obama Birth Control Mandate Signals Culture Wars Jump

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ef=mostpopular

-

Bishops Call Day of Prayer, Fasting, Abstinence for Religious Liberty

http://www.pacatholic.org/catholic-e...gious-liberty/
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  #762  
Old Mar 12, '12, 12:26 pm
JimG JimG is online now
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

I realize that there is a lot of anti-Catholicism in this country, but I really find the blatant anti-Catholicism of this particular administration to be remarkable and historic. The Catholic Church has been targeted by the White House as the enemy. This administration has declared war on the Church.

http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=28029
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  #763  
Old Mar 12, '12, 12:30 pm
Bubba Switzler Bubba Switzler is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Abyssinia View Post
Religious Freedom Is Social Justice
The Catholic Lite Brigade goes predictably astray on the contraception mandate.
The article was good but I think it missed a great opportunity to draw clarification from this issue.

When "The Catholic Lite Brigade" talks about "social justice" they mean something quite different from the Catholic Church. The former use the term as a euphemism for marxism, albeit a Church sanctioned variety. Despite their protestations to the contrary, their attack on the bishops makes this quite clear.

By contrast, whatever their sympathy for marxist social justice, the bishiops do not see social justice in this narrow euphemistic way. They are looking at it in the more fundamenal sense of how society is justly ordered and drawing the very obvious (to all but those bent on marxism) conclusion that the HHS mandate is a social disorder on its face.
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  #764  
Old Mar 12, '12, 12:34 pm
Bubba Switzler Bubba Switzler is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimG View Post
I realize that there is a lot of anti-Catholicism in this country, but I really find the blatant anti-Catholicism of this particular administration to be remarkable and historic. The Catholic Church has been targeted by the White House as the enemy. This administration has declared war on the Church.
I don't buy that this is anti-Catholcism in the usual sense of the term. The administration is just charging ahead with its own agenda and crushing anyone who stands in their way. It just happens, in this case, to be the Catholic Church. There are probably some secularists out there who are all to happy to see the Church forced to violate its own morality but I think they are the exception, not the rule. The truth is that this is much worse than mere anti-Catholicism.
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  #765  
Old Mar 12, '12, 1:42 pm
LisaA LisaA is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Switzler View Post
I don't buy that this is anti-Catholcism in the usual sense of the term. The administration is just charging ahead with its own agenda and crushing anyone who stands in their way. It just happens, in this case, to be the Catholic Church. There are probably some secularists out there who are all to happy to see the Church forced to violate its own morality but I think they are the exception, not the rule. The truth is that this is much worse than mere anti-Catholicism.
I agree that it's not specifically anti-Catholicism as you said in the usual way this term is used. But I think that the Catholic Church is and was targeted because it represents millions of people and it is the best known defender of life.

Obama from way back has been militantly anti-life (unless it's a life he approves of and hopefully a Democrat of voting age ) He was militantly pro abortion to the extent of being pro-POST BIRTH ABORTION...look at the outrage regarding the British medical journal that openly discusses euthanasia of imperfect infants. Obama basically supported the same position...that of killing babies that survived abortion.

Given his pandering to Big Feminism and the abortion lobby and Planned Parenthood, the Catholic Church represents that guard at the gate of forcing his agenda. IOW he's not anti Catholic in the usual "Oh they worship Mary and pray to dead people" sense but he is clearly a sworn enemy of what we stand for.

Lisa
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