Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Catholic Living > Spirituality
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Feb 10, '12, 5:59 am
chepner3 chepner3 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Posts: 89
Religion: Catholic
Default I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

This is a continuation of the various discussions on why people leave the Church.

... the feeling of rejection.

Don't ask questions otherwise you're not really Catholic.

We don't want you unless you believe exactly like we do.

If you're at all different, don't bother participating.

Sure you're welcome to sit in the pews and donate your money, but we don't want you at the alter.

If you're homosexual, don't love anyone. If you've married someone who isn't Catholic, it doesn't count to us and you cannot be fully Catholic if you have sex with your husband. If you're a pregnant woman who is about to die in childbirth, we expect you to leave your husband a widower and your other children as orphans. If you're a woman going through a miscarriage, you can't have a D&C because we don't even want doctors trained in the procedure. If you're a woman, you aren't good enough to be one of our leaders. If you're a married couple who are struggling financially and emotionally with caring for the children you already have, don't do anything to postpone another 'blessing'.

Jesus said, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another." John 13:34

I'm not seeing this in the current Catholic Church. Jesus befriended strangers, sinners, the sick and the poor. He didn't say, "When you decide to do as I say, then you can come and hear me speak. If you do otherwise, I condemn you."

I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Feb 10, '12, 6:16 am
Anathama Sit's Avatar
Anathama Sit Anathama Sit is offline
Banned
Greeter
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: August 23, 2011
Posts: 19,545
Religion: Catholic
Send a message via Yahoo to Anathama Sit
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

I have to say I disagree with a great many of those things that are posted. Most of them seem to be false statements that do not accurately reflect the Teachings of the Church.

This is going to be posted in multiple posts becuase my computer is not working well, its runnin IE6 and windows98.

The Church has always allowed one to question their faith and to ask questions. If it did not why would the Church have RCIA and Confirmation classes. How else is one to learn about the faith?

The Church opens her arms to All men. Yet if one freely chooses to embrace Catholicism, they embrace ALL of it.

The Church is very diverse and has many people in it. It encourages active particpation in many of its organizations.

The Church welcomes all to the Altar those who are in a state of grace and who are One with the Catholic Church. Not who donates or who does not donate.

The Church calls everyone to love their neightbor as their self and to love God, even homosexuals. What the CHurch condemns is the practice of homosexuality.

When it comes to Marriage, the CHurch does allow Catholic to marry Non-Catholics, they have to get a dispensation. The marriage is valid in the eyes of the Church provided things are done following a protocal. The reason of this being, the Church takes the Sacrament of Marriage very seriously and wants to do everything to ensure that it is celebrated validly.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Feb 10, '12, 6:23 am
Anathama Sit's Avatar
Anathama Sit Anathama Sit is offline
Banned
Greeter
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: August 23, 2011
Posts: 19,545
Religion: Catholic
Send a message via Yahoo to Anathama Sit
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

part II of the post [sometimes I hate this computer]

The Church does not say anywhere in Magisterial documents nor her Traditions that if one has sex with their spouse they are not Catholic. The Church allows and does not condemn sex between two married people that are married validly inside the Church.

If a woman is pregnant in childbirth and is in danger of dying - Someone else needs to addres this. The reason that I am not answering is because I don't know enough about the Church's teaching on this one to answer it comfortably, same with the one below.

I don't know what a D&C is so I cannot answer this.

The Roman Catholic Church will not and does not ordain women as priests period. Case closed. It's not that women arn't good enough, it is because of the example that Christ gives to us. All the Apostles were men. Traditionally it's been men as well. However woman do perform vital and important functions in the Church and the CC is indebted to them.

As to the last one about the married couple struggling financially, unfortunately I don't know enough of the Church's teaching on this one - someone needs to address it that does.

[last post coming up]
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Feb 10, '12, 6:26 am
Anathama Sit's Avatar
Anathama Sit Anathama Sit is offline
Banned
Greeter
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: August 23, 2011
Posts: 19,545
Religion: Catholic
Send a message via Yahoo to Anathama Sit
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

Final post.

You opened the post with Why people leave the Church, because they feel rejected. We are not our feelings. Whether they felt rejected or not does not have bearing on ontological truth. The Church never rejects anyone, it is open to All men.

The Church does not turn away from anyone. She is there with arms open wide. If anyone turns their back on someone, it is us humans who turn our back on the Church because of many and varied different reasons. Yet the Church is always there wanting to welcome those who have turned away back into her arms.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Feb 10, '12, 6:38 am
Corki's Avatar
Corki Corki is online now
Forum Master
 
Join Date: November 22, 2005
Posts: 13,991
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

Quote:
Originally Posted by chepner3 View Post
This is a continuation of the various discussions on why people leave the Church.

... the feeling of rejection.
So much of what you write here is common misconceptions about Church teaching. I am not sure what you want discussed. Are you looking for ways to counter these claims?

Quote:
Don't ask questions otherwise you're not really Catholic.
Has never been a teaching of the Church. Much of the history of Catholic education is built on a Socratic method and the building of critical thinking skill. Large amounts of parish resources are spent in teaching and answering questions.


Quote:
We don't want you unless you believe exactly like we do.
The Church wants everyone.

Quote:
If you're at all different, don't bother participating.
The Church exists all over the world, has a tremendous amount of diversity in her members and her mission.

Quote:
Sure you're welcome to sit in the pews and donate your money, but we don't want you at the alter.
Do you mean Communion? All Catholics who are in a state of grace are welcome at the altar.

Or do you mean ministries? There are tons of active ministries for lay people these days - altar serving, readers, EMHC, cantors, etc.

Quote:
If you're homosexual, don't love anyone.
Not the teaching of the Church at all.

Quote:
If you've married someone who isn't Catholic, it doesn't count to us and you cannot be fully Catholic if you have sex with your husband.
There are requirements for a marriage to be considered valid but being in an invalid marriage has nothing to do with being "fully Catholic" nor does ones sex practices.

Quote:
If you're a pregnant woman who is about to die in childbirth, we expect you to leave your husband a widower and your other children as orphans.
This situation is so rare. In the few cases where is occurs, there are complex medical and moral issues that would be very hard to sort out from the outside. No, the Church does not expect anyone to leave their husband a widower. She does expect all life to be respected and that medical professionals will do everything they can to protect all of their patients, born and unborn.

Quote:
If you're a woman going through a miscarriage, you can't have a D&C because we don't even want doctors trained in the procedure.
Patently false. There is no prohibition against D&C procedures and certainly none against doctors being trained to do them. Just an urban legend, I am guessing.

Quote:
If you're a woman, you aren't good enough to be one of our leaders.
Another lie. There are many, many women leaders in the Church. There are many, many women saints and there have been several women doctors of the Church.

Quote:
If you're a married couple who are struggling financially and emotionally with caring for the children you already have, don't do anything to postpone another 'blessing'.
Actually, the opposite is true. If your family is struggling financially, the Church fully approves delaying another pregnancy and considers that a responsible parenting choice.

Quote:
Jesus said, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another." John 13:34
AMEN

Quote:
I'm not seeing this in the current Catholic Church.
Why not? Where have you looked? If the above list is any indication, it seems you are getting your ideas about Church teaching from decidedly anti-Catholic sources.

Quote:
Jesus befriended strangers, sinners, the sick and the poor.
Absolutely, and that's why so much of the outreach of the Church is to those groups of people.

Quote:
He didn't say, "When you decide to do as I say, then you can come and hear me speak. If you do otherwise, I condemn you."
Of course not. Nor does the Church.
__________________
“Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights -- for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture -- is false and illusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination.” Saint John Paul II

"It is not “progressive” to try to resolve problems by eliminating a human life." Pope Francis

Last edited by Corki; Feb 10, '12 at 6:52 am.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Feb 10, '12, 6:45 am
Anathama Sit's Avatar
Anathama Sit Anathama Sit is offline
Banned
Greeter
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: August 23, 2011
Posts: 19,545
Religion: Catholic
Send a message via Yahoo to Anathama Sit
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

To the OP,

Is what you orginally posted what you believe about the Church? Or did you post these as a list of why people left the Church? There's a bit of ambiguety here and was wondering if you could clear it up.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Feb 10, '12, 6:47 am
Anathama Sit's Avatar
Anathama Sit Anathama Sit is offline
Banned
Greeter
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: August 23, 2011
Posts: 19,545
Religion: Catholic
Send a message via Yahoo to Anathama Sit
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

Greetings Corki,

Thanks for addressing the three objections that I could not answer. I thought it might be something, but I could not be for sure. Thank you, I just learned more about the Church.

God Bless,
Anathama Sit
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Feb 10, '12, 6:58 am
coachkfan1 coachkfan1 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2010
Posts: 721
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

Quote:
Originally Posted by chepner3 View Post
This is a continuation of the various discussions on why people leave the Church.

... the feeling of rejection.

Don't ask questions otherwise you're not really Catholic.

We don't want you unless you believe exactly like we do.

If you're at all different, don't bother participating.

Sure you're welcome to sit in the pews and donate your money, but we don't want you at the alter.

If you're homosexual, don't love anyone. If you've married someone who isn't Catholic, it doesn't count to us and you cannot be fully Catholic if you have sex with your husband. If you're a pregnant woman who is about to die in childbirth, we expect you to leave your husband a widower and your other children as orphans. If you're a woman going through a miscarriage, you can't have a D&C because we don't even want doctors trained in the procedure. If you're a woman, you aren't good enough to be one of our leaders. If you're a married couple who are struggling financially and emotionally with caring for the children you already have, don't do anything to postpone another 'blessing'.

Jesus said, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another." John 13:34

I'm not seeing this in the current Catholic Church. Jesus befriended strangers, sinners, the sick and the poor. He didn't say, "When you decide to do as I say, then you can come and hear me speak. If you do otherwise, I condemn you."

I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me.
Sure, it's all about you.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Feb 10, '12, 7:10 am
Bernward Bernward is offline
Junior Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: December 17, 2011
Posts: 178
Religion: Catholic - 'Charismatic Traditional'
Send a message via Skype™ to Bernward
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

Hi chepner3

How long have you been suffering all this negativity - it's not difficult to find if you rake about in the muck that fills the media these days.

You feel that 'the Church turned away from me', and judging by the statements you provide, I can understand why you might feel that - it makes for depressing reading. So what's going on ?

1.Who is the Church ? We are all the Church - it is a body of people who follow the teachings of Christ - but are we turning away from you ? No - this forum is evidence to the contrary - surely. Is it possible for us to turn away from you - No -because we are facing God - not you. So we are not going to be turning anywhere, anytime soon. In your own locality it may be that you have yet to meet like-minded people or have difficulty making friends for some reason. Or the friends you have are not leading you anywhere spiritual - check it out.

2. All your negativity defines the human condition into which we are all born, and without access to the Holy Spirit, we would probably all feel similar for one reason or another. So your comments reflect a need for you to turn - not to the Church - but to God, and to ask the Holy Spirit the same questions you are asking here, like we do, and to keep praying the Lord's prayer - the Our Father - the words Jesus gave us - like we do, and to feed your delicate, God-given soul, like we do. Maybe then you will be facing the same direction as we do - so come on - give it a try - start by helping someone you know.

God bless
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Feb 10, '12, 7:26 am
105lynne's Avatar
105lynne 105lynne is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2010
Posts: 822
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corki View Post
So much of what you write here is common misconceptions about Church teaching. I am not sure what you want discussed. Are you looking for ways to counter these claims?



Has never been a teaching of the Church. Much of the history of Catholic education is built on a Socratic method and the building of critical thinking skill. Large amounts of parish resources are spent in teaching and answering questions.




The Church wants everyone.



The Church exists all over the world, has a tremendous amount of diversity in her members and her mission.



Do you mean Communion? All Catholics who are in a state of grace are welcome at the altar.

Or do you mean ministries? There are tons of active ministries for lay people these days - altar serving, readers, EMHC, cantors, etc.



Not the teaching of the Church at all.



There are requirements for a marriage to be considered valid but being in an invalid marriage has nothing to do with being "fully Catholic" nor does ones sex practices.



This situation is so rare. In the few cases where is occurs, there are complex medical and moral issues that would be very hard to sort out from the outside. No, the Church does not expect anyone to leave their husband a widower. She does expect all life to be respected and that medical professionals will do everything they can to protect all of their patients, born and unborn.



Patently false. There is no prohibition against D&C procedures and certainly none against doctors being trained to do them. Just an urban legend, I am guessing.



Another lie. There are many, many women leaders in the Church. There are many, many women saints and there have been several women doctors of the Church.



Actually, the opposite is true. If your family is struggling financially, the Church fully approves delaying another pregnancy and considers that a responsible parenting choice.



AMEN



Why not? Where have you looked? If the above list is any indication, it seems you are getting your ideas about Church teaching from decidedly anti-Catholic sources.



Absolutely, and that's why so much of the outreach of the Church is to those groups of people.



Of course not. Nor does the Church.
^ This!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Feb 10, '12, 7:33 am
hazcompat hazcompat is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: April 26, 2008
Posts: 3,017
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

Live each day as if your future perfection had already occurred, and see your neighbor as a work in progress too. Unity does not mean uniformity. Pray. Come to the pinnacle of prayer, mass. Receive Jesus the pinnacle of the mass.

Saint Seraphim of Sarov:

Why do we judge our neighbors? Because we are not trying to get to know ourselves. Someone busy trying to understand himself has no time to notice the shortcomings of others. Judge yourself — and you will stop judging others. Judge a poor deed, but do not judge the doer. It is necessary to consider yourself the most sinful of all, and to forgive your neighbor every poor deed. One must hate only the devil, who tempted him. It can happen that someone might appear to be doing something bad to us, but in reality, because of the doer's good intentions, it is a good deed. Besides, the door of penitence is always open, and it is not known who will enter it sooner — you, "the judge," or the one judged by you

http://www.fatheralexander.org/bookl...seraphim_e.htm

peace
__________________
Jesus Christ Is Our Father's Simple Plan for Salvation Since Before Time Began.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Feb 10, '12, 7:36 am
St Francis St Francis is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2004
Posts: 11,451
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

Quote:
Originally Posted by chepner3 View Post
This is a continuation of the various discussions on why people leave the Church.

... the feeling of rejection.

Don't ask questions otherwise you're not really Catholic.
I don't know what this means, unless maybe the cold shoulder I get when I won't go on anti-nuclear marches at a peace&socialjustice-type parish.

Quote:
We don't want you unless you believe exactly like we do.
Catholics must hold certain beliefs to really be in full communion with the Church, like the divinity of Christ, etc. But Catholics are allowed to have different ideas in matters of prudence, like the best way to achieve helping those in need.

Quote:
If you're at all different, don't bother participating.
What does this mean? My parish is very welcoming of us even tho we live far away and have little money, and there is a wide variety of people in our parish.

Quote:
Sure you're welcome to sit in the pews and donate your money, but we don't want you at the alter.

If you're homosexual, don't love anyone.
Sex is not love. Homosexuals are called to chastity just like anyone else, and their situation is no different from that of many people whonrealize that for one reason or another they will never marry. No one, however, is forbidden to love others. Mother Teresa loved people.

Quote:
If you've married someone who isn't Catholic, it doesn't count to us
Right, as a Catholic, you need to have a sacramental marriage, so you need to be married in the Church or have your marriage blessed. The former is not forbidden and the latter is very easy to accomplish. Unless of course one of you is divorced and there is no annullment, in which case that person may still be married to someone else.

Quote:
and you cannot be fully Catholic if you have sex with your husband.
If there is no sacramental marriage, then this is like sex outside of marriage. You can refrain from either the sacraments or from sex until the situation is straightened out.

Quote:
If you're a pregnant woman who is about to die in childbirth, we expect you to leave your husband a widower and your other children as orphans.
We cannot kill people even if it will save someone's life. Just because in this one narrow area a woman's life can be saved doesn't make it right; if a pregnant women needed a heart transplant, would it be ok to kill an Alzheimer's patient for his heart to save her life and prevent her husband from becoming a widow and her children from becoming orphans?

Quote:
If you're a woman going through a miscarriage, you can't have a D&C because we don't even want doctors trained in the procedure.
Never heard this one, altho I did hear about a controversy a few years ago in whiched students' training in performing D&Cs was going to be required to be via abortion. A d&C after a miscarriage is not immoral.

Quote:
If you're a woman, you aren't good enough to be one of our leaders.
If you are a woman, you can't be a "father" in any sense of the word. Why would you argue with God about His priesthood?

But women have had many influential positions in the Church and headed larger organizations than many parish priests do. And the person most highly regarded by the Church throughout the ages has been a woman: the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Quote:
If you're a married couple who are struggling financially and emotionally with caring for the children you already have, don't do anything to postpone another 'blessing'.
You can use NFP to postpkne having children; you just can't use artificial birth control to ensure that you can have sex whenever you please while avoiding the possibility of conception.

Quote:
Jesus said, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another." John 13:34
Yes, and part of helping others is helping them to live so s to be able to attain Heaven.

What mother would let a child stick a fork into an electrical socket? Wouldn't she forbid that, even if the child was very unhappy about it and did not understand why she wouldn't let him do that?

Quote:
I'm not seeing this in the current Catholic Church. Jesus befriended strangers, sinners, the sick and the poor. He didn't say, "When you decide to do as I say, then you can come and hear me speak. If you do otherwise, I condemn you."
No one is saying that one cannot listen, and nothing you have written here is an example of that. But Christ did say: Go and sin no more. Christ did let His followers who couldn't handle His teaching leave Him. And Christ did let the rich man leave Him.

Quote:
I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me.
Oh, when was the time that the Church allowed divorced people to remarry, women to abort, people to use abc? Seems to me that you are the one rejecting Church teachings which have been around for a couple of thousand years. It's not like the Church suddenly put all this into place.
__________________


"The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes; she is tolerant in practice because she loves. The enemies of the Church are tolerant in principle because they do not believe; they are intolerant in practice because they do not love."
-Rev. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P



Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Feb 10, '12, 7:40 am
Ben F's Avatar
Ben F Ben F is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: April 9, 2009
Posts: 605
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

No matter what the reason for leaving the Church, leaving the Church is leaving Christ. Christ does not want us to accept him partially. It´s all or nothing. The Church reflects his will. Jesus spits out of His mouth lukewarm disciples. So does His Church. Repent and come home, if you have ever left. God bless
__________________
My daughter and wife, and I.


If you keep my commandments, you are my disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Feb 10, '12, 8:00 am
raaucoin raaucoin is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2009
Posts: 480
Religion: catholic
Default Re: I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me

Quote:
Originally Posted by chepner3 View Post
I didn't turn away from the Church, the Church turned away from me.
I use to feel this way too. Then one day I was inspired to find out exactly what the Church actually teaches and WHY.

I pray you will too.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Catholic Living > Spirituality

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8479Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: Weejee
5153CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: Vim71
4429Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: daughterstm
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3864SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3763Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3332Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3288Poems and Reflections
Last by: tonyg
3225Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3116For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Weejee



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:53 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.