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  #31  
Old Feb 13, '12, 11:23 pm
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Inego de Loyola Inego de Loyola is offline
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate13 View Post
I think the other poster should read the OP's post again:
New thread here.
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  #32  
Old Feb 14, '12, 6:01 am
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Sailor Kenshin Sailor Kenshin is offline
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

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Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
Sorry, I also want to post about climate change itself.

We have known for 150 years that carbon dioxide warms the atmosphere. If has been scientifically proven. There is no doubt.

We know burning fossil fuels releases carbon dioxide. This can be pro9ven in any scientific lab. There is no doubt.

No doubt humans release carbon dioxide. No doubt carbon dioxide warms the atmosphere. Yet people still claim there is doubt that humans are warming the atmosphere. They claim this is politically motivated, despite the fact that the Greenhouse Effect was scientifically proven in 1859. What political motivation did John Tyndall have in 1859 to fake the results of the Greenhouse Effect? I would love to know.

People claim that, since the temperature of our earth has always fluctuated, it is impossible for humans to cause the temperature to change. I would counter this by saying forest fires have always occurred, yet humans can still create MORE forest fires. Yes, levels of CO2 in our atmosphere naturally go up and down, and this naturally changes the earth's temperature. But that does not mean man cannot artificially raise the temperature by releasing artificially large amounts of CO2.


People deny climate change based on interpreting ice caps, or other nonsense. Forget all that. Go back to the basic science. If you deny that man is heating the earth, which of these is false?

1. The Greenhouse effect, which was proven in 1859, that CO2 and other gases trap heat on earth?

or

2. That burning oil releases carbon dioxide?


One of these must be false. Because if burning oil releases CO2, and CO2 heats the earth, then burning Co2 heats the earth. And if you think the greenhouse effect is flawed, I ask you to look at the numerous scientific proofs of it from over 100 years ago and ask what they did wrong. You would win a Nobel prize if you proved the Greenhouse effect is wrong.
So there must be a lot of evil SUVs on Mars, because that, too, is warming.

They don't award the Nobel Prize on merit. No one is stopping you from recycling; they ARE stopping the rest of us from the freedom not to recycle, not to use dangerous fluorescent light bulbs, and ultimately, to enjoy religious freedom.
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  #33  
Old Feb 14, '12, 6:09 am
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

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Originally Posted by lynnvinc View Post
Assuming anthropogenic climate change (ACC) is real and happening and harming and killing people (and others of God's creatures), and we are all responsible for the greenhouse gases we emit (and responsible for reducing them in whatever feasible ways we can), how much of a sin would it be to deny ACC is happening, and refuse to do sensible things to reduce one's greenhouse gases in practical and feasible ways?

A related question is how much of a sin is it not only to deny ACC & refuse to reduce one's GHGs in any way, but also campaign vigorously to convince others that ACC is not happening, thereby convincing them not to reduce their GHGs?

I know both these would be wrong (assuming ACC is happening), but are they venial or serious sins? At what point does killing people become a serious sin? 10,000,000 people responsible for killing one person; 1000 people responsible for killing one person, 100 people responsible for killing one person, 10 people responsble for killing one person; or one killing one? Also, the intentionality -- a person not really knowing about his/her contributions to others' deaths (which, it seems, would not be a sin at all); a person not putting forth effort to understand how he/she might be contributing to others' deaths (even though the information is easily available); a person refusing to accept what scientists, popes, and others (who claim ACC is real) say & not caring if he/she is contributing to others' deaths; a person actually knowing ACC is real, but yet campaigning to convince others it is not real?

Is there some point at which it is a more serious sin or less serious sin.

NOTE: This is not for a discussion about whether or not ACC is real, only about whether IF it is real, how much of a sin would it be to deny ACC, refuse to reduce one's contributions to it, and strive to convince others it is not real.
IF angels exist, and IF they can enter the material world, and IF they could dance, how many could dance on the head of a pin?
  #34  
Old Feb 15, '12, 3:22 am
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agnes therese agnes therese is offline
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

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Originally Posted by sedonaman View Post
IF angels exist, and IF they can enter the material world, and IF they could dance, how many could dance on the head of a pin?
If you don't like threads involving hypothetical questions, there's no forum rule that you must respond.
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  #35  
Old Feb 15, '12, 3:30 am
Inkwell Inkwell is offline
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

The theory of Global Warmig- sorry, Climate Change- states that the damage to the world would be incomprehensible- millions, if not billions of humans would die, near every single person would suffer in some way or another, and the damage to global ecosystems would be twice as bad. So yes, if, hypothetically, Climate Change is real, it would be a sin to ignore it and pretend nothing is happening. But I think it's all just fear-mongering to give politicians a moral standpoint and to gain anti-climate change corporations more money. That said, it never hurts to be on the safe side, and I know recycling is a useful thing, so I make an effort to recycle recyclables and to turn off lights and electronics when not in use. I lose nothing for it, after all.
  #36  
Old Feb 15, '12, 6:10 am
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

IF the Church declares that Greenism is the new Word and ignoring it is a sin, THEN that is the day I leave.

This would constitute worship of the created, rather than the Creator. IF that's the case, why not just be a pagan?
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  #37  
Old Feb 15, '12, 6:36 am
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

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Originally Posted by Inkwell View Post
The theory of Global Warmig- sorry, Climate Change- states that the damage to the world would be incomprehensible- millions, if not billions of humans would die, near every single person would suffer in some way or another, and the damage to global ecosystems would be twice as bad. So yes, if, hypothetically, Climate Change is real, it would be a sin to ignore it and pretend nothing is happening. But I think it's all just fear-mongering to give politicians a moral standpoint and to gain anti-climate change corporations more money. That said, it never hurts to be on the safe side, and I know recycling is a useful thing, so I make an effort to recycle recyclables and to turn off lights and electronics when not in use. I lose nothing for it, after all.
Of course this is assuming that the "fixes" for AGW, are not also killing people right now. Such as "alternative" fuels which have driven up the cost of food causing people in third world countries to starve (and even people in our own country experience hunger). Or population control which has led to not only voluntary contraception and abortion, but government enforced abortion and contraception.
  #38  
Old Feb 15, '12, 6:45 am
sedonaman sedonaman is offline
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

About as much of a sin as it is to deny a fabricated crisis.
  #39  
Old Feb 15, '12, 2:44 pm
atmmgraves atmmgraves is offline
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

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Originally Posted by agnes therese View Post
If you don't like threads involving hypothetical questions, there's no forum rule that you must respond.
It could be that he/she does not DISlike the thread or topic, but is simply offering his/her opinion. Like I will do here: Global Warming is a gigantic hoax. The concrete reality that has been born into existance because of the created hoax of Global Warming is the empowerment of people who really really do seek to take away our choices of how we light our homes, what we drive, how large our families should be, what we eat - basically sticking their noses in our day to day affairs - all the while encouraging abortion and birth control because - after all! - we are nothing but dirty, nasty humans succling the life out of our virginal Mother Earth, as we are, of course, the cause Man Made Global Warming.

God Bless.
  #40  
Old Feb 15, '12, 3:11 pm
garn9173 garn9173 is offline
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

I'll believe in climate change when i'm running the AC in winter or furnace in summer.
  #41  
Old Feb 15, '12, 3:16 pm
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

This can't be answered since insufficient evidence has been introduced to demonstrate this "reality."
  #42  
Old Feb 15, '12, 3:37 pm
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Gabriel Serafin Gabriel Serafin is offline
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

The debate is not whether global warming is occurring, but rather what is causing the warming. Many scientists contend the change is merely a cyclical change. After all, much of the U.S. was once covered by glaciers which melted away with a global warming cycle millions of years ago.

The problem is that it has become a political issue, and for politicians, a crisis is a terrible thing to waste. The Marxist left has used the issue as an excuse to squelch Capitalism and industry, while the greatest polluting countries in the world such as Russia and China continue business as usual.

John Coleman, founder of the Weather Channel shared his views on Global Warming:

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an illusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus. Link source
  #43  
Old Feb 15, '12, 3:46 pm
andrewstx andrewstx is offline
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

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Originally Posted by lynnvinc View Post
Thanks, Nate and also Bartolome Casas,

I am a Secular Carmelite and the topic I have to address today is St. Teresa's FOUNDATIONS, Chapters 1 & 2, on "Salvation of Souls." I have also been concerned for 22 years about the souls of those who refuse to accept what I communicate to them about ACC......long before it ever became a political issue (both political parties were bad on it back then).

In fact, there was virtually no one into this, except JPII and a few religious people. We formed the Illinois Interfaith Council on Climate Change. Now in Texas, I've tried to do something at my parish, but my priest is afraid of the Rush Limbaugh Catholics in the parish; at least he has allowed me to leave a pamphlet in the vestibule, "A Catholic Response to Climate Change," in which I promote "The Little Way of Environmental Healing," calling on people to do whatever tiny things they can to mitigate climate change.

Anyway, since my efforts have fallen completely flat, some years back I was about to give up and remain silent on the issue, just continuing to do my own small and large deeds to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, when that very week the Sunday reading was on how it is a sin when someone sees someone else doing wrong not to try and correct him or her. I can't remember the verse, but I figured I must continue to inform people about ACC and the many solutions, most of them cost-effective.

My motives are simple -- to help reduce harm to life on earth and to save souls. I've done a terrible terrible job on both front. I just alienate people further. I'm not a people person.

All I have is my prayers. And it is interesting that is how St. Teresa of Avila felt when hearing about all the souls being lost in the Indies for want of Christian instruction. She writes,
"I cried out to the Lord, begging Him that He give me the means to be able to do something to win some souls to His service, since the devil was carrying away so many, and that my prayer would do some good since I wasn't able to do anything else. I was very envious of those who for love of our Lord were able to be engaged in winning souls, though they might suffer a thousand deaths. And thus it happens to me that when we read the lives of the saints that they converted souls, I feel much greater devotion, tenderness, and envy than over all the martyrdoms they suffered. This is the inclination the Lord has given me, for it seems to me that He prizes a soul that through our diligence and prayer we gain for Him, through His mercy, more than all the services we can render Him."
I realize that contributing to ACC by not inflating one's tires or failing to carry a hanky to wipe hands in public restrooms, or a failing to bring reusable bags are not in and of themselves sins. But it seemed to me that the complete refusal to do anything at all over many years and decades, especially since JPII and BXVI have repeatedly called us to do so, could amount to some sin; and when such a huge portion of the population together is causing such terrible harm (since 2008 I've been made aware by a top NASA climate scientist that we could be headed for runaway warming and annihilation of all life on earth, if we continue a business-as-usual path), somehow this did amount to a sin, though I wasn't sure if it was a serious or venial sin.

You have cleared that up now. I'll continue to pray that people mitigate ACC, but I don't have to be as concerned about their souls.....a huge burden off my mind & heart.

I can't tell whether ACC is a global fact, but... It certainly seems very true here in Texas. We have been in very bad drought for years, and in spite of a light snow earlier this week, it has already been in the 80s here.

I have buds on my roses despite the light snow, and it will be back in the 80s soon.

The drought and heat have caused terrible wild fires and due to burn bans I have not been able to barbeque in two years.

I am kind of thinking that denying climate change can be possibly ascribed to Texas' economy being nearly entirely oil based.
  #44  
Old Feb 15, '12, 7:05 pm
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

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Originally Posted by Nate13 View Post
Lol buying them or recycling should not be mandated, but they save money in some cases and are more efficient. I really don't look into how environmentally friendly they actually are. Any idea how environmentally friendly the new led lights are? I believe those are the newest fad.
Good for you.
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  #45  
Old Feb 15, '12, 7:09 pm
lynnvinc lynnvinc is offline
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Default Re: How much of a sin is it to deny climate change?

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Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
Fluorescent light bulbs are far more toxic in manufacture than regular light bulbs. Believing that recycling is a must and having these dangerous bulbs forced on us is just one more step in the direction of marxism, and we've already come a long way down that road.
We've been thru this CF bulb issue here on CAF before. The amount of mercury emitted in burning coal for electricity is much greater for incandescent bulbs than CF bulbs....and that difference is much greater than the mercury entailed if CF bulbs are not desposed of property.

That mercury issue is another pollution issue (among many) that would be addressed by many of the measures that also reduce GHGs and save money. It is a win-win-win situation to do the right thing environmentally, the least harmful things.

And pray tell, how is getting off the grid by generating one's own energy or saving money from environmental measures going to lead to marxism?
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