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  #1  
Old Feb 12, '12, 9:10 pm
OrdinaryMelkite OrdinaryMelkite is offline
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Default Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

I'm a Whitney fan------I grew up with her music and she is one of my favorite artists. But I just don't get it. (Again, bear with me, please----I need to get this off my chest).

I understand that she made wrong choices and in many ways threw away her talent.................but on a lot of message boards (NOT this one, so far) there seems to be this attitude of "she was a crackhead......who cares?" (BTW, she did cocaine.......not crack. Crack is ususally for lower income people. Not that it matters.)

Folks seem to think that basically she does not even DESERVE to be acknowledged for the good she DID bring to the world----and that basically the media and the public should not even spend too much time on her----since ultimately since she had somewhat of a tragic unfortunate life (her drug use) that automatically disqualifies her from getting ANY sympathy.

Basically-------"the troops getting killed overseas and what's going on in Greece are more important than her because she made the unfortunate choice of doing drugs."

Well----

1) I hate to sound like too "soft" here----but ALL of us have done something we are not proud of and have messed up up bad. I personally have messed up MASSIVELY. I have always hoped that my conversion to Christianity and my confessions and repentance are enoght for God to forgive me.
I have done massive amounts of pornogrpahy, have lied, have manipulated and done other things I am not proud of and regret now and hope that God has forgiven me. Almost EVERYONE has fallen here-----but I have gotten back up and STRUGGLE with my sins and try continually to change.

2) That's what Whitney was doing. She had left her nightmarish marriage and was trying to rebuild her career. She had quit drugs and was struggling (like ME) with going back and forwards with her addiction. She may have forgotten that she couldn't drink anymore and did drink that night---maybe that and the Xanax she was taking killed her-----we DON'T KNOW, folks------let's wait for the toxicology report---------
The point is----she admitted she had screwed up and was trying to rebuild her life with God's help-------------ALL of us have messed up----
EVEN army people. So because she was a human beings that means her God-given talent and joy she brought to people and influence to American Society should not be recognized?

3) I just feel these people who condemn her as "not being worthy of all the coverage" are basically people who have made celebrities "standard" by which we measure moral behavior in this country----unfortunately.
We make celebrities our Gods---instead of making ordinary people----our parents, our teachers, etc. our heroes----and when these same "Gods" do no live up to our "standards," we condemn them and say "Oh, forget them."

The only ones are perfect is the Holy Trinity----nobody else.

We can make other people heroes and "role models," but they are NOT perfect and even they have flaws. IF (again, IF ) you must make celebrities "THE role models," bear in mind------even they stumble and fall----and even they try to live up to other people's expectations.
Hey----even ordinary people (including our troops) ShOULD be honored----but honoring a genius and influential artist in America is NOT bad. Most geniuses (for the most part) have demons with them----remember that.

Hopefully these people who criticize her and say she is not worth mourning will have soembody mourn for THEM when they die, since NOBODY is perfect but GOD and JESUS and even THEY have sinned and made mistakes.

4) Whitney's death is not meaningful? What does the death of service members have to do with the other, anyways? We can't honor BOTH?

5) Whatever she did, whatever tragedy overtook her life----we do not know the state of her souls and we do not know where she is now. She repented of her life before she died and she may have repented at the last moment of her life.

And however she screwed up her life later in life---------------the joy and magic she brought to people's lives----and the greatness of her talent----FAR outweighs any of the negative stuff that came later. Sorry if some people can't handle that.

Yes, honor our troops. But also take the time to honor (and mourn) the tragedy of a great talent that was lost due to drug addiction----but who still managed to shine bright at the end.

Thank you for reading. I will now stop the rant. Just very outraged right now.

I other words-----SOME people are being VERY SELF-RIGHTEOUS and very OVER-JUDGEMENTAL right now.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I will pray for her and I will pray that most of us earn God's mercy at the end.
Through the prayers of the Mother Of God, have mercy on us and help us. Amen.
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  #2  
Old Feb 12, '12, 10:03 pm
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chris62 chris62 is offline
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

Seems strange that she is being treated like that, while other recent celebrity deaths are treated so differently, eg Amy W, Jacko...
I liked her. She sang some good Gospel songs in her time and hope and pray she will be with God before too long if not already.
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  #3  
Old Feb 12, '12, 10:06 pm
Deus_lo_vult Deus_lo_vult is offline
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Post Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

1. I think what people have a problem with is that when someone famous like Whitney Houston tragically passes away it monopolizes all the news coverage for basically the rest of the day; amidst all this hoopla over an iconic celebrity's death, the tragedies affecting ordinary people are pushed aside, and in so doing we tacitly accord famous people more dignity than the average person. It is unfair because in God's sight, all humans, famous or not, have equal dignity.

Now Whitney is entitled to our prayers as much as the next person, but not more so. I've yet to see the killings of innocents in Syria continuously occupy a 6 hour loop of news coverage.

2. Not to speak ill of the dead (Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord) but people like Whitney Houston and Michael Jackson were given everything they wanted; their lives were at one time, probably when their careers started, (relatively) carefree and luxurious; they were fussed over by handlers and servants, and the way they showed their gratitude was to abuse their bodies with narcotics.

Whitney left behind a daughter who was so distraught over the news of her mother's death that she collapsed and was taken to the hospital in an ambulance. Now she'll have to live the rest of her life without her mother, and she may (God forbid), fall prey to the same temptations that ended her mother's life.

I hope that helps explain the popular reception of the news. I would NEVER condone speaking ill of the dead, or having a callous opinion of the death of a human being in an occasion that should be nothing less than solemn.

Very few spurn the idea of redemption or that all humans are redeemed from SOMETHING, because we all commit evil, it's in our nature, but, it depends upon sticking to the straight and narrow and not forgetting to lean on God, and family for support. The deaths of celebrities like Whitney Houston are completely needless and tragic.

Objections?

Last edited by Deus_lo_vult; Feb 12, '12 at 10:24 pm.
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  #4  
Old Feb 12, '12, 10:08 pm
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

Thank you for posting this. I am a member of some other boards and have run into what you have described and I found it very horrible. I am thankful that all that I have seen posted on this board has been very supportive of Whitney Houston.
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  #5  
Old Feb 12, '12, 10:14 pm
soylatte3 soylatte3 is offline
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

Rant away - I'm a fan of Ms. Whitney. I said a prayer for her during mass today. I'll probably be singing more Whitney Houston songs during karaoke...
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  #6  
Old Feb 12, '12, 10:54 pm
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

Many of us feel for you and Whitney's family. Let's pray for her and those who miss her.
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  #7  
Old Feb 12, '12, 11:21 pm
OrdinaryMelkite OrdinaryMelkite is offline
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

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Originally Posted by soylatte3 View Post
Rant away - I'm a fan of Ms. Whitney. I said a prayer for her during mass today. I'll probably be singing more Whitney Houston songs during karaoke...
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  #8  
Old Feb 12, '12, 11:43 pm
OrdinaryMelkite OrdinaryMelkite is offline
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_lo_vult View Post
1. I think what people have a problem with is that when someone famous like Whitney Houston tragically passes away it monopolizes all the news coverage for basically the rest of the day; amidst all this hoopla over an iconic celebrity's death, the tragedies affecting ordinary people are pushed aside, and in so doing we tacitly accord famous people more dignity than the average person. It is unfair because in God's sight, all humans, famous or not, have equal dignity.

Now Whitney is entitled to our prayers as much as the next person, but not more so. I've yet to see the killings of innocents in Syria continuously occupy a 6 hour loop of news coverage.

2. Not to speak ill of the dead (Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord) but people like Whitney Houston and Michael Jackson were given everything they wanted; their lives were at one time, probably when their careers started, (relatively) carefree and luxurious; they were fussed over by handlers and servants, and the way they showed their gratitude was to abuse their bodies with narcotics.

Whitney left behind a daughter who was so distraught over the news of her mother's death that she collapsed and was taken to the hospital in an ambulance. Now she'll have to live the rest of her life without her mother, and she may (God forbid), fall prey to the same temptations that ended her mother's life.

I hope that helps explain the popular reception of the news. I would NEVER condone speaking ill of the dead, or having a callous opinion of the death of a human being in an occasion that should be nothing less than solemn.

Very few spurn the idea of redemption or that all humans are redeemed from SOMETHING, because we all commit evil, it's in our nature, but, it depends upon sticking to the straight and narrow and not forgetting to lean on God, and family for support. The deaths of celebrities like Whitney Houston are completely needless and tragic.

Objections?
I was speaking of the poople who basically are saying in other boards and generally in the internet-----"Why are you spending all of your time on a crack head who threw her life away? Why don't we cover (like you said) the innocents in Syria or the army people dying overseas?"

The media is covering this CNN particularly in the days before WH's death had made the tragedies in Syria their No. 1 story----they are just also finding time to cover the life of an influential, talented musical genius (some have called her the greatest singer EVER----seriously) now that she has died.

And again------whatever tragedies her life was beset with (and also the BAD and TRAGIC choices she admittedly made) my point was------ALL of us have done this. She just happened to have a bigger talent than us and was in the public eye more. She also influenced (in one way or another and LIKE IT or NOT) Ameircan society----in the influence on artists and in the sheer joy and pleasure that her God-given talent gave to miilions all over the world.

Surely we can acknowledge the good and joy she gave to people, right?

And also use her death as a commentary and cautionary tale on how even the best of us can fall prey to ruin by the SCOURGE that is Drug Addiction?

Even geniuses have demons. Some even say that's how they use their genius for the good.

And YES, we are ALL equal in God's eyes----------but a small minority of us have talents that mark us out from the pack----and those talents mark us out also as "God-touched." Of course we are going to acknowledge those, of course. Come on.

MJ and WH are examples of that. Among many others. Soldiers are to be acknowledged and honored, but very few of them are special and "God-touched," you will admit. Yes, spotlight the light of the media on the Syrian massacres and injustices around the world----but also acknowledge the "special, God-touched" people amongst us.

Finally----as Christians/Catholics, we are all called to charity, compassion, and trust in God's will and purposes. God will know what to do with sister Whitney's soul. HE will decide whether she "threw her life" away on drugs. I am simply following the tents of my Catholic/Christian faith.

Just saying.
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  #9  
Old Feb 12, '12, 11:48 pm
OrdinaryMelkite OrdinaryMelkite is offline
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

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Originally Posted by svid2 View Post
Many of us feel for you and Whitney's family. Let's pray for her and those who miss her.
I am indeed. Thanks for the reminder.
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  #10  
Old Feb 13, '12, 12:03 am
Bob Crowley Bob Crowley is offline
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

I'm sorry to say this, but on another post in this forum, I stated that when I was wondering about her ultimate fate, I got this heartache sensation. Personally I'm a bit negative.

Let's ignore all the hoopla from the media, of any sort, and look at it how God looks at it, or try to.

He sees the lot. He sees the cocaine being purchased at outlandish prices, the stuff being cut up on the table, the snorting. He sees the tantrums, the waste of resources, the egotistical claims that they're underpaid (eg. a certain star who a few months ago threw away his role in a show because he wanted a million dollars an episode, while others starve). He sees every second of a person's life.

Of course he also sees the attempts to go straight, the attempts at redemption.

He misses nothing. Not a thing. Nor is He swayed by personal opinion, regardless of how many fans or enemies a person may have had. And He's certainly not going to be swayed by what we want, whether we were a fan or not.

I've mentioned often before that the night my own father died, he appeared in my room, we argued and conversed and at the end he gave this terrifying scream and disappeared.

But I'm also convinced he was judging himself, going by some of the things he admitted that same night eg. "I can't believe how cruel and stupid I've been", "I've been an absolute mongrel to you", "There's no hope for me. All I was supposed to do was to look after my own family, and I didn't even do that!" etc. It was completely out of character for him to make such admissions. So he was judging himself ("By your your own words you will be acquitted, and by your own words you will be condemned").

Equally I'm convinced Whitney Houston would have judged herself within a few minutes of death, when she had her own life played back to her, devoid of music clips, the papparazzi, the fans etc, right down to the words she said ("I tell you, on the day of judgement, a man will account for every useless word" - as I'm pretty sure my father did).

As I said, I got this sort of heartache feeling, and that's all I can say. Our personal opinions won't come into it. I'm not writing her off as an exercise in cynicism, but I do feel negative.

As a general comment, I think God thinks that people who get involved in drugs have made a stupid decision. They've been warned often enough. And that comment goes for anyone.

I do think it's about time we stopped thinking God is a softie. He's not, and in some ways the more wealth, privilege and power we've got, the more we're going to answer for.

I'm sorry, but that's how I feel about it. Maybe I'm being unsympathetic, as I've never taken hard drugs in my life, and while I thought she had a beautiful voice and could certainly sing, I was not a fan. But I'm also reporting what I felt. Simple as that.

Last edited by Bob Crowley; Feb 13, '12 at 12:07 am. Reason: Missed a relevant quote
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  #11  
Old Feb 13, '12, 12:16 am
OrdinaryMelkite OrdinaryMelkite is offline
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Crowley View Post
I'm sorry to say this, but on another post in this forum, I stated that when I was wondering about her ultimate fate, I got this heartache sensation. Personally I'm a bit negative.

Let's ignore all the hoopla from the media, of any sort, and look at it how God looks at it, or try to.

He sees the lot. He sees the cocaine being purchased at outlandish prices, the stuff being cut up on the table, the snorting. He sees the tantrums, the waste of resources, the egotistical claims that they're underpaid (eg. a certain star who a few months ago threw away his role in a show because he wanted a million dollars an episode, while others starve). He sees every second of a person's life.

Of course he also sees the attempts to go straight, the attempts at redemption.

He misses nothing. Not a thing. Nor is He swayed by personal opinion, regardless of how many fans or enemies a person may have had. And He's certainly not going to be swayed by what we want, whether we were a fan or not.

I've mentioned often before that the night my own father died, he appeared in my room, we argued and conversed and at the end he gave this terrifying scream and disappeared.

But I'm also convinced he was judging himself, going by some of the things he admitted that same night eg. "I can't believe how cruel and stupid I've been", "I've been an absolute mongrel to you", "There's no hope for me. All I was supposed to do was to look after my own family, and I didn't even do that!" etc. It was completely out of character for him to make such admissions. So he was judging himself ("By your your own words you will be acquitted, and by your own words you will be condemned").

Equally I'm convinced Whitney Houston would have judged herself within a few minutes of death, when she had her own life played back to her, devoid of music clips, the papparazzi, the fans etc, right down to the words she said ("I tell you, on the day of judgement, a man will account for every useless word" - as I'm pretty sure my father did).

As I said, I got this sort of heartache feeling, and that's all I can say. Our personal opinions won't come into it. I'm not writing her off as an exercise in cynicism, but I do feel negative.

As a general comment, I think God thinks that people who get involved in drugs have made a stupid decision. They've been warned often enough. And that comment goes for anyone.

I do think it's about time we stopped thinking God is a softie. He's not, and in some ways the more wealth, privilege and power we've got, the more we're going to answer for.

I'm sorry, but that's how I feel about it. Maybe I'm being unsympathetic, as I've never taken hard drugs in my life, and while I thought she had a beautiful voice and could certainly sing, I was not a fan. But I'm also reporting what I felt. Simple as that.
You are entitled to what you feel.

My point is-------leave her to God----who IS indeed just and all Love AND Justice.
HE will decide.
I'm just speaking out against those (mostly not here) who think she's just not worth praying over and that that she should not be honored. I'm speaking out against the lack of charity towards her. AND compassion. And to other performers who have died in somewhat similar circumstances.
Read the above posts please.

That's all.
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  #12  
Old Feb 13, '12, 1:19 am
Deus_lo_vult Deus_lo_vult is offline
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Post Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdinaryMelkite View Post
I was speaking of the poople who basically are saying in other boards and generally in the internet-----"Why are you spending all of your time on a crack head who threw her life away? Why don't we cover (like you said) the innocents in Syria or the army people dying overseas?"

The media is covering this CNN particularly in the days before WH's death had made the tragedies in Syria their No. 1 story----they are just also finding time to cover the life of an influential, talented musical genius (some have called her the greatest singer EVER----seriously) now that she has died.

And again------whatever tragedies her life was beset with (and also the BAD and TRAGIC choices she admittedly made) my point was------ALL of us have done this. She just happened to have a bigger talent than us and was in the public eye more. She also influenced (in one way or another and LIKE IT or NOT) Ameircan society----in the influence on artists and in the sheer joy and pleasure that her God-given talent gave to miilions all over the world.

Surely we can acknowledge the good and joy she gave to people, right?

And also use her death as a commentary and cautionary tale on how even the best of us can fall prey to ruin by the SCOURGE that is Drug Addiction?

Even geniuses have demons. Some even say that's how they use their genius for the good.

And YES, we are ALL equal in God's eyes----------but a small minority of us have talents that mark us out from the pack----and those talents mark us out also as "God-touched." Of course we are going to acknowledge those, of course. Come on.

MJ and WH are examples of that. Among many others. Soldiers are to be acknowledged and honored, but very few of them are special and "God-touched," you will admit. Yes, spotlight the light of the media on the Syrian massacres and injustices around the world----but also acknowledge the "special, God-touched" people amongst us.

Finally----as Christians/Catholics, we are all called to charity, compassion, and trust in God's will and purposes. God will know what to do with sister Whitney's soul. HE will decide whether she "threw her life" away on drugs. I am simply following the tents of my Catholic/Christian faith.

Just saying.
I am both an admirer and a critical observer of people like Whitney Houston.

I agree that people like Whitney have God given gifts that distinguish them from the rest of us, and in that vein I'm also aware of Christ's words:

"To whom much is given, much is expected..." (Luke 12:48)

So much more curious is it then, that someone so favored by God with such a wonderful gift should end her life so tragically. It may be hard to understand what I'm getting at, but try and look at it in the light of God's original covenant with the Jews. The Jews had a relationship with God that no other people on earth had. They were honored with the privilege of bearing God's revelation to the rest of the world, but because God had a special affinity for the Jews, he expected more from them than from the Gentiles.

While the Jews were constrained to observe 613 laws, Gentiles were only required to observe the Seven Noahide Commandments:

Quote:
1.Prohibition of Idolatry
2.Prohibition of Murder
3.Prohibition of Theft
4.Prohibition of Sexual immorality
5.Prohibition of Blasphemy
6.Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
7.Establishment of courts of law

(Gen 2:16)

In spite of her wonderful talents as a singer (I'm listening to I Wanna Dance With Somebody right now) I do not agree that people like Whitney Houston are a cut above soldiers because I don't define blessings according to their utility, that is, I don't rank blessings according to their temporal fruits. What I mean by 'temporal fruits', are things produced by a person, with the help of a particular gift from God, to create things that are fleeting and temporary, like pop music, for example.

With all due respect to the deceased, I don't think Whitney's music will soothe the bereavement of her daughter, and not because it isn't beautiful music, but because a human being's worth is immeasurable, it can never be assessed by any mortal instrument or metric. You'd never trade a loving mother for all the music in the world; on the contrary, we would probably give up ever hearing another piece of music ever again if it would bring her back. Whitney was worth more than her gifts as a singer.

Soldiers are also gifted with a level of martial valor that is the envy of all. In fact, soldiers mark a striking contrast to celebrities with more lucrative, 'bankable' talents insofar as they demonstrate how one may use his/her talents selflessly while the more famous among us use their gifts to enrich themselves, cloistered in palatial estates aloof from the consumers of their products whom make their enrichment possible.

By contrast, consider, for example, how poorly compensated even senior military officers are, much less the infantryman dying on the front line, and in spite of austere and scarcely livable conditions a soldier is expected to give nothing less than the very best of himself in a martial operation that may cost him his life. I would argue that many soldiers are the model of Christian fortitude, humility, and charity, merely on account of their little regard for themselves. Like Christ during His Agony in the Garden of Gethsemane, soldiers executing their orders implicitly say "but let Your will be done, not Mine." (Luke 22:42)

Unlike Whitney Houston or Michael Jackson soldiers don't have a talent that you can play on your iPod or buy in a store anytime you need an uplifting boost, but not because it is worth any less but merely because its consequences touch our lives more indirectly.

I think that explains my position. Any further objections?

Last edited by Deus_lo_vult; Feb 13, '12 at 1:36 am.
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  #13  
Old Feb 13, '12, 4:39 am
Bob Crowley Bob Crowley is offline
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

As a rider to the post above, I might add Christ had some rather harsh words to say about the wealthy, but not once did he criticise soldiers or the military, other than to point out that he who lived by the sword would die by the sword. And I'm not even sure He was talking about the military or police when he said that. This is despite the fact the military would eventually put him to death, under orders.

Australian soldiers in the First World War referred to themselves as "six-bob-a-day tourists" ... (a reference to their daily wages of six shillings)" (From Wikipedia). Like their modern counterparts, they weren't exactly overpaid to take a very high risk of being killed or wounded.

One centurion amazed Christ with his faith, but when the rich young man walked away sad, Christ's comment was (Matthew 19:23 NIV) "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

Last edited by Bob Crowley; Feb 13, '12 at 4:57 am.
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Old Feb 13, '12, 6:14 am
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

I was never a fan of Whitney Houston, but I am appalled at some of the callous and cruel things people have been saying on other message boards, some of it within just a couple of hours of the news being reported.

I pray for the repose of her soul and for the comfort of her family and loved ones.
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Old Feb 13, '12, 6:51 am
Richard320 Richard320 is offline
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Default Re: Long rant by a Whitney fan----PLEASE bear with me.

We say "Big Deal" because she was just one person. Here in La-la land, Whitney took up 20 minutes of a 30 minute newscast. I was not a fan of hers, I wouldn't have recognized her in a store, why must I be subject to her nonstop canonization by media?

Do you know that there are riots in Greece, that 1 in 5 Civil Servants there will be fired? That the Euro may collapse, sparking worldwide financial chaos?

How touchy is the situation with Iran, and the Straights of Hormuz? Will we see gasoline rationing, even at $10/gallon in the US? Or yet another war in the Mideast?

The HHS mandate, the Bishops speaking out, other religions siding with us - back page news.

This stuff will affect our lives a lot more than the passing of a recording artist!
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