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  #31  
Old Feb 14, '12, 5:06 pm
Publisher Publisher is offline
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Default Re: Love of G-d and/or Fear of Hell or Death (Oblivion)?

I don't know that I can answer it....God....the Ineffable...the Eternal Mystery.....the Wholly Other is beyond comprehension.....I can barely concieve of flying in a space ship to Mars let alone traveling an eternity to a Realm of Light Above Limitless Light.

Perhaps that is where faith comes in.....I live a life of faith because I believe "he does all things well" and the Creator and Sustainer of our universe has a concept of justice and mercy greater than anything I can conceive. "The rain falls on the good and the bad alike"....death comes to us all.....none of us get's out of this alive. So I choose to live a life in faith that offers meaning to this life.....if I live only in the memory of those I leave behind....THAT is worth something I think.

For me God's love and mercy is found in the revelation of Jesus of Nazareth.....he lived a life of astounding love and mercy....he loved "extravagantly" and "completely".....he loved even in the face of death and forgave those who visited astounding suffering upon him....he forgave them and loved them from the cross.....for me....the life of Jesus of Nazareth answers those questions I have about God....well...perhaps not "answer"....but definitely in Jesus of Nazareth I see God among us.....and neither do I understand that....but I choose to live my life in faith....faith that the One who knows me best...loves me most and I can trust in His Justice and Mercy....and if oblivion is our lot...I'll never know it anyways as I will be "oblivious" to my state.....not a great answer I know....but it's all I have....it is a matter of faith...not knowing.....
  #32  
Old Feb 15, '12, 3:25 pm
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Marie_Gregg Marie_Gregg is offline
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Default Re: Love of G-d and/or Fear of Hell or Death (Oblivion)?

Haven't read all the replies, so my apologies if this sentiment has already been shared:

I think that love for God is intimately entwined with longing for Heaven. I don't love God just because I want to go to Heaven; I love Him because He first loved me and He teaches me to love Him more each day. With that growth in love is a desire to be with Him. Being with Him now and being with Him in Heaven are two different things in my mind. One foreshadows the other.

I long for the day when earth and Heaven are joined in perfect union. I ache for the return of the Lord. I am excited for all things to be renewed and set right. This is because I love Him, not because I feel deserving of some reward.

Is Hell a motivating factor in my belief? Again, I don't think that you can separate love for God from fear of Hell. The idea of eternity apart from Him is utterly terrifying and abhorrent.

This is where I see so much of systematic theology failing. I don't think you can separate beliefs about God from beliefs about anything else.
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  #33  
Old Feb 15, '12, 4:06 pm
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Default Re: Love of G-d and/or Fear of Hell or Death (Oblivion)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie_Gregg View Post
Haven't read all the replies, so my apologies if this sentiment has already been shared:

I think that love for God is intimately entwined with longing for Heaven. I don't love God just because I want to go to Heaven; I love Him because He first loved me and He teaches me to love Him more each day. With that growth in love is a desire to be with Him. Being with Him now and being with Him in Heaven are two different things in my mind. One foreshadows the other.

I long for the day when earth and Heaven are joined in perfect union. I ache for the return of the Lord. I am excited for all things to be renewed and set right. This is because I love Him, not because I feel deserving of some reward.

Is Hell a motivating factor in my belief? Again, I don't think that you can separate love for God from fear of Hell. The idea of eternity apart from Him is utterly terrifying and abhorrent.

This is where I see so much of systematic theology failing. I don't think you can separate beliefs about God from beliefs about anything else.
I was raised in the Nazarene church.....haven't been to a Nazarene church for almost 40 years.
  #34  
Old Feb 15, '12, 4:14 pm
AbideWithMe AbideWithMe is offline
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Default Re: Love of G-d and/or Fear of Hell or Death (Oblivion)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie_Gregg View Post
Haven't read all the replies, so my apologies if this sentiment has already been shared:

I think that love for God is intimately entwined with longing for Heaven. I don't love God just because I want to go to Heaven; I love Him because He first loved me and He teaches me to love Him more each day. With that growth in love is a desire to be with Him. Being with Him now and being with Him in Heaven are two different things in my mind. One foreshadows the other.

I long for the day when earth and Heaven are joined in perfect union. I ache for the return of the Lord. I am excited for all things to be renewed and set right. This is because I love Him, not because I feel deserving of some reward.

Is Hell a motivating factor in my belief? Again, I don't think that you can separate love for God from fear of Hell. The idea of eternity apart from Him is utterly terrifying and abhorrent.

This is where I see so much of systematic theology failing. I don't think you can separate beliefs about God from beliefs about anything else.
Very well said, Marie!
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  #35  
Old Feb 15, '12, 4:36 pm
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Marie_Gregg Marie_Gregg is offline
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Default Re: Love of G-d and/or Fear of Hell or Death (Oblivion)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Publisher View Post
I was raised in the Nazarene church.....haven't been to a Nazarene church for almost 40 years.
And I went to a Friends church from age 11-18.
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  #36  
Old Feb 15, '12, 4:41 pm
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Default Re: Love of G-d and/or Fear of Hell or Death (Oblivion)?

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Originally Posted by Marie_Gregg View Post
And I went to a Friends church from age 11-18.
LOL....I was "convinced" a Friend at 19....
  #37  
Old Feb 15, '12, 4:45 pm
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Marie_Gregg Marie_Gregg is offline
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Default Re: Love of G-d and/or Fear of Hell or Death (Oblivion)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Publisher View Post
LOL....I was "convinced" a Friend at 19....
Well, dang, I guess I just missed the boat.

I loved my time at the Friends church. (Side note: it was an Evangelical Friends congregation; I know that there are many stripes within the Friends). Much of what I hold to be true today comes from that very foundational time in my life. One thing I sorely miss is the times of silence during corporate worship. There was something...both settling and electrifying about those times.

But now we're off topic...
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"Every one, though born of God in an instant, yet undoubtedly grows by slow degrees. - John Wesley

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  #38  
Old Feb 16, '12, 4:38 pm
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SteveVH SteveVH is offline
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Default Re: Love of G-d and/or Fear of Hell or Death (Oblivion)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie_Gregg View Post
Haven't read all the replies, so my apologies if this sentiment has already been shared:

I think that love for God is intimately entwined with longing for Heaven. I don't love God just because I want to go to Heaven; I love Him because He first loved me and He teaches me to love Him more each day. With that growth in love is a desire to be with Him. Being with Him now and being with Him in Heaven are two different things in my mind. One foreshadows the other.

I long for the day when earth and Heaven are joined in perfect union. I ache for the return of the Lord. I am excited for all things to be renewed and set right. This is because I love Him, not because I feel deserving of some reward.

Is Hell a motivating factor in my belief? Again, I don't think that you can separate love for God from fear of Hell. The idea of eternity apart from Him is utterly terrifying and abhorrent.

This is where I see so much of systematic theology failing. I don't think you can separate beliefs about God from beliefs about anything else.
I couldn't agree more.
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  #39  
Old Feb 16, '12, 6:59 pm
JimmytheButcher JimmytheButcher is offline
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Default Re: Love of G-d and/or Fear of Hell or Death (Oblivion)?

Holy fear is a loving fear. Of course one must have an initial fear of loss, but that grows into a higher form when virtue is acquired.

You wanted different viewpoints, and so, I offer this playlist.

http://www.youtube.com/user/francisc...rch?query=fear


Being Jewish shouldn't be all that difficult really. You have Moses and the Prophets. That is a really wonderful thing! I will emphathise. I almost always have the same questions and then I receive re-assurance in the form of a woman named Mariam.

He created woman so that Man would not be alone, knowing that soon Man would be outside the garden.

It is good to sit and look at the Eucharist. He is there, even if you do not believe Him to be there transubstantially or consubstantially, as Protestants often believe, but He is there. At the very least He is there at least as much as He is in the parking lot. I, of course, believe that He is in the Loaves of Proposition which is why the priest turns and says Behold! What I am saying is that rest assured that when you put yourself out there for Him, He condescends to you. Realise that He is omnipotent and not just a guy in the sky who really benevolent but ultimately weak. That is a particular temptation I have seen too many folks fall to.

http://youtu.be/lkq-Fd9TU8k?hd=1

This homily is a good and humorous take on it. http://youtu.be/rNeyN5-4QCM?hd=1
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