Poll on Catholic Use and Beliefs Regarding Contraception

[Julia Mae]

Originally Posted by Semper Zelare

Let's debunk the 98% of Catholic women use contraception right here with a poll. I would say Catholic Answers has to be at least slightly indicative of the Catholic population at large.

Really? I don't think so at all. But we don't need a poll to debunk what you said we just need to understand that the figure of 98% includes NFP. The poll was some form of contraception, I believe.

Unless there's another poll I don't know about. Besides, maybe they didn't have a large enough or a representative sample of Catholic women, either.

[Semper Zelare]

Originally Posted by Julia Mae

Really? I don't think so at all. But we don't need a poll to debunk what you said we just need to understand that the figure of 98% includes NFP. The poll was some form of contraception, I believe.

Unless there's another poll I don't know about. Besides, maybe they didn't have a large enough or a representative sample of Catholic women, either.

Well, certainly counting NFP might've been part of it. And, certainly counting only sexually active Women is part of it. And, part of it has to be that it's about women only. This comes completely from their camp... where EVERY woman is on the pill.

But, what we have learned from this poll is significant. That, outside of NFP, there might be a lot of Catholic women.... and all women as well, who at one time used contraception (pills or whatever), but full contraception as medication in whatever form. And they no longer use contraception anymore, and are against it.

IE: The 1960's and 70's. People partied, people did a lot of things. People came back to the Faith a little later.

So far 10 out of 28 responses fall into this category. At least 6 of those women. Nearly a third of the responses fall into that.

Yet... all of these women were counted among those who used contraception actively... and because they use it they must support it. Well... looks like that isn't the case at all.

[cjmclark]

Originally Posted by Julia Mae

Really? I don't think so at all. But we don't need a poll to debunk what you said we just need to understand that the figure of 98% includes NFP. The poll was some form of contraception, I believe.

Unless there's another poll I don't know about. Besides, maybe they didn't have a large enough or a representative sample of Catholic women, either.

It doesn't include NFP. The point of the survey was that only 2% of Catholic women surveyed said they used NFP. The 98% figure did, however, somehow include the 11% of women who said they didn't use any contraception at all.

[Julia Mae]

Originally Posted by cjmclark

It doesn't include NFP. The point of the survey was that only 2% of Catholic women surveyed said they used NFP. The 98% figure did, however, somehow include the 11% of women who said they didn't use any contraception at all.

I see. Tnx. Is there a link to this survey or study?

[Em_in_FL]

CatholicSistas.com is taking a poll on this very issue as well... we're LOOKING for FAITHFUL CATHOLICS to respond...

http://www.catholicsistas.com/2012/0...-fall-in-line/

[Joe 5859]

Originally Posted by Julia Mae

I see. Tnx. Is there a link to this survey or study?

How the White House’s 98% Contraception Figure for Catholics is Wrong

This article by Tom Hoopes is based off the more thorough analysis conducted by Lydia McGrew. Hoopes' article gives the snapshot version, which I find helpful.

[LemonAndLime]

Originally Posted by Em_in_FL

CatholicSistas.com is taking a poll on this very issue as well... we're LOOKING for FAITHFUL CATHOLICS to respond...

http://www.catholicsistas.com/2012/0...-fall-in-line/

What's the point of only asking for 'faithful' Catholics to respond to a contraceptive poll? Surely you're only going to get one guaranteed result?

It's a bit like the government asking for only healthy people to fill in a health survey to find out the health of the total population.

[Em_in_FL]

Originally Posted by LemonAndLime

What's the point of only asking for 'faithful' Catholics to respond to a contraceptive poll? Surely you're only going to get one guaranteed result?

It's a bit like the government asking for only healthy people to fill in a health survey to find out the health of the total population.

Sorry, my bad on wording ... maybe "practicing" is more appropriate as you pointed out in my cross-post.

We're just trying to get some more realistic statistics to counter this "98%" notion in the news media.
What does 98% really mean? Obviously you can use statistics to say anything you want.

[LemonAndLime]

Originally Posted by Em_in_FL

Sorry, my bad on wording ... maybe "practicing" is more appropriate as you pointed out in my cross-post.

We're just trying to get some more realistic statistics to counter this "98%" notion in the news media.
What does 98% really mean? Obviously you can use statistics to say anything you want.

No need to apologise! I agree, the wording could be better. We should have statistics about practicing Catholics, not polls which include non-practicing.

[GaryTaylor]

Seems the pole is affirmative against the use the contraceptives. Probly is also true though that more informed Catholic's who follow the CC teaching also exist on CAF.

At least from hearing the Catholic's Pro-Choice I have on the news it would seem apparent. Wow, is all I have to say about some of that logic. Most resides in our present Democratic party. Lots of rationalization going on their.

Goes like this........

1] Its my body

2] Cost effective

3] Most Catholics use contarceptives anyway

In fact I believe they even somehow concluded 98% I'd say anything goes in this election. Never mind smear campaigns, we're at outright lies now.

Peace

[iloveangels]

Originally Posted by GaryTaylor

Seems the pole is affirmative against the use the contraceptives. Probly is also true though that more informed Catholic's who follow the CC teaching also exist on CAF.

At least from hearing the Catholic's Pro-Choice I have on the news it would seem apparent. Wow, is all I have to say about some of that logic. Most resides in our present Democratic party. Lots of rationalization going on their.

Goes like this........

1] Its my body

2] Cost effective

3] Most Catholics use contarceptives anyway

In fact I believe they even somehow concluded 98% I'd say anything goes in this election. Never mind smear campaigns, we're at outright lies now.

Peace

You need some categories for converts. Some of us were terrible sinners before we became Catholic. We try not to be terrible sinners now.

[anp1215]

Originally Posted by Deus_lo_vult

Are they Catholics according to their own criteria, or according to the Catholic Church, who alone determines who remains in communion? Secondly, a lot of lapsed or ex-Catholics still refer to themselves as Catholic in a cultural sense, eg, they were raised Catholic by their parents, but have not practiced for quite some time.

I plan to start a thread addressing this strange phenomenon. The Catholic Church has a lot of hangers on who don't agree with next to anything the Church teaches, but who can't can't seem to let it go either. It's so strange to me; it would be like me joining the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL) in hopes that I could convert it to a pro-life organization by attending meetings and participating in other activities of the organization.

The plight of lapsed Catholics who have not completely broken with the Church is both a hopeful and dreadful prospect to traditional Catholics like myself.

It is hopeful inasmuch as it speaks to the fact that these lapsed brothers and sisters in Christ have not completely surrendered to worldly temptation. There are many reverts on CAF who now embrace the Church.

It is dreadful in so far as their solution to their inability to choose between the Catholic Church and aspects of secular culture that are anathema to Catholicism is to moderate Catholicism and marry it to aspects of secularism, which cannot be accomplished without infringing on the right of more orthodox Catholics to worship according to our millenia old traditions. In essence, they want drag us all with them, or failing that, fracture the Body of Christ in a schismatic revolt.

They are Catholics according to the Catholic Church.

[Deus_lo_vult]

Originally Posted by anp1215

They are Catholics according to the Catholic Church.

Yes and no.

One's status in the Catholic Church is determined not only by intiation via Sacraments of Baptism and/or Confirmation but also one's fidelity to Catholic teaching. In other words, it isn't enough to have been 'raised' or 'brought up' in the Church, Catholics are also Catholic according to their beliefs and actions, just as pro-lifers have to believe abortion is wrong in order to be pro-lifers.

Stubborn people can insist that being pro-life and pro-abortion are compatible stances, but that doesn't make it true. Impenitent apostates (I use the word 'apostates' only because people who were never Catholic don't necessarily wind up in Hell, indeed, many righteous among them will go to Heaven) or heretics die in complete separation from the Catholic Church, and more importantly, from God Himself.

That complete separation from the Church does not mean that reconciliation with the Church is not possible. For example, a child who runs away from home. That child is completely separated from home, by virtue of him not being present anywhere on the property, but he can still return anytime he wants to. He need only turn around and go back.

The Catholic Church, to my knowledge, does not have to formally excommunicate someone for the separation to be real, but people can also bring that separation on themselves by virtue of their rejection of the Church's authority or a particular teaching that is held to be inviolable, such as the prohibition of contraception among the faithful.

[Semper Zelare]

Originally Posted by Deus_lo_vult

Yes and no.

One's status in the Catholic Church is determined not only by intiation via Sacraments of Baptism and/or Confirmation but also one's fidelity to Catholic teaching. In other words, it isn't enough to have been 'raised' or 'brought up' in the Church, Catholics are also Catholic according to their beliefs and actions, just as pro-lifers have to believe abortion is wrong in order to be pro-lifers.

Stubborn people can insist that being pro-life and pro-abortion are compatible stances, but that doesn't make it true. Impenitent apostates (I use the word 'apostates' only because people who were never Catholic don't necessarily wind up in Hell, indeed, many righteous among them will go to Heaven) or heretics die in complete separation from the Catholic Church, and more importantly, from God Himself.

That complete separation from the Church does not mean that reconciliation with the Church is not possible. For example, a child who runs away from home. That child is completely separated from home, by virtue of him not being present anywhere on the property, but he can still return anytime he wants to. He need only turn around and go back.

The Catholic Church, to my knowledge, does not have to formally excommunicate someone for the separation to be real, but people can also bring that separation on themselves by virtue of their rejection of the Church's authority or a particular teaching that is held to be inviolable, such as the prohibition of contraception among the faithful.

Well, I just want to say briefly, that while most people often think of excommunication as a punishment which is doled out by no less than a Bishop on someone. It is really referring to not being able to receive Communion. Ex-communication. They're not able to receive communion because of their sin.

The only difference in today's society, is that people persist in their sin for very long times, perhaps until the day you die. If you are pro-choice, that alone prevents you from being able to receive Communion. If you confess and repent, you can receive... but most people don't view being pro-choice as a sin. So, if you go on for years and years as a pro-choice person... you are indeed separate from the Church. I mean, if you don't receive the Eucharist for this long (validly at least)... you're certainly outside of the Church for all intents and purposes.

So, in that light 99% of all excommunications happen automatically. IE: You commit mortal sin, you can't receive communion. The Bishop can potentially tell you that you can't, but 99% of the time he doesn't have to worry about it, because you'll probably confess anyways.

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[Deus_lo_vult]

Originally Posted by Semper Zelare

Well, I just want to say briefly, that while most people often think of excommunication as a punishment which is doled out by no less than a Bishop on someone. It is really referring to not being able to receive Communion. Ex-communication. They're not able to receive communion because of their sin.

The only difference in today's society, is that people persist in their sin for very long times, perhaps until the day you die. If you are pro-choice, that alone prevents you from being able to receive Communion. If you confess and repent, you can receive... but most people don't view being pro-choice as a sin. So, if you go on for years and years as a pro-choice person... you are indeed separate from the Church. I mean, if you don't receive the Eucharist for this long (validly at least)... you're certainly outside of the Church for all intents and purposes.

So, in that light 99% of all excommunications happen automatically. IE: You commit mortal sin, you can't receive communion. The Bishop can potentially tell you that you can't, but 99% of the time he doesn't have to worry about it, because you'll probably confess anyways.

Exactly. Excommunication does not have to be a formal punishment administered by the Bishop or the Pope, it can be a de facto status that one 'chooses' for oneself, by being obstinate and refusing repentance and reconciliation.