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  #16  
Old Feb 17, '12, 1:19 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

Like any book, the Bible must have an authentic and authoritative interpreter. As proof, just look at the many thousands of Protestant denominations who have contradictory doctrines derived from personal interpretation of the Bible. For example, the Baptists say that infant Baptism is not valid. The Lutherans and Anglicans, though, say it is. They all use the same Bible, and claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit in their interpretation, but hold contrary doctrines about the same thing. The truth cannot contradict itself.

When Jesus walked the earth, He taught orally. He never sat down and wrote a book, and as far as we know, He never told anyone else to do the same. The Bible itself says that not all that Jesus did or taught is in the Bible (see John 21:25). Yet, Jesus commanded the Apostles to teach "all" that He had taught them. (see Matt. 28:20) So, if they had to teach "all," but "all" wasn't in the Bible, where was the rest? In Oral Tradition (a.k.a., Sacred Tradition), which is the oral teachings of Christ, passed on to the Apostles and their successors, the bishops for almost 2000 years now. St. Paul talks about oral tradition in 2 Thes 2:15. Plus, the Bible wasn't assembled till the fourth century, and the vast majority of earth's population was illiterate for the first 19 centuries of Christianity. So, a Bible-reading Church wouldn't have made sense. Also, St. Peter warns against personal interpretation of Scripture. (See 2 Peter 1:20).
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  #17  
Old Feb 17, '12, 1:20 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

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Originally Posted by Traverse View Post
I appreciate all the comments in this thread.

I'd like to add, however, that this thread is NOT about the validity of sola scriptura. It's about the reliability of the bible as the word of God.
On its face, it appears to have numerous errors. It must be interpreted so that what appear to be errors may be seen as inerrancy. Yet, it cannot be separated from a doctrine that places the individual ego as interpreter of God's word. And yes, this is uncomfortable ground for those outside the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
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Old Feb 17, '12, 1:21 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

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Originally Posted by Luvtosew View Post
I believe it is the Word of God.
Don't be so controversial!
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Old Feb 17, '12, 1:22 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

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Originally Posted by Marie_Gregg View Post
Well, you know, us pesky Protestants....
With 66 books, you should be Lutheran, right? That is where the number came from.
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Old Feb 17, '12, 1:29 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

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Don't be so controversial!
Ok, it is the true Word of God and I believe it. Better.
  #21  
Old Feb 17, '12, 1:50 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

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With 66 books, you should be Lutheran, right? That is where the number came from.
Well, my theological tradition stems from Anglicanism. How many books of the Bible do the Anglicans have? I don't know.

Side note: I don't have a problem with the Intertestimental, Deuterocanonical, Apocyryphal, Whatever-You-Want-To-Call-Them books. I don't even mind if they're included in a separate section of the Bible. I just don't think that they carry the same authority as the 66 books all Christians recognize, and that particular debate was going on long before Luther was ever around. (Additional side note: Luther bothers me).
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Old Feb 17, '12, 2:27 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

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Originally Posted by Marie_Gregg View Post
Well, my theological tradition stems from Anglicanism. How many books of the Bible do the Anglicans have? I don't know.

Side note: I don't have a problem with the Intertestimental, Deuterocanonical, Apocyryphal, Whatever-You-Want-To-Call-Them books. I don't even mind if they're included in a separate section of the Bible. I just don't think that they carry the same authority as the 66 books all Christians recognize, and that particular debate was going on long before Luther was ever around. (Additional side note: Luther bothers me).
Granted. But, why do Christians recognize even those 66 books, and not the many others that existed? Who, or what, decided way back when?
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  #23  
Old Feb 17, '12, 2:35 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie_Gregg View Post
Well, my theological tradition stems from Anglicanism. How many books of the Bible do the Anglicans have? I don't know.

Side note: I don't have a problem with the Intertestimental, Deuterocanonical, Apocyryphal, Whatever-You-Want-To-Call-Them books. I don't even mind if they're included in a separate section of the Bible. I just don't think that they carry the same authority as the 66 books all Christians recognize, and that particular debate was going on long before Luther was ever around. (Additional side note: Luther bothers me).
You don't think they carry the same authority...based on what? Who determined those 66 did?
  #24  
Old Feb 17, '12, 2:36 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

The Catholic Church does teach that the Bible is inerrant. You can read what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about the Bible starting here:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a3.htm
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Old Feb 17, '12, 2:37 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

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Granted. But, why do Christians recognize even those 66 books, and not the many others that existed? Who, or what, decided way back when?
Ah, yes, who decided what should be in the Bible?

Well, as far as I know, the Old Testament was pretty well codified by Jewish councils and we Christians adopted it (with, of course, the exception of the debated texts). Then the councils of the Early Church (and this is where my Protestant friends get upset with me) took a lot of years to pinpoint exactly what was and what was not of God, under the guidance of the Spirit. I have no problem with this. There were so many false "gospels" and other books floating around that someone had to figure out what was orthodox and what wasn't. Did the Church "decide" what would be in the Bible, or did they recognize what was already there? I don't pretend to exactly understand all the complexities of that process.

The thing I love most about the Bible is how I learn to know the voice of God. The more you read, the more you can recognize and run away from lies.
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Old Feb 17, '12, 2:40 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

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You don't think they carry the same authority...based on what? Who determined those 66 did?
I answered this to some extent (I think) in my post to po18guy.

The thing about the Apocrypha/Deutercanonical books is that they've long been debated. So, I take the view of the Anglican Articles of Religion, which states:

"The Church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners, but yet doth not apply them to establish any doctrine."

Are their doctrines established from these books? I honestly don't know, and that's probably a topic for another thread.
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  #27  
Old Feb 17, '12, 2:42 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

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Originally Posted by po18guy View Post
With 66 books, you should be Lutheran, right? That is where the number came from.
Not exactly, my friend. Luther's translation had 74 books, and the Lutheran Confessions never make a statement regarding which books are canon, and which are not. Lutherans practice a rather conservative approach, looking at scripture regarding whether or not, in the history of the Church, which books were in dispute, and which books were not.
There are some Lutherans who continue to use the duetero-canon liturgically.
Jon
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  #28  
Old Feb 17, '12, 2:43 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

The Bible is inerrant insofar as it is the inspired word of God. Interpretation, however, is not inerrant. Inspired writing requires, as its compliment, an authoritative interpreter or its inspired nature is useless.
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  #29  
Old Feb 17, '12, 2:44 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

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Originally Posted by Marie_Gregg View Post
I answered this to some extent (I think) in my post to po18guy.

The thing about the Apocrypha/Deutercanonical books is that they've long been debated. So, I take the view of the Anglican Articles of Religion, which states:

"The Church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners, but yet doth not apply them to establish any doctrine."

Are their doctrines established from these books? I honestly don't know, and that's probably a topic for another thread.

But the whole "debatable argument over time" is really not that great of an argument. And why? Because the church is the one who determined what books should be make-up the canon. Case in point,the doctrine of the Trinity was long debated after made official in 325 A.D.,but the church did not waiver or bend for dissenters. Should we consider the doctrine of the Trinity open for debate still,since it was long debated?
  #30  
Old Feb 17, '12, 2:47 pm
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Default Re: Is the bible inerrant?

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Originally Posted by Nicea325 View Post
But the whole "debatable argument over time" is really not that great of an argument. And why? Because the church is the one who determined what books should be make-up the canon. Case in point,the doctrine of the Trinity was long debated after made official in 325 A.D.,but the church did not waiver or bend for dissenters. Should we consider the doctrine of the Trinity open for debate still,since it was long debated?
Ugh. I certainly wouldn't want to debate the doctrine of the Trinity.

I started a new thread for this question of the canon.
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