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  #16  
Old Feb 17, '12, 10:26 pm
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FabiusMaximus FabiusMaximus is offline
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

This is really making a mountain out of a molehill.
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  #17  
Old Feb 18, '12, 6:32 am
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

I remember when I first heard about this. When I asked a Mormon I know, she denied they practice it.
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  #18  
Old Feb 18, '12, 6:45 am
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agnes therese agnes therese is online now
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

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Originally Posted by Janderich View Post
I have been trying to understand the animosity surrounding this issue but have a hard time seeing why anyone from another religion would consider it anything more than a whole lot of LDS people wasting a whole lot of time.
Exactly. If they "baptize" me after my death, what effect will it have? None at all.
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  #19  
Old Feb 18, '12, 6:56 am
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

It is insulting to the memory of people who died for another faith to try and attach them to Mormonism in their death. That is why people don't appreciate this.

Regarding Wojtyla, when I searched for names in the IDI on the other thread, he didn't seem to be there, but his parents are. I am wondering if, sensitive to criticism, they aren't starting to back-pedal on this and maybe clean up the more egregious examples?
  #20  
Old Feb 18, '12, 8:16 am
RebeccaJ RebeccaJ is offline
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

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Originally Posted by Zundrah View Post
I remember when I first heard about this. When I asked a Mormon I know, she denied they practice it.
Oh my heck, it's Zundrah! Welcome back.
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  #21  
Old Feb 18, '12, 8:26 am
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KathleenGee KathleenGee is offline
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

Jhow...

As I have said, the Mormon Church watches us with a thousand eyes....and they are seeing our reaction to finding out John Paul II has been baptized 6 times, and made a member of one temple in San Diego.

Yes, it is insulting and it violates the free choice and a life of total service to God.

It is said that before he became pope, John Paul II would sleep on the floor. He lived a most penitential life for the Lord...and then to baptize him....when he was the pope who said Mormon baptism is not valid....shows a real disrespect and defiance on the part of that religion.

Immediately prior to the Vatican decision, there was a Mormon article stating how they had found this 'treasure trove of priest and religious records going back a thousand years...and they most likely got them baptized any way.

I don't think you will see any action on the part of the Mormon Church except an apology, and putting the baptism of John Paul II in another record location. Nothing changed for the Jews.

I also read about that time, a young Mormon woman was now leaving that belief system just because of this very practice of baptism of the dead.

Look at Mormon answers to questions here...or by observations by those who attempted to discuss faith issues with Mormons....it is a room of mirrors, nothing really set...a constant state of flux of ideas.
  #22  
Old Feb 18, '12, 8:37 am
Jim Dandy Jim Dandy is offline
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

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Originally Posted by Pepband Mom View Post
John Paul II was asked if LDS baptisms were valid. His reply "negative". To be a Christian, belief in the Trinity & that Jesus is God would be mandatory.
They believe that Jesus is God -- but not consubstantial with the Father. They believe Jesus was a spirit child of Heavenly Father, the "earth God," and one of his many goddess wives, who was born of the Virgin Mary as mortal flesh for the purpose of saving the people of earth. His literal brother is Satan, who was jealous because Jesus was chosen for the job. Sibling rivalry. They once taught that Heavenly Father "God" returned to earth (he was once a man like us) and had sexual intercourse with Mary, which resulted in the birth of Jesus, but they now deny it. The Mormon "trinity" consists of three distinct, separate "Gods" -- Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. They teach this with a straight face, while claiming to be monotheists.

This practice of "baptisim of the dead" is infuriating to me. They announce among themselves, "Rejoice, John Paul II is now a Mormon!" Absurd. They did the same thing to my favorite saint -- St. Damien of Molokai -- and provided him with a posthumous wife. They're very strong in Hawaii.

I understand why this is an affront to the Jews. I personally don't care what Mormons do or believe, except that they call themselves Christian, claim that theirs is the true "Church of Jesus Christ," and that our Church is of the devil, destroyed important parts of the Scriptures, killed many saints, and became 'apostate' at the death of John the Evangelist. Oy veh!
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  #23  
Old Feb 18, '12, 9:15 am
RebeccaJ RebeccaJ is offline
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

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Originally Posted by Jim Dandy View Post
They believe that Jesus is a God --
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  #24  
Old Feb 18, '12, 10:10 am
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KathleenGee KathleenGee is offline
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

The other Mormons who come on here deny the Mormon religion taught that Catholics are evil, etc.

Yes. No. No...Yes....it is like that from many members of Mormonism.

Doesn't it say in Scripture to say yes when you mean yes, and say no when you mean no, and all else is evil?
  #25  
Old Feb 18, '12, 10:54 am
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Zundrah Zundrah is offline
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Cool Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

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Originally Posted by RebeccaJ View Post
Oh my heck, it's Zundrah! Welcome back.
Be afraid, be very afraid.
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  #26  
Old Feb 18, '12, 1:05 pm
xixxvmcm85 xixxvmcm85 is offline
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

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Originally Posted by Holly3278 View Post
I personally think that the Mormons should be required to get permission from family members before they go and posthumously baptize some dead person.
That's precisely what the LDS Church says their policy is, and gives us the context of this apology.

Quote:
A statement issued Tuesday by the church, whose formal name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, said the actions violated Mormon policy.
Although the Mormons believe in so-called proxy baptism for deceased relatives, "the policy of the church is that members can request these baptisms only for their own ancestors."
I personally think everyone is getting their knickers in a knot over inefficacious silly Mormon rituals.

I don't care if the Mormons posthumously baptize me anymore than I would care if my name was mentioned in any other religious service which is not Catholic. It objectively means absolutely nothing, and matters only to the individual of that religion performing the ritual.
  #27  
Old Feb 18, '12, 1:09 pm
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

I would like to see if anyone who is related to me is now a baptized Mormon...my brother got help form Ancestry.com at one point....



After some time of getting no where about the background of our grandfather, there was one source who really did help. It was the Catholic Church he received his adult baptism and marriage in. We then understood why he was quiet about them. He was ashamed. He was so meek and kind. Anyway, we had a Mass for him and peace for his soul. I felt such holiness in my family at that time and we could really empathize with his hidden sorrows.
  #28  
Old Feb 18, '12, 1:16 pm
xixxvmcm85 xixxvmcm85 is offline
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

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Originally Posted by KathleenGee View Post
I would like to see if anyone who is related to me is now a baptized Mormon...my brother got help form Ancestry.com at one point....
You might want to try one of the LDS Family History Centers. Some of the larger Stakes have them, otherwise you'll find them at the temples. They may have changed their policy in the last 7 years, but when I was a member of the church they would help out nonmembers with their family history and you'd see any posthumous ordinance data they have on the individual.

And contrary to popular misconception, the LDS do not retroactively make anyone a Mormon on paper. Sacramental records are denoted on an individual's files and any posthumous LDS ordinance work is marked in a completely separate category with the dates of execution. It's quite simple to note that an individual was born, say, in 1880, baptized a Catholic in 1881, died in 1950, and then posthumously baptized in an LDS temple in 1960. In many cases, also, the LDS record will note where the primary source records came from as well. This is how I was able to learn that most of my family was Lutheran before converting to Mormonism in the 1840s.
  #29  
Old Feb 18, '12, 1:32 pm
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KathleenGee KathleenGee is offline
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

I see.

I am a cradle Catholic. My father was in the seminary for a few years, and I grew up in a simple home...but faith-filled. We saw people consecrated to God as set aside, a very holy people, totally dedicated to Him.

So, yes, we are miffed when we hear of Mormonism not acknowledging their vocation and doing rituals on their truthful identities. Not good. We know the rituals in themselves are not valid to us, but the practice implies as well that Mormonism is indeed very different.

God bless you in your new walk in the Catholic Church...and thanks for the information.
  #30  
Old Feb 18, '12, 2:04 pm
Hokomai Hokomai is offline
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Default Re: Mormons Anger Jews by Baptism of the Dead, Apologize

The Mormons do no more that others do when they pray for people of different beliefs. Their belief is real, their intentions are good. The consequence of this belief is the vast Mormon contribution to family history for which I am grateful. I recently had a big medical procedure, and was told by Catholics they were praying for me - and also a Hindu. An atheist friend said she was 'projecting good thought'. None of these things coincided with anything I think, but I respected their rights to their own beliefs, and had no expectation that they would express concern for me except according to their own beliefs. I appreciated their thoughts.
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