Is it wrong to want to be successful? To be powerful? To be ambitious? To be self made?

Lilsheep88 · #1 Feb 18, '12, 8:26 pm

answers please..

And if so.. Why do I feel guilty whenever I work hard to earn my own success.
Everytime I study hard, or work hard, or try to preserve money, or go in a state of pure mental focus ("beast-mode".. as I call it) Or work aggresively towards a successful future, I feel bad because I feel selfish..

I understand that everyone has their own vocation, but seriously.. In this capitalist society, the main motivation is money, wealth and prosperity. I am not gonna lie, that has always been my main motivation to succeed.. But how can one reconcile this with Catholicism? I am begginign to feel that faith is making me weak, making me submissive and making me less and less driven to do anything in life. but instead sit around and pray and be passive about everything else and it makes me feel like a helpess animal.. helpless about my own future, helpless about how I can impact the world and its as if that I cannot dictate my own terms on my own life..

I am not saying that God doesnt play a role because he certainly plays a very big one.. he is the one that provides the oppurtunities and it is up to the individual to grab it, and grab it aggresively if they can.

I have always grown up to believe that life is what you make of it, and that life is like an empty slate and YOU have to paint it..

I am starting to get confused.. The more "faithful" I have become, the less I ambitious I have been.. As if I had lost my drive to do anything good for myself. I have lost almsot all of my competetive drive.. this is the reason why I sometimes want to walk out on the faith.. because I feel that it is putting a limit on my own personal success as far as being self made is concerned.

I am not the type of guy to naturally sit around and wait for oppurtunities (or miracles) to fall out from the sky. I have always beleived that OPPURTUNITY must be created and seized..

I have always brought myself up in this philosophy that I must be proactive to survive in the world and I must do my best to paint own future with my own two hands.. ( but I am not also saying that God doesnt play a role because he certainly does).

And I am not gonna lie, I do want to be rich a couple of years from now (Im in my early 20s) which is the exact reason why I am killing myself with all this schooling in university. a comfortable life, brought about by money, has and always will be the prime motivation of success in any capitalist society.. but how do you really balance it?

Like who doesnt want a good life? Honestly.. and quite frankly money does play a key role in life's happiness.

Help me.. I am really confused. My journey back with the faith has caused me a complete identity crisis.

Lilsheep88 · #2 Feb 18, '12, 8:49 pm

I am sorry I am not trying to sound rude or aggressive, just a basic inquiry here really from someone who is still growing up through the capitalist 21st century. I am not trying to be boastful or trying to "challenge" God in anyway..

PeterGStanley · #3 Feb 18, '12, 8:58 pm

Rich people are as unhappy as poor people - sometimes even more because they have everything and still feel unfulfilled - we all have a hole in our hearts that can't be filled with material things - material things will not make you happy - they will make you feel good for a while but the emptiness just comes back - the only thing that can fill it is God.What will make you happy - a big house with lots of stuff or knowing a life dedicated to God. But what do I know I 'm not a material person - my happiness depends on my relationship with people and my Faith.

Lilsheep88 · #4 Feb 18, '12, 9:05 pm

Yes.. the classical arguement. I have heard this millions of times. I am not disagreeing with you at all. Money doesnt buy happiness but it does make life easier..

For example.. money buys peace of mind from bills and debt
money can even help the poor of used wisely
money buys homes and heating
money can used to prevent deaths (medical bills)

if we were all handed a check of 1,000 dollars a week.. life would be so much easier. but its not, and the pursuit of money makes life that much more miserable.

sure it doesnt buy complete happiness, but money does help in making life easier does it not?

and all humans strive for comfort and peace of mind.. that is a basic human need

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterGStanley

Rich people are as unhappy as poor people - sometimes even more because they have everything and still feel unfulfilled - we all have a hole in our hearts that can't be filled with material things - material things will not make you happy - they will make you feel good for a while but the emptiness just comes back - the only thing that can fill it is God.What will make you happy - a big house with lots of stuff or knowing a life dedicated to God. But what do I know I 'm not a material person - my happiness depends on my relationship with people and my Faith.

PeterGStanley · #5 Feb 18, '12, 9:44 pm

I live comfortably don't get me wrong - I have a good job in the aerospace industry but I found I was not happy - I could make great money but now I just put in my 40hrs. The trick to happiness for me was to get my mind off myself and on other. I volunteer instead of working now and for those hours all my problem and everything about me disappears and its all about them and I'm happy in those moments.And now my work is meaningless to me its just a job I have to go to to pay the bill - my passion is now my volunteer work - and of course my Faith and Church have become central in my life.Things have changed big time for me - some days I find myself spending 3-4 hours praying.I'm about to purchase the 4 volume set of The Liturgy of the Hours - which I've been doing everyday online for the last while.Its praying 6 times a day and I do a constant 9 day novena of the Chaplet of Mercy and of course the rosary everyday and more and it still doesn't seem like enough for me.But thats for me right now - I don't speak for anyone else - have to see where it leads me. It has to do with my volunteer work that can't be done with out praying.

Just got to find what makes you happy and then do it.

Julia Mae · #6 Feb 18, '12, 9:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilsheep88

I am starting to get confused.. The more "faithful" I have become, the less I ambitious I have been.. As if I had lost my drive to do anything good for myself.

Maybe you have just begun to learn what "doing good for yourself" really is. It ain't acquiring wealth, I can tell you that.

Quote:

I have lost almsot all of my competetive drive.. this is the reason why I sometimes want to walk out on the faith.. because I feel that it is putting a limit on my own personal success as far as being self made is concerned.

The Scripture is: you cannot serve God and a mammon. Mammon is the pagan god of STUFF. Mostly money. So, you are being pulled away from God by... hmmmmm.. could it be the Liar? The one who hates your growing Faith and would do anything to stop your soul from progressing one inch closer to God?

Quote:

I am not the type of guy to naturally sit around and wait for oppurtunities (or miracles) to fall out from the sky. I have always beleived that OPPURTUNITY must be created and seized..

But the "type of guy" you were (are) is the one who needed more, who needed to find the Truth, the more, the REAL, the actual eternal, yes, you can take it with you, life in the Spirit.

Quote:

Like who doesnt want a good life? Honestly.. and quite frankly money does play a key role in life's happiness.

Not really. I mean, sorry to pull age rank, but you're a kid compared to me and I promise you that the last thing to make you happy in this world will be money.

Look. Maybe you'll be here 70+ yrs. And maybe that hidden aneurysm in your abdominal aorta will give way in a couple hours. Point is, the longest time you spend here isn't even an eyeblink compared to ETERNITY.

Go read the Gospels. All of them. Start at Mark and just read right through. Listen to Jesus. No one wants your total joy forever more than Jesus. He will tell you how to get that.

Quote:

Help me.. I am really confused. My journey back with the faith has caused me a complete identity crisis.

Hallelujah! Nothing better than a complete identity crisis! It means the Holy Spirit is working very hard in your life, you are being hugely blessed.

There is nothing more corrupting than power and money. No thought more twisted than "it's mine because I earned it." Nothing is yours. Your body isn't yours. It all belongs to God.

Maybe, possibly, there will be some money in your future someday. Maybe God would like you to obtain and possess and use that without great danger to your soul, and so, right now, you need to be reformed. You=clay. God=potter.

And maybe, possibly, God can take that enormous energy and ambition and use you for His purposes. Maybe you'll find a vocation.

I'm thinking Franciscan for you. Perfect fit. Real happiness.

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

Lochias · #7 Feb 18, '12, 10:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julia Mae

Maybe you have just begun to learn what "doing good for yourself" really is. It ain't acquiring wealth, I can tell you that.

The Scripture is: you cannot serve God and a mammon. Mammon is the pagan god of STUFF. Mostly money. So, you are being pulled away from God by... hmmmmm.. could it be the Liar? The one who hates your growing Faith and would do anything to stop your soul from progressing one inch closer to God?

But the "type of guy" you were (are) is the one who needed more, who needed to find the Truth, the more, the REAL, the actual eternal, yes, you can take it with you, life in the Spirit.

Not really. I mean, sorry to pull age rank, but you're a kid compared to me and I promise you that the last thing to make you happy in this world will be money.

Look. Maybe you'll be here 70+ yrs. And maybe that hidden aneurysm in your abdominal aorta will give way in a couple hours. Point is, the longest time you spend here isn't even an eyeblink compared to ETERNITY.

Go read the Gospels. All of them. Start at Mark and just read right through. Listen to Jesus. No one wants your total joy forever more than Jesus. He will tell you how to get that.

Hallelujah! Nothing better than a complete identity crisis! It means the Holy Spirit is working very hard in your life, you are being hugely blessed.

There is nothing more corrupting than power and money. No thought more twisted than "it's mine because I earned it." Nothing is yours. Your body isn't yours. It all belongs to God.

Maybe, possibly, there will be some money in your future someday. Maybe God would like you to obtain and possess and use that without great danger to your soul, and so, right now, you need to be reformed. You=clay. God=potter.

And maybe, possibly, God can take that enormous energy and ambition and use you for His purposes. Maybe you'll find a vocation.

I'm thinking Franciscan for you. Perfect fit. Real happiness.

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

This.

Credo in Deum · #8 Feb 18, '12, 10:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilsheep88

answers please..

And if so.. Why do I feel guilty whenever I work hard to earn my own success.
Everytime I study hard, or work hard, or try to preserve money, or go in a state of pure mental focus ("beast-mode".. as I call it) Or work aggresively towards a successful future, I feel bad because I feel selfish..

I understand that everyone has their own vocation, but seriously.. In this capitalist society, the main motivation is money, wealth and prosperity. I am not gonna lie, that has always been my main motivation to succeed.. But how can one reconcile this with Catholicism? I am begginign to feel that faith is making me weak, making me submissive and making me less and less driven to do anything in life. but instead sit around and pray and be passive about everything else and it makes me feel like a helpess animal.. helpless about my own future, helpless about how I can impact the world and its as if that I cannot dictate my own terms on my own life..

I am not saying that God doesnt play a role because he certainly plays a very big one.. he is the one that provides the oppurtunities and it is up to the individual to grab it, and grab it aggresively if they can.

I have always grown up to believe that life is what you make of it, and that life is like an empty slate and YOU have to paint it..

I am starting to get confused.. The more "faithful" I have become, the less I ambitious I have been.. As if I had lost my drive to do anything good for myself. I have lost almsot all of my competetive drive.. this is the reason why I sometimes want to walk out on the faith.. because I feel that it is putting a limit on my own personal success as far as being self made is concerned.

I am not the type of guy to naturally sit around and wait for oppurtunities (or miracles) to fall out from the sky. I have always beleived that OPPURTUNITY must be created and seized..

I have always brought myself up in this philosophy that I must be proactive to survive in the world and I must do my best to paint own future with my own two hands.. ( but I am not also saying that God doesnt play a role because he certainly does).

And I am not gonna lie, I do want to be rich a couple of years from now (Im in my early 20s) which is the exact reason why I am killing myself with all this schooling in university. a comfortable life, brought about by money, has and always will be the prime motivation of success in any capitalist society.. but how do you really balance it?

Like who doesnt want a good life? Honestly.. and quite frankly money does play a key role in life's happiness.

Help me.. I am really confused. My journey back with the faith has caused me a complete identity crisis.

I think the problem is you're looking at money as an ends and not a means to an end which is your salvation and Heaven. If you're called to be wealthy then you most glorify God with your wealth because after all it is God who gave it to you. There is nothing wrong with being rich but there is nothing easy about it either. With wealth your temptation to sin will be greater so if wealth is what you're asking for then you should probably also pray for the grace to be detached from said wealth so when God calls you to give it to the poor (which is the purpose for why you would be rich) you will do so without hesitation. Right now you should test yourself on how resolved you are on doing the will of God because if you can't give up small things for Him, you will never be able to give up big things; like money. Read the book of Job and ask Job for his intercession since He was a rich man that knew what it meant to love God.

The most import thing though is that God's will be done and so in the end it’s not about what we want but what God wants. You should pray to God to be open to His grace so you can do His will because doing His will is where your true happiness resides. To say bills cause an individual to be unhappy as opposed to those who do not have bills, is to completely miss the fact that anyone doing the will of God regardless of the situation will always be happier than the person not doing the will of God.

Nothing can put a price on a good conscience.

BOSS10L · #9 Feb 18, '12, 10:34 pm

I'm not even religious and I can tell you that you're headed down the wrong path. Those who say that money helps is because they've chosen to embrace the materialistic and consumerism at all costs mindset that corporations have been jamming down America's throat since the '50s.

So many people today have amassed piles and piles of STUFF, yet still live unfulfilling lives. So many Americans have all this STUFF that they've bought with the money they've made working all kinds of crazy hours, but don't have the time to enjoy them. Because they need to keep slaving away to create more money for themselves so that they can acquire more STUFF.

STUFF doesn't make you happy. Living a good life, spending quality time with those you love, doing something worthwhile with your time and becoming a part of something larger than yourself is the path to happiness. If that path happens to be through your faith and religion, all the better for you.

Evaluate what's really important in life. Are you really a better person because you have "xyz?" What's the truth? Do you own the things you have, or do the things you have (and chase) own you?

EmeraldWings · #10 Feb 18, '12, 10:47 pm

it's not a matter of how hard you work, how much you make, what you have, how successful you are...what matters is that you do all that for God, there's something wrong when we do everything for ourselves, for our own good pleasure, our own comfort and ease, and not for the sole purpose of pleasing God and giving all glory to Him.
we were made for God alone and will only be truly happy with Him alone.
God may give you money today and take it all away tomorrow, then where is your happiness? a truly wise man will seek to obtain God above all else, and by doing so will be joyful and at peace no matter what God gives and takes away...because a wise man knows God takes care of all his needs...

and does faith make us weak? not at all, faith is trust in God based on reason rather than visual proof, and it takes a strong person(strong by the grace of God) to place their trust in God and believe what He says and follow all His commands and teachings, even going as far as being nailed to the cross with Him...figuratively speaking, as so many of the saints were,
faith drives us to keep going, to keep enduring...but it's those who give up because of how hard things are that are weak, we don't give up to seek harder things do we?...well, not intentionally anyways, because in all truth, to abandon our faith and seek a path other than Christs path is to make things far harder than they were, because without Christ there to help carry our cross, it will surely crush us.

true strength is in and from God alone, without God you are nothing and without strength, so in all honesty, you are weak, we all are, and it takes a very humble man to admit to that...while on the other hand, it's a very proud man who says "I am strong on my own" and pride is only being a liar with yourself, it is the vice of lies, and lies come from a weakness within ourselves, from a fear of not wanting to face something, or to be more specific, of not wanting to face the truth.

faith is not making you submissive, faith only teaches you that we are all completely and utterly dependent on God for everything, what makes you really submissive is the fact that without God you can do nothing, but that is true no matter what you believe, so it's not something that just happens because of what you do or believe, it's true all the time, and you either accept it or you don't, but that doesn't change a thing.

money may be essential in this life, and quite necessary, but it won't make you happy, as many famous actors and singers and other wealthy people discovered right before committing suicide...when you get everything you want in this life, then it all seems so meaningless...and it's true, having everything you want from the material world is very empty, because while you may love money and things...they don't love you back,
what will really give us purpose in life and meaning and joy, is God...
to love is wonderful...but to be loved is indescribable, especially to be loved by God, whose love is perfect, and which we do not deserve, which we will be asking Him of for all eternity, why He loves us?
love is also a mystery to us, we do not fully understand it by any means, and will not completely 100% understand it for all eternity, because God Himself is love, and His love is infinite...we can somewhat understand love now, by comparing it with the feelings it brings, or with what it inspires us to do...but in heaven we will see love and experience it and express it in ways we cannot now imagine...
sorry to ramble on...but do you not see that there is a much greater goal in life? this life is short and very often disappointing...it's not worth spending so much time on...figuratively speaking...because why spend so much time and hard work on something you're just going to have to lose eventually? why not spend as much time as you can earning treasure in heaven?
if you see the true value of anything, you will see that there is no real value in money or worldly success, although those things are useful, but they go away...and what you're deciding between here is not merely faith and money/success, but heaven and hell! it's not easy to get to heaven, we climb up to heaven, which takes strength, but hell is easy to go to, it's a steep road, and we can move very swiftly down it with no effort at all...

we've spoken several times before on similar things...and i am very curious, do you read any books on the lives and writings of the saints? or any catholic literature on the spiritual life at all? and if so, what ones have you read?
i think i've said it before, but i'll say it again, your understanding of the Catholic faith is very poor, if you really knew the teachings of Christ and His church, you would not be saying or wondering these things...you need to learn your faith more extensively, especially in matters of virtue and the meaning of life(to know, love, and serve God in this life, so that we may be happy with Him in the next) i'm not saying this to be mean(and i apologize if i come off that way) but i just want to encourage you to seek out a better Catholic education, so that you're not so burdened with these confusions and misunderstandings of the faith.

EmeraldWings · #11 Feb 18, '12, 10:47 pm

perhaps this will help you, just read this small collection of quotes, and meditate on them for awhile, ask yourself why these saints say these things, and what they mean exactly -

'Few souls understand what God would accomplish in them if they were to abandon themselves unreservedly to Him and if they were to allow His grace to mold them accordingly.' St. Ignatius of Loyola

'To conquer himself is the greatest victory that man can gain.' - St. Ignatius of Loyola

'Wealth, unless it be devoted to good works, will become to its possessor only a source of endless torment in hell.' - St. Paul of the Cross

'When we hear people talk of riches, honors and amusements of the world, let us remember that all things have an end, and let us then say: "My God, I wish for You alone and nothing more."'
St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

"The rich man is not one who is in possession of much, but one who gives much." Saint John Chrysostom

"Nothing seems tiresome or painful when you are working for a Master who pays well; who rewards even a cup of cold water given for love of Him." St. Dominic Savio

"Remember when you leave this earth, you can take with you nothing that you have received ~ only what you have given: A heart enriched by honest service, love, sacrifice and courage." ~ St. Francis of Assisi

'It is attachment to creatures and to self-satisfaction that weakens the blessings of love in your heart. You must die to all that, if you wish the pure love of God to reign therein.' - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

"Who except God can give you peace? Has the world ever been able to satisfy the heart?" St. Gerard Majella

'Let us be humble and keep ourselves down: - Obedience! Humility! Detachment!' St. Philip Neri

'We should only make use of life to grow in the love of God.' St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

'What? The cross makes us lose our inward peace? Surely it is the cross that bestows it on our hearts. All our miseries come from our not loving it.' St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars

"You cannot please both God and the world at the same time, They are utterly opposed to each other in their thoughts, their desires, and their actions." St. John Vianney

Lost Wanderer · #12 Feb 18, '12, 11:44 pm

Keep in mind that your success could be the big key that will enable you to live according to what's right. What good is driving yourself to poverty when it doesn't alleviate the poverty of others? What good is not having money when you'll only end up amongst hundreds begging for alms, alms that YOU could have given or better yet, used to make jobs that kill the need to beg in the first place?

Unless you've had signs that God is calling you to live like the Amish (and believe me, contrary to what religious people tell you, that is the opposite of what MOST people are called to and for good reason), you will need to have some measure of success in your life. It could be the only way you can pay for your bills. It's how you'll provide for a family. It's what will send your kids to school. It's your way of helping your economy (unless you want it run by sloth-enabling parasites) and your country.

God did not put you on this earth to be miserable. If He did, He'd actually be for abortion. That's a good way to justify ABC right there. Prove to people that we are born here to be miserable and are supposed to reject any form of comfort and enjoyment. Forget about human rights. Forget about how those rights result from us being made in the image and likeness of God. Let's just all blindly believe that the flesh is evil and we must go forth and live 'spiritually'.

Oh wait, isn't that the Gnostic heresy?

Don't believe the delusions of even the most 'spiritual' people when they tell you that you're on the wrong path. It'll only be the wrong path if it's starting make you into an amoral jerk.

Are you? Is money the reason why? From my own experience, I've failed to see how any amount of assertion and desire for my money on my part would qualify as sin. Why? Obviously because I've never done anything wrong to get my money or achieve my success. What about you? Was there anything? If not, then dump the scruples and keep going for the goal.

**LilyM** · #13 Feb 19, '12, 12:22 am

It is true that money contributes to comfort. It is equally true that comfort and happiness does not increase at all once you go beyond having enough money for some fairly basic requirements.

Once you can pay your bills without too much struggle, and are established enough so that you will not go broke if a medical or other emergency occurs, having more will not add anything good to your life. Not having a second or larger house crammed with more stuff than you could possibly make fair use of, not a more impressive job title or a bigger bank balance or share portfolio.

What WILL increase your happiness is building something useful and lasting and worthwhile, achieving something memorable (for the right reasons) with your life. And money is not a requisite for that - Mother Teresa did it on a zero budget.

Lost Wanderer · #14 Feb 19, '12, 12:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilyM

And money is not a requisite for that - Mother Teresa did it on a zero budget.

As much as I agreed with your post, I think it's a bit too idealistic to use Mother Teresa as an example. She and her organization suffered many difficulties and I distinctly recall criticisms being lobbed against them were quite financial in nature. :\

**LilyM** · #15 Feb 19, '12, 1:55 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost Wanderer

As much as I agreed with your post, I think it's a bit too idealistic to use Mother Teresa as an example. She and her organization suffered many difficulties and I distinctly recall criticisms being lobbed against them were quite financial in nature. :\

'financial in nature'? Meaning people disagreed with where she got money from? Or where she spent it? Or both?

Having money won't save you from those sort of difficulties in any event - the reverse, I should imagine.