What should I do? (a conscience vs church issue) - Page 7

michelleds · #91 Feb 23, '12, 12:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSylvester

Maybe I should have worded a my words better: I did NOT mean simulating the sexual organs nor did I include people utside of marriage. Spooning is when a couple cuddles up and are affectionate with each other in an intimate way. Because a couple touch each other closely doesn't mean they're having sex, it is merely a privelege which they have towards each other.

Sex is love as I said, and when a couple has sex, they are doing it to not only have pleasure, get even more attracted to each other and show each other affection but with this love there is the potential for a child to be conceived and that is of course good because building a family unites family. But I don't see anything wrong with a husband and wife caressing each other, cuddling up in bed to keep each other warm or even having a private dinner between each other with both wearing clothes that please the others eyes. Saint Ignatius said in one of his letters that it isn't wrong because it isn't a perverse act, its just affection. I never meant that touching the sexual organs outside of the marriage act is good or virtuous.

For clarification:

Quote:

Debora123 in her OP said: 2. I don't think it's wrong for husband and wife to sometimes bring each other to climax outside of intercourse. (as long as it doesn't become a substitute for intercourse, I see nothing wrong with it happening on occasion).

Quote:

Then in post #75, MrSylvester said: As for climaxing outside of sex, well, speaking as a budding Priest I honestly don't think its bad. Every happy couple should do what they call spooning or cuddling up or caressing each other now and then.

then you write the post quoted at the top. You seem a little confused about climaxing, spooning, cuddling and sex in these posts. saying that couples should spoon, cuddle, keep each other warm, or have dinner is not the same conversation as whether climaxing outside of intercourse is permissible.

So someone says "I think mutual masturbation to male climax without vaginal intercourse is fine."

You then say, "I don't think that's bad, every happy couple should cuddle."

That's what's called a non sequitur.

Debora123 · #92 Feb 23, '12, 2:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelleds

For clarification:

then you write the post quoted at the top. You seem a little confused about climaxing, spooning, cuddling and sex in these posts. saying that couples should spoon, cuddle, keep each other warm, or have dinner is not the same conversation as whether climaxing outside of intercourse is permissible.

So someone says "I think mutual masturbation to male climax without vaginal intercourse is fine."

You then say, "I don't think that's bad, every happy couple should cuddle."

That's what's called a non sequitur.

It's ok. I think he just isn't familiar with our use of the term "climax" in this context. No harm, no foul.

michelleds · #93 Feb 23, '12, 2:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debora123

It's ok. I think he just isn't familiar with our use of the term "climax" in this context. No harm, no foul.

then hopefully this little side note will goad him to seek out a dictionary or encyclopedia!

PS: I'm glad that you've found peace (at least that's how I read your post above).

Debora123 · #94 Feb 23, '12, 2:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelleds

then hopefully this little side note will goad him to seek out a dictionary or encyclopedia!

PS: I'm glad that you've found peace (at least that's how I read your post above).

GraceDK · #95 Feb 24, '12, 1:43 am

Debora,
I don't know if you are still following this thread, but I just thought I'd give some advice to maybe come to the problem from another angle.

You might ask yourself what you believe about obedience, and study what Scripture says about it. I think in obedience there is alot of peace.
I dont ask you to blindly obey. Obedience always comes together with knowing why you obey something... eg. I will choose to obey the Sunday Mass obligation although I personally think that making it a rule is wrong. But I obey anyway, because I believe so many other things that the Church says, that I accept the whole package and actually believe the Holy Spirit leads the Church.
I've always been radical. I once doubted about the ever virginity of our Lady and on that day I was totally ready to leave the Catholic Church. She either is the true Church or she isnt.. anyways... God spoke to me that day so clearly and directly I've never been bothered by that question again.

The Lord was obedient.. so were the saints, when it was most "irrational" from the point of view of the flesh and humanity.
I guess the ones who never have a chance to be obedient will never go through purifying fire and become gold.

Another thing: The Lord says in Scripture, that we will be judged on every word that comes over our lips. I once stumbled accross that, when I was in a period of fiercely debating with Catholics and becoming louder and louder in some Protestant ideas that might never really leave me..

I do think wisdom and understanding grows more in prayer and silence than in discussions.