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  #1  
Old Feb 21, '12, 1:25 am
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Sam_777 Sam_777 is offline
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Lightbulb Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

The latest 2011 Legatum Prosperity "Personal Freedom" rankings puts Canada in 1st place, US in 12, Saudi Arabia in 92, and Israel in 93.

Actually I'm surprised to see the US in the 12th position, I expected it at least to be in the top 3!

I'm also surprised to see my country before Israel, where we actually have one imposed religion and zero freedom and this latest incident concur with that...........
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  #2  
Old Feb 21, '12, 3:36 am
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Kaninchen Kaninchen is offline
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

You need to read the country pages, Sam: Israel and Saudi Arabia.

It's about how people perceive the situation and would depend on their experience and expectations of personal freedom - an Israeli woman might feel highly repressed by the fact she didn't feel she could drive her open-top car, while wearing a bikini, through areas where there are high proportions of deeply religious Jews. In Saudi Arabia, a woman would feel repressed by not being able to drive at all. Both feel repressed but, objectively . . . .
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  #3  
Old Feb 21, '12, 4:18 am
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

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Originally Posted by Kaninchen View Post
an Israeli woman might feel highly repressed by the fact she didn't feel she could drive her open-top car, while wearing a bikini, through areas where there are high proportions of deeply religious Jews. In Saudi Arabia, a woman would feel repressed by not being able to drive at all. Both feel repressed but, objectively . . . .
So shall we understand that people in general do not feel comfortable with religious laws no matter whom they were........

Doesn't that an indication of why GOD have sent Jesus!, He knew that people cannot adhere the religious laws, so there is no point in keep giving them law after law, just redeem them once and for all, and just give them some general instructions to follow........
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Old Feb 21, '12, 4:27 am
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

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Originally Posted by Sam_777 View Post
So shall we understand that people in general do not feel comfortable with religious laws no matter whom they were........

Doesn't that an indication of why GOD have sent Jesus!, He knew that people cannot adhere the religious laws, so there is no point in keep giving them law after law, just redeem them once and for all, and just give them some general instructions to follow........
All those ayats in the Qu'ran about women driving cars led you to Jesus then?
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  #5  
Old Feb 21, '12, 4:48 am
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

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Originally Posted by Kaninchen View Post
All those ayats in the Qu'ran about women driving cars led you to Jesus then?
I personally have no problem with GOD's law whether that from the OT, NT, or even Islam............

What led me to Jesus is His love and wisdom, in my entire life I never seen verses such as those written in the Bible (OT+NT), all the Arabs with all their beautiful rhymed prose books and all what is written in Quran cannot match even 10% of what is written in the Bible..........
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  #6  
Old Feb 21, '12, 5:08 am
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Kaninchen Kaninchen is offline
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

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Originally Posted by Sam_777 View Post
I personally have no problem with GOD's law whether that from the OT, NT, or even Islam............

What led me to Jesus is His love and wisdom, in my entire life I never seen verses such as those written in the Bible (OT+NT), all the Arabs with all their beautiful rhymed prose books and all what is written in Quran cannot match even 10% of what is written in the Bible..........
Sorry, Sam, I was 'pulling your leg'.
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  #7  
Old Feb 21, '12, 6:23 am
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

Is this list scientific or "scientific"? A quick review of it shows a .10 score drop from 09 to 11 for Canada, a .3 drop for the US, a .3 rise for the UK, over a 1 point rise for SA, and .5 drop for Israel, and Iceland went from a 3.37 to a 3.03 back to a 3.37 [would indicate some major upheavels in Iceland in regards to personal freedoms]. I'm thinking its more of a "scientific" list than scientific; especially since personnal freedom is based around rather "soft" concepts of individual freedom and social tolerance. It would be nice if the site showed us how they got their conclusions.
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  #8  
Old Feb 21, '12, 6:29 am
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_777 View Post
The latest 2011 Legatum Prosperity "Personal Freedom" rankings puts Canada in 1st place, US in 12, Saudi Arabia in 92, and Israel in 93.

Actually I'm surprised to see the US in the 12th position, I expected it at least to be in the top 3!

I'm also surprised to see my country before Israel, where we actually have one imposed religion and zero freedom and this latest incident concur with that...........
Does it surprise me that the "Land of the Free" isn't even in the top 10?

I do find it interesting that the US scored 1st place for health....with our "broken healthcare system" that had to be taken over by the federal government.
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- Abraham Lincoln
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  #9  
Old Feb 21, '12, 7:25 am
Michael C Michael C is offline
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

I'm in an international business moving people and freight all over the world. This business gives me a good indication of a Countries freedom. The USA is not an easy place to import or export and it's getting more and more regulated.

Israel is not an easy place to import or export. I personally find South & Central America to be among the worst. All of the laws and regs are intended to make sure you violate some ridiculous requirment. These violations are very serious but for some reason can always be fixed with some sort of payment.

Free trade is a myth. India and China are very restrictive. Free trade is a term that helps Americans feel good about a one way agreement. Strangely Hong Kong is among the very best.

Just my 2 cents.

P.S. Don't ship anything offensive to Islam to a country in the middle east....that's a no-no. I have to give these specific instructions to my clients.
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  #10  
Old Feb 21, '12, 9:17 am
scipio337 scipio337 is offline
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael C View Post
I'm in an international business moving people and freight all over the world. This business gives me a good indication of a Countries freedom. The USA is not an easy place to import or export and it's getting more and more regulated.

Israel is not an easy place to import or export. I personally find South & Central America to be among the worst. All of the laws and regs are intended to make sure you violate some ridiculous requirment. These violations are very serious but for some reason can always be fixed with some sort of payment.

Free trade is a myth. India and China are very restrictive. Free trade is a term that helps Americans feel good about a one way agreement. Strangely Hong Kong is among the very best.

Just my 2 cents.

P.S. Don't ship anything offensive to Islam to a country in the middle east....that's a no-no. I have to give these specific instructions to my clients.
And don't import any shrimp into the US from China!

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  #11  
Old Feb 21, '12, 10:26 am
Michael C Michael C is offline
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

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Originally Posted by scipio337 View Post
And don't import any shrimp into the US from China!

The very thought of the bread basket of the world importing ANY food from China is crazy.

It's eveidently so cheap to import because they have no standards/regulations.

Contrary to what people think wages is not what drives up prices in the USA, it's opressive regulations. But I digress...
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  #12  
Old Feb 21, '12, 12:42 pm
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Scott_Lafrance Scott_Lafrance is offline
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael C View Post
The very thought of the bread basket of the world importing ANY food from China is crazy.

It's eveidently so cheap to import because they have no standards/regulations.

Contrary to what people think wages is not what drives up prices in the USA, it's opressive regulations. But I digress...
Well, to be honest, its a bit of both. Items with high margins and low per unit shipping costs it makes sense to have them made overseas where production costs are pennies on the dollar here. It costs Apple less to have an iPad made in China and shipped over here than it does to have it made here, where the labor costs are 4-5 times what they are in China. Now, automobiles and industrial equipment, big difference, but the margins on that stuff is much smaller, precisely because of direct labor and ongoing overhead (retirement accounts, healthcare costs). We've all heard that it cost GM more money per vehicle in labor related costs than it does in raw materials and the cost of assembly.
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Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.

- Abraham Lincoln
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  #13  
Old Feb 21, '12, 12:51 pm
Michael C Michael C is offline
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

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Originally Posted by Scott_Lafrance View Post
Well, to be honest, its a bit of both. Items with high margins and low per unit shipping costs it makes sense to have them made overseas where production costs are pennies on the dollar here. It costs Apple less to have an iPad made in China and shipped over here than it does to have it made here, where the labor costs are 4-5 times what they are in China. Now, automobiles and industrial equipment, big difference, but the margins on that stuff is much smaller, precisely because of direct labor and ongoing overhead (retirement accounts, healthcare costs). We've all heard that it cost GM more money per vehicle in labor related costs than it does in raw materials and the cost of assembly.
I think the auto industry may be a bad example. Don't they get something like 6 unexcused days from work? In the real world just try not showing up for work. To be clear. I have no problem with free trade under two conditions.

#1 - It's actually free. NAFTA is called a free trade agreement but I challenge anyone on these boards to read the volumes and volumes of regs outlining the "Free" trade.

#2 - It's both ways. I can't ship anything to China unless the importer has a permit from the government.
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  #14  
Old Feb 21, '12, 1:16 pm
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

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Originally Posted by Michael C View Post
I think the auto industry may be a bad example. Don't they get something like 6 unexcused days from work? In the real world just try not showing up for work. To be clear. I have no problem with free trade under two conditions.

#1 - It's actually free. NAFTA is called a free trade agreement but I challenge anyone on these boards to read the volumes and volumes of regs outlining the "Free" trade.

#2 - It's both ways. I can't ship anything to China unless the importer has a permit from the government.
I can't argue with your points. NAFTA is anything but free trade. I guess NARTA sounds kinda lame (North American Regulated Trade Agreement)
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Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.

- Abraham Lincoln
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  #15  
Old Feb 21, '12, 1:50 pm
MugenOne MugenOne is offline
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Default Re: Personal Freedom: Saudi Arabia# 92, Israel# 93 !

Hong Kong is one of the best place to do business. Hong Kong has a laissez-faire economy. It's no exim tax.
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