They're not Mohammedans. They're Muslims.

[PumpkinSeed]

Originally Posted by Trebor135

Just for the record, in his 2006 Regensburg address the pope was quoting Manuel II Palaiologos, a fourteenth-century Byzantine emperor.



Do you have any comprehensive journalistic or academic sources to back up your claims? I know that abandoning Islam in Muslim countries is dangerous, but I wasn't aware that converts to Christianity were being killed daily. I would expect that they would be very discrete about their change of religious beliefs so as to avoid detection by family, acquaintances, friends, and police informers.

A simple google search will give you more results than I ever could.

[adoglover1956]

Originally Posted by Trebor135

Just for the record, in his 2006 Regensburg address the pope was quoting Manuel II Palaiologos, a fourteenth-century Byzantine emperor.



Do you have any comprehensive journalistic or academic sources to back up your claims? I know that abandoning Islam in Muslim countries is dangerous, but I wasn't aware that converts to Christianity were being killed daily. I would expect that they would be very discrete about their change of religious beliefs so as to avoid detection by family, acquaintances, friends, and police informers.

Trebor...just christians being persecuted. Then be prepared to spend a lot of time watching and reading. Perhaps check out voice of the martyrs. Or perhaps www.memri.org. There are lots of them out there. Even Christianity Today...a magazine...has stories on it. Then read the news.

[Trebor135]

Ahh, so you were speaking more generally. I've read and heard some rather harrowing accounts from various sources, actually. From The Oregonian (even an obscure newspaper, for a Canadian like me, will cover this issue), "Egypt's Christian converts risk abuse" (PDF file), should give any interested parties a glimpse into the trials Christian converts in Muslim countries endure.

[adoglover1956]

Originally Posted by Trebor135

Ahh, so you were speaking more generally. I've read and heard some rather harrowing accounts from various sources, actually. From The Oregonian (even an obscure newspaper, for a Canadian like me, will cover this issue), "Egypt's Christian converts risk abuse" (PDF file), should give any interested parties a glimpse into the trials Christian converts in Muslim countries endure.

[jakasaki]

Originally Posted by Trebor135

Just for the record, in his 2006 Regensburg address the pope was quoting Manuel II Palaiologos, a fourteenth-century Byzantine emperor.



Do you have any comprehensive journalistic or academic sources to back up your claims? I know that abandoning Islam in Muslim countries is dangerous, but I wasn't aware that converts to Christianity were being killed daily. I would expect that they would be very discrete about their change of religious beliefs so as to avoid detection by family, acquaintances, friends, and police informants.

PS: "Egypt: Treatment of Christians" might be of interest, posted on YouTube: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3.

Apostasy under islam is death. It is considered "treason"

The person is given 3 attempts to redeem & return to islam . If not - death.

Yes, muslims who convert to Christianity are a no-no.

Don't you remember a few years ago when a muslim converted to Christianity and islam had a fatwa for his death and the pope protected him and baptized him on Easter..???

[LegoGE1947]

Originally Posted by Trebor135

Just for the record, in his 2006 Regensburg address the pope was quoting Manuel II Palaiologos, a fourteenth-century Byzantine emperor.



Do you have any comprehensive journalistic or academic sources to back up your claims? I know that abandoning Islam in Muslim countries is dangerous, but I wasn't aware that converts to Christianity were being killed daily. I would expect that they would be very discrete about their change of religious beliefs so as to avoid detection by family, acquaintances, friends, and police informants.

PS: "Egypt: Treatment of Christians" might be of interest, posted on YouTube: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3.

A few years ago a Muslim man converted to Christianity, and was threatened with the death penalty so he sought asylum at the Vatican

. Them guys in Muslim countries don't dilly dally around with you if you want to abandon your Muslim faith to go to another one especially Christianity. I think it was Time or Newsweek magazine that about a year ago had a picture of a beautiful Arab woman who did something considered wrong and they literally chopped her nose off!

[AlltheRoses]

Originally Posted by PumpkinSeed

Then I guess Mohammad is a terrorist because he does instruct his followers to kill Jews & Christians, and he mocks us for our beliefs. Ive posted the verses like 10 times now so I'm not going to do it again, but you can find them in the other thread with his source of revelations.

Honestly, I don't know why people keep telling me nasty things about Mohammad on this thread. I am not a Muslim. I don't think he was a prophet, nonetheless the final and most important one. I don't practice what he preached, but what he preached is, in my opinion, pretty irrelevant to my remarks and the topic of this thread.

The topic of this thread was whether it was appropriate to call Muslims Mohammedans despite their wishes on the contrary. I answered that I did not believe it to be appropriate to call Muslims Mohammedans. Even if I were convinced that Mohammad was a terrorist, that wouldn't change my view that it is wrong for Christians (and everyone else) to refer to Muslims as Mohammedans.

The failings of the founder of Islam don't mean that I should go out of my way to insult every member of that religion wherever and whenever possible when, in this case, it is so easy to avoid the offense. Calling me a Papist or Romanist wouldn't make me become a Protestant; calling a Muslim a Mohammedan isn't going to convert him/her to Christianity. It's just going to make him/her angry, defensive, and convinced that you are ignorant, so he/she doesn't have to listen to what you say because it's going to be wrong anyway.

For the record, I also have no real intention of only reading select verses from the Koran and presenting that as the sum total of the Islamic religion. Picking out a few verses from the Bible presents a caricature of Christianity, not the reality of it. Presenting a few verses from the Koran and ignoring any verses that might contradict that verse also shows a caricature of Islam, not the reality of it. Personally, I believe that the reality of Christianity is superior enough to the reality of Islam that I don't need to resort to making a caricature of Islam using the same tactics of cherry picking verses from the Bible that annoy me when employed by atheists.

[Filii Dei]

Originally Posted by Trebor135

Do you have any comprehensive journalistic or academic sources to back up your claims? I know that abandoning Islam in Muslim countries is dangerous, but I wasn't aware that converts to Christianity were being killed daily. I would expect that they would be very discrete about their change of religious beliefs so as to avoid detection by family, acquaintances, friends, and police informants.

Reading the news is a good habit. One does not have to search very far back to realise that such things still happen.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/30...tion-order.htm

Nonetheless, we do seem to be straying off topic.

[Daralharb]

Last night during the Ash Wednesday sermon, Deacon called them "Mohammedan".

I giggled internally at the thought of this thread.

[Trebor135]

Originally Posted by Filii Dei

Reading the news is a good habit. One does not have to search very far back to realise that such things still happen.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/30...tion-order.htm

Nonetheless, we do seem to be straying off topic.

I know. Actually, after that post I linked to one article I had in my files from three years ago about persecution of Egyptian converts to Christianity--this issue has been on my radar screen for years.

What I took from the person I was quoting originally was that Christian converts were openly or in secret being killed daily, raising the question of whether there are so many such converts out there who are that regularly discovered.

[hosemonkey]

Moslems, Mohammedans...whatever. The actions of moslems in the world have brought upon them the fear, hatred and contempt of the vast majority of the world's people who are not moslem. What is going on right now in Afganistan over a few burned copies of the koran is a prime example. This kind of totally irrational behaviour over a "holy" book is simply indicative of the 9th century mindset that afflicts many moslems. Their treatment of non-moslems and particularly women is merely a small view of what would be the fate of non-moslems under moslem rule. Mohammeddanism is the enemy of God, the enemy of the Church and the enemy of Western civilization. Ideally, it should be stamped out, practically, it should be rigidly defended against. I think that the Church and Western governments have been remiss in allowing Islam to make the inroads that they have made, they are a fith column against Western civilization. The possession of nuclear weapons by moslems is another huge danger that the West should eliminate. Let the flames begin, that's how I see it and I'm getting ready. We have wasted too many lives trying to bring these backward people out of their darkness, it is time to deal with this thug "religion" as it should be dealt with. They are nothing more than a menace.

[LegoGE1947]

Originally Posted by hosemonkey

Moslems, Mohammedans...whatever. The actions of moslems in the world have brought upon them the fear, hatred and contempt of the vast majority of the world's people who are not moslem. What is going on right now in Afganistan over a few burned copies of the koran is a prime example. This kind of totally irrational behaviour over a "holy" book is simply indicative of the 9th century mindset that afflicts many moslems. Their treatment of non-moslems and particularly women is merely a small view of what would be the fate of non-moslems under moslem rule. Mohammeddanism is the enemy of God, the enemy of the Church and the enemy of Western civilization. Ideally, it should be stamped out, practically, it should be rigidly defended against. I think that the Church and Western governments have been remiss in allowing Islam to make the inroads that they have made, they are a fith column against Western civilization. The possession of nuclear weapons by moslems is another huge danger that the West should eliminate. Let the flames begin, that's how I see it and I'm getting ready. We have wasted too many lives trying to bring these backward people out of their darkness, it is time to deal with this thug "religion" as it should be dealt with. They are nothing more than a menace.

And the liberals call Catholics a relic of the Middle Ages! They ought to take a look at Muslems if they really want to see a relic of the Middle Ages with how they treat women, people of other faiths, their aggressive behavior, and as you say getting totally irrational over a book that they could just as well print another copy of if it were destroyed!

\

[PumpkinSeed]

Originally Posted by Trebor135

Ahh, so you were speaking more generally. I've read and heard some rather harrowing accounts from various sources, actually. From The Oregonian (even an obscure newspaper, for a Canadian like me, will cover this issue), "Egypt's Christian converts risk abuse" (PDF file), should give any interested parties a glimpse into the trials Christian converts in Muslim countries endure.

Its not just abuse, its also a risk of death. If it means anything, Id rather be dead and with Jesus than convert to Islam.

[Trebor135]

Originally Posted by PumpkinSeed

Its not just abuse, its also a risk of death.

Indeed. Newspaper editors don't always choose the best headlines.

If it means anything, Id rather be dead and with Jesus than convert to Islam.

No disagreement here.

[LegoGE1947]

Originally Posted by Trebor135

Indeed. Newspaper editors don't always choose the best headlines.



No disagreement here.