Don't Want Kids, Want to Get Married

[etmom]

how do I do that? I'm sorry, I don't know.

[Moore11]

Originally Posted by etmom

how do I do that? I'm sorry, I don't know.

At the bottom of a post there is a quote button. I just used it with yours. Or you can use the quote icon on the top your post when you are writing it, or you can go old school and just cite the person and post number.

[etmom]

No, I do not think a couple should sterilize themselves in order to adopt. I don't think a couple should sterilize themselves for any reason. But neither is adoption to be relegated only to those who can't conceive a child, as some sort of second class way of creating a family. I saw no comments on this thread encouraging OP to be open to life AND consider the possiblity of adoption as mentioned in their post,

There is nothing not Catholic about adoption, even when a couple can have children.

[etmom]

Originally Posted by Kenny Kamel

If you want to get married and adopt then adopt, there is nothing selfish or unselfish about this or having children through marriage. I have heard so many people conjure up so many reasons why it is allegedly selfish to have children naturally, most recently because of this phony overpopulation crock. Yes there are many children in need but you cannot save them all, I would think it better to raise children the right way so that they'd be able to help those in need in the same way you so desire.

Ok, I think this is how to do this....

[etmom]

Originally Posted by Moore11

Dont get me wrong, people with means should adopt, by all means adopt 20 kids if you want, but dont deny your soul, your wife's soul, and your future baby's soul the chance to fulfill something that you are naturally made to do? I am wondering what you think the purpose of marriage is if it isnt to model a family?

Bottom line is I think you know that you are selfish but it isnt fun to say, so you coat it in this kind of "why would I want to bring kids into a world with suffering" kind of mentality to make you feel less guilty.
!

[etmom]

Originally Posted by aragonjohn1

You can adopt a child in a foreign country that you don't even have to visit for $1-34 a day or by donating to food for the poor remember it is best to donate to 1-3 charities
Or by getting involved in cc rcia or some other class where you can teach the faith

Shalom
God bless

[Moore11]

Originally Posted by Brofessor

My girlfriend has made "when I have kids" sentences before, and although we're not discussing it I'm thinking along the lines of "well, if she won't be happy otherwise, maybe one, if we adopt".

I guess my main argument against having kids is that there are so many children in need, it would be selfish to have children ourselves instead of adopting. Does anyone else have thoughts on this?
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The OP also posted this which is what people were responding to.

Please, before you go off on a false idea of what people are saying make sure you look at the context.
Everyone here supports adoption but the OP first stated that they didn't want kids then said the reason (which is bogus) is that it is selfish to have kids if other kids are in need and then said maybe adoption, then asked people's opinions. The OP talked of sterilizing himself THEN mentioned adoption. And that is what all those responses were about. Not about adoption in general as any Catholic who is worth their salt and has been involved in the pro life movement can tell you is a great and Holy thing.

You misunderstood.

[etmom]

There was another poster before me who seemed to feel along the same lines as well. I guess we both misunderstood.

I admit this thread was not primarily about adoption, but it seemed discouraging about adoption as a way, ALONG WITH being open to life, of creating families. It was surprising that no one pointed that out, that they can be done together, and the comments about adoption were certainly not as positive as the comments about creating new life.

Orphan adoption, especially international adoption (not just US domestic adoption as an alternative for abortion) is heavily promoted and supported in many protestant faiths. As a former protestant myself, I've been puzzled by the difference between the two.

I'll bow out, and thanks for the clarification.

[Moore11]

Originally Posted by etmom

There was another poster before me who seemed to feel along the same lines as well. I guess we both misunderstood.

I admit this thread was not primarily about adoption, but it seemed discouraging about adoption as a way, ALONG WITH being open to life, of creating families. It was surprising that no one pointed that out, that they can be done together, and the comments about adoption were certainly not as positive as the comments about creating new life.

Orphan adoption, especially international adoption (not just US domestic adoption as an alternative for abortion) is heavily promoted and supported in many protestant faiths. As a former protestant myself, I've been puzzled by the difference between the two.

I'll bow out, and thanks for the clarification.

The Catholic Church is the single largest adoption organization in the world. What is this difference you speak of?

[etmom]

Church based orphan/adoption ministries, adoption resources, including presenting adoption in CCD materials as a way that families are made, publicising and championing the plight of the orphans worldwide. Encouraging adoption to families who already have children. Including adoption as a way to grow families in preCana classes. Including adoption as a way families are formed in Catholic schools (definitely missing in our Catholic schools)

I have been a member of 5 different parishes due to relocation. Never has the tremendous need for adoptive families been promoted or even mentioned in any way. When we adopted the first time, everyone assumed I could no longer have children in our parish, as if that would be the only reason people would adopt. I'm involved in adoption support groups and online adoption groups with many families with both biological and children from adoption, and largely, they are protestant. In their Churches, they hear it preached regularly, they are given information about the need of adoption, how to adopt or support adoption on a regular basis. The nationwide "Orphan Sunday" to bring awareness to the issue is largely protestant. I find that odd.

Most ordinary Catholics I know associate the Catholic adoption efforts with US domestic adoption and Right to life efforts involved with supporting women with unintended pregnancies to choose adoption plans over abortion. Very necessary and important work, I'm not discounting it at all. There are many more families waiting for this type of adoption than there are children, sadly, due to abortion. There are thousands of available children urgently waiting families, many who will never find them. There are thousands of posts on Catholic boards about procreation and the duty to have children. Almost always, adoption is mentioned in the context of those who can't have children.

[Moore11]

Originally Posted by etmom

Church based orphan/adoption ministries, adoption resources, including presenting adoption in CCD materials as a way that families are made, publicising and championing the plight of the orphans worldwide. Encouraging adoption to families who already have children. Including adoption as a way to grow families in preCana classes. Including adoption as a way families are formed in Catholic schools (definitely missing in our Catholic schools)

I have been a member of 5 different parishes due to relocation. Never has the tremendous need for adoptive families been promoted or even mentioned in any way. When we adopted the first time, everyone assumed I could no longer have children in our parish, as if that would be the only reason people would adopt. I'm involved in adoption support groups and online adoption groups with many families with both biological and children from adoption, and largely, they are protestant. In their Churches, they hear it preached regularly, they are given information about the need of adoption, how to adopt or support adoption on a regular basis. The nationwide "Orphan Sunday" to bring awareness to the issue is largely protestant. I find that odd.

Most ordinary Catholics I know associate the Catholic adoption efforts with US domestic adoption and Right to life efforts involved with supporting women with unintended pregnancies to choose adoption plans over abortion. Very necessary and important work, I'm not discounting it at all. There are many more families waiting for this type of adoption than there are children, sadly, due to abortion. There are thousands of available children urgently waiting families, many who will never find them. There are thousands of posts on Catholic boards about procreation and the duty to have children. Almost always, adoption is mentioned in the context of those who can't have children.

Sounds like the Catholic Charities adoption chapter near you is getting a new volunteeer.

One of the awesome things about the Church is that there is almost always an outreach for ANY Holy cause that is a phone call or click away. But you are right that it would be nice to hear about it on Sundays. However that list is long and distinguished. Remember, unlike protestant Churches, the Mass is a sacrifice, not a business meeting. It is the responsibility of every Catholic to actively be involved in works of mercy. When you see an orphanage on TV? Nuns. When you read about an Orphanage in traditional literature, Nuns. When gay adoption becomes a state issue and a news item it is the Catholic Church that people talk about not some protestant Church. In fact I find it hard to see how anyone could get away from the HUGE influence of the Church if they were truly concerned about adoption. On a personal level, Go to an abortion clinic and pray. I pray with several people who have adopted babies that they saved outside of a death camp. Idea and excuse that Catholics are not active with or aware of the adoption option is bunk.
Perhaps you run accross teh assuption that those who adopt cannot have children in the Catholic circle rather than the protestant circle is because some protestant churches ok birth control.

I recommend learning about Dr Raymond Arroyo who has several shows and books on EWTN and Catholic radio. He is a very popular Catholic man who has many children, natural and adopted. His resources could be very helpful.

[etmom]

Originally Posted by Moore11

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Perhaps you run accross teh assuption that those who adopt cannot have children in the Catholic circle rather than the protestant circle is because some protestant churches ok birth control.

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Not sure why you would need to use birth control to adopt, or using birth control would make it more likely for a couple to adopt. The most active in the adoption world seem to be evangelicals, and many of them don't use ABC either.

I don't think the MASS itself has to be used as a communication vehicle, but an occaisional bulletin article, information available in the back of the church along with the other Catholic educational materials and support for adoptive families seems like a very Catholic thing to do. We do have the Sunday in every church I have attended where we are asked to consider financial supporting a child in need through an organization like CFCA. It doesn't seem that far of a stretch to ask families to consider if adoption could be part of God's plan for their family and information on the great need.

If the Church was filled with families with many children, yes, I could see perhaps why adoption isn't on the top of their list. I belong to a huge parish, and there are very few large families.

I have heard Dr. Ray Guarendi, Catholic author and speaker and adoptive father of many speak on adoption. I'm not saying it's not done. I have met Catholic adoptive families. You must admit, though, it's just not common or promoted. ALong with promoting the plight of the unborn, a cause I support wholeheartedly, can't we also promoting the plight of the orphan?

I advocate in my parish, I certainly advocate in my children's schools for inclusion of adoption as a way families are formed. The school was more worried about how ensure ALL the classmates were fully informed as to the exact nature of the relationship of the little girl with two moms (lesbian couple) and the political correctness of that, but my daughter who was adopted was asked not to include her birth family on her family tree project as it would be "hard to explain" and "might scare other children".

[Moore11]

Originally Posted by etmom

Not sure why you would need to use birth control to adopt, or using birth control would make it more likely for a couple to adopt. The most active in the adoption world seem to be evangelicals, and many of them don't use ABC either.

I don't think the MASS itself has to be used as a communication vehicle, but an occaisional bulletin article, information available in the back of the church along with the other Catholic educational materials and support for adoptive families seems like a very Catholic thing to do. We do have the Sunday in every church I have attended where we are asked to consider financial supporting a child in need through an organization like CFCA. It doesn't seem that far of a stretch to ask families to consider if adoption could be part of God's plan for their family and information on the great need.

If the Church was filled with families with many children, yes, I could see perhaps why adoption isn't on the top of their list. I belong to a huge parish, and there are very few large families.

I have heard Dr. Ray Guarendi, Catholic author and speaker and adoptive father of many speak on adoption. I'm not saying it's not done. I have met Catholic adoptive families. You must admit, though, it's just not common or promoted. ALong with promoting the plight of the unborn, a cause I support wholeheartedly, can't we also promoting the plight of the orphan?

I advocate in my parish, I certainly advocate in my children's schools for inclusion of adoption as a way families are formed. The school was more worried about how ensure ALL the classmates were fully informed as to the exact nature of the relationship of the little girl with two moms (lesbian couple) and the political correctness of that, but my daughter who was adopted was asked not to include her birth family on her family tree project as it would be "hard to explain" and "might scare other children".

One thing I would like to point out before we completely hijack this thread is that your objection seems to be with bad Catholics, not with the Church herself. I know many Catholics that adopt. Our best friends just adopted from Ethiopia and we are very involved in crisis pregnancy situations that strive to place Children with families. You may have some experiences to the contrary but the Church and Catholics in general adopt more children than any organization in the world. So, if you want to help with awareness or feel like you are constantly defending your adoptive position to ill informed Catholics then perhaps it is your calling to take up this cross and be that voice you say is missing. It is important to note that adoption is not for everyone and it should not be presented as something that MUST be done. You will always have opinions that differ from yours on this matter but your comfort should come from the Church herself who is in complete agreement with you. You should check out some of the adoption groups on this site and join them.
Remember that the Church and your average Catholic in the pew are sometimes two completely different things. Before you attack Catholics for adoption it would be wise to find out what the Church teaches.

But back to the thread.....

[Moore11]

Originally Posted by etmom

I advocate in my parish, I certainly advocate in my children's schools for inclusion of adoption as a way families are formed. The school was more worried about how ensure ALL the classmates were fully informed as to the exact nature of the relationship of the little girl with two moms (lesbian couple) and the political correctness of that, but my daughter who was adopted was asked not to include her birth family on her family tree project as it would be "hard to explain" and "might scare other children".

Sounds like a school and society problem rather than a Church problem. Perhaps this is why you seem to be a little sensitive on this subject.

[Moore11]

Originally Posted by etmom

Not sure why you would need to use birth control to adopt, or using birth control would make it more likely for a couple to adopt. The most active in the adoption world seem to be evangelicals, and many of them don't use ABC either.

I have no idea why you think this. Evangelicals do not teach that ABC is wrong. And even thought the Church does, most Catholics seem to hide that dirty little secret. So when you see a couple in a Evangelical Church with an adopted baby, you may easily assume that they adopt AND abc. In the Catholic Church even though most break the rules on ABC they may assume that someone who practices their faith enough to adopt may not be using ABC and if there are no bilogical children around then maybe they ASSUME that the couple is infertile. However any of these people would be doing something awful by assuming this and guessing about someones private life. (While we all know this shouldn't be done we also know that it is done.)
Do the research, check the numbers, Evangelicals adopt a small fraction of what the Church adopts. In fact, outside of donating money at Christian concert revivals I have never even heard of it.