Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > In The News > World News
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #16  
Old Feb 21, '12, 1:00 pm
unafraid unafraid is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2009
Posts: 537
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by scipio337 View Post
Government spending is 125%+ of GDP, and the loans on the debt is the problem?

What's Greece's credit rating, and would YOU lend them money with their current economy?

The interest rate on their debt is 3.5%, BTW.

Private sector debtors to Greece have to erase 53% of their debt.

Yeah, it's all the banks' fault!
I do not see how pointing out the vulnerability and naivete' of those victimized in any way expiates the guilt of the pervasive phenomenon of a rogue International Predatory Banking organism which has bound-up the global financial future with tendrils so intricately interwoven that genuine investigation is nearly impossible.

One may look upon a corpse in a dark alley, throat slit from ear to ear, and question the victim's wisdom at having chosen to walk down such a dangerous path, but one must never lose sight of the fact that the TRUE villain is the murderer who wielded the blade.

Please, out of simple decency, let us not exculpate the International Banks in this sad, and dangerous affair. It is a position that insults the intellect, and completely lacks credibility.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old Feb 21, '12, 1:08 pm
SamH SamH is offline
 
Join Date: June 10, 2009
Posts: 16,829
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by unafraid View Post
I do not see how pointing out the vulnerability and naivete' of those victimized in any way expiates the guilt of the pervasive phenomenon of a rogue International Predatory Banking organism which has bound-up the global financial future with tendrils so intricately interwoven that genuine investigation is nearly impossible.

One may look upon a corpse in a dark alley, throat slit from ear to ear, and question the victim's wisdom at having chosen to walk down such a dangerous path, but one must never lose sight of the fact that the TRUE villain is the murderer who wielded the blade.

Please, out of simple decency, let us not exculpate the International Banks in this sad, and dangerous affair. It is a position that insults the intellect, and completely lacks credibility.


That is hilarious.

If I took the post serious it would indeed be an insult to one's intellect.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old Feb 21, '12, 1:14 pm
scipio337 scipio337 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: July 22, 2008
Posts: 6,318
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamH View Post
That is hilarious.

If I took the post serious it would indeed be an insult to one's intellect.
For a moment, I thought I was reading the Daily Kos.

I suppose it could help if he pointed out what type of "naivete" forced to Greeks to spend their way into serfdom.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old Feb 21, '12, 2:03 pm
SamH SamH is offline
 
Join Date: June 10, 2009
Posts: 16,829
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by scipio337 View Post
For a moment, I thought I was reading the Daily Kos.

I suppose it could help if he pointed out what type of "naivete" forced to Greeks to spend their way into serfdom.
Agreed.

If only I had enemies that would take advantage of me in such away. Give me a $100,000 loan at prime that I use to buy a couple cars and take a nice vacation. Then after a while I demand that I only pay back $50,000 and bemoan my victim status to anyone that would listen.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old Feb 21, '12, 8:49 pm
gnjsdad gnjsdad is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2005
Posts: 4,623
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamH View Post
Do you know what usury is? It isn't 4% and 5% interest rates to an entity that only plans on paying back half of what it owes.


http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/busin...t-rates/498754
It is compounding of interest over time. Doesn't matter what the rate is. It is also immoral and condemned by the Church.
__________________
The expenses involved in health care, especially in the case of accidents at work, demand that medical assistance should be easily available for workers, and that as far as possible it should be cheap or even free of charge.

Pope John Paul II Laborem Exercens (19)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old Feb 22, '12, 6:37 am
Seamus L Seamus L is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2007
Posts: 3,432
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Any bailout deal worked out may be history after the Greek elections in two months http://m.cnbc.com/id/46462825

Hopefully the beginning of the end for the EU.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old Feb 22, '12, 7:13 am
SamH SamH is offline
 
Join Date: June 10, 2009
Posts: 16,829
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnjsdad View Post
It is compounding of interest over time. Doesn't matter what the rate is. It is also immoral and condemned by the Church.


Actually it is not.

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, circa 1912, "The Holy See admits practically the lawfulness of interest on loans, even for ecclesiastical property, though it has not promulgated any doctrinal decree on the subject".


"Usury" in the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia


Not to mention the fact that the Catholic Church is also in the business of charging compounding interest on the loans it makes.


http://www.vaticanbank.com/
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Feb 22, '12, 8:06 am
Scott_Lafrance's Avatar
Scott_Lafrance Scott_Lafrance is offline
Forum Supporter
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2004
Posts: 19,792
Religion: Catholic In Faith Only
Send a message via AIM to Scott_Lafrance
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by scipio337 View Post
Of course. The Greeks citizens are mad because their gravy train is coming to an end. I like how Victor Davis Hanson put it:



http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson121911.html

The US should pay attention, or debt/GDP ratio will be at Greek levels in less than 10 years.
Our unfunded liabilities make Greek look like a reality sitcom.
__________________
Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.

- Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old Feb 22, '12, 12:45 pm
gnjsdad gnjsdad is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2005
Posts: 4,623
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamH View Post
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, circa 1912, "The Holy See admits practically the lawfulness of interest on loans, even for ecclesiastical property, though it has not promulgated any doctrinal decree on the subject".


"Usury" in the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia
That statement requires a great deal of clarification. If by "the lawfulness of interest on loans" is meant the imposition of a one-time percentage fee to cover the risk of default on the part of the borrower, then that would be OK. If, on the other hand by "the lawfulness of interest on loans" is meant interest compounding over time, thus increasing the debt burden, then that constitutes usury. The Church has always condemned usury.

As far as Greece is concenred, for it to be morally legitimate, the bailout loan cannot have any interest payments associated with it. That would be extracting more money from the Greek people and government than they would owe. The lender has the right to be made whole, not to anything more. If the banks take anything more, they are required to make restitution to the Greek people and government. They can add a one time fee to cover the risk of default, but that's all they are morally entitled to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamH
Not to mention the fact that the Catholic Church is also in the business of charging compounding interest on the loans it makes.


http://www.vaticanbank.com/
There is no such thing as the "Vatican Bank". Your link goes to a URL domain peddler. How can we take your unsupported assertion (that the Catholic Church is in the business of charging compounding interest on the loans it makes) seriously when all you offer in support is a completely non-relevant URL domain?
__________________
The expenses involved in health care, especially in the case of accidents at work, demand that medical assistance should be easily available for workers, and that as far as possible it should be cheap or even free of charge.

Pope John Paul II Laborem Exercens (19)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Feb 22, '12, 12:57 pm
Brendan's Avatar
Brendan Brendan is online now
Forum Master
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 12,891
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnjsdad View Post
They can add a one time fee to cover the risk of default, but that's all they are morally entitled to do.
In this, you are incorrect. The payment CAN be extracted over time, as the risk of the loan is incurrent for as long as the loan is active.

The longer a loan is in existance, the greater the risk incurred by the lender. But, since the option for prepayment exists, the actual risk cannot be foretold.

Hence a payment schedule is agreed upon by both the lender and the lendee that shows what the total interest would be ( your 'one time fee') so to speak, but it is amortized over the life of the loan.

Hence, if the loan is repaid early, the risk of default is eliminated, and thus the full amount of the risk payment is not charged.

If the loan is active for the full term, the full interest payment is charged, and it was paid in installments during the life of the loan.

At the early part of the loan, when the principle is greater, the risk is therefore greater and the interest paid is more. Later in the loan, when the principle is less, the amount of risk is less, therefore the interest charged is less.

Hence the whole concept of amortization.
__________________
Brendan
________________________________________ _______
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old Feb 22, '12, 1:06 pm
Brendan's Avatar
Brendan Brendan is online now
Forum Master
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 12,891
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnjsdad View Post
As far as Greece is concenred, for it to be morally legitimate, the bailout loan cannot have any interest payments associated with it.
That would be incorrect. As the bank is the safeguard of other people's money, it cannot put the account owners money at risk without a safeguard in place of either collateral or the promise of interest in proportion to the risk.


Quote:
There is no such thing as the "Vatican Bank". ?
That is correct, it's official name is the Institute for Works of Religion, but it is commonly called "The Vatican Bank", as it is location in the Vatican City State and is under the auspices of the Holy See. It safeguards the assets of the Church that are not specifically owned by the Holy See. It raises funds by both solicitation and via investments.

It has a lay CEO overseen by a board of Cardinals. It is a shareholder in a number of corporations and banks (as part of it's investment portfolio)
__________________
Brendan
________________________________________ _______
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Feb 22, '12, 1:28 pm
SamH SamH is offline
 
Join Date: June 10, 2009
Posts: 16,829
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnjsdad View Post
That statement requires a great deal of clarification. If by "the lawfulness of interest on loans" is meant the imposition of a one-time percentage fee to cover the risk of default on the part of the borrower, then that would be OK. If, on the other hand by "the lawfulness of interest on loans" is meant interest compounding over time, thus increasing the debt burden, then that constitutes usury. The Church has always condemned usury.

As far as Greece is concenred, for it to be morally legitimate, the bailout loan cannot have any interest payments associated with it. That would be extracting more money from the Greek people and government than they would owe. The lender has the right to be made whole, not to anything more. If the banks take anything more, they are required to make restitution to the Greek people and government. They can add a one time fee to cover the risk of default, but that's all they are morally entitled to do.
And I missed all your sourced information supporting your claim.

The Institute for Works of Religion commonly known as the Vatican Bank, is a privately held institute located inside Vatican City run by a professional bank CEO who reports directly to a committee of cardinals, and ultimately to the Pope (or the Camerlengo of the Holy Roman Church during a sede vacante).


http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Vatican_City.aspx


Surprising enough our own diocese makes loans to churches and schools for capital improvements. It charges 3.5% interest on the outstanding balance. That is who the "Construction Loan Payable" is to on the financial statements.


http://www.sbc-sjc.com/
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old Feb 22, '12, 1:33 pm
Nec5's Avatar
Nec5 Nec5 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2009
Posts: 2,420
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

I'd like to hear from everyday Greek citizens. All the news reports I hear are so called experts making things seem awfully cut and dry about the citizenry being greedy and the well running dry. I'm sure that's part of the truth, but I have a hunch there's more going on via banks, the government, corporations, the UN, the EU, etc.
__________________
Stop saying, "Don't judge". Every single person is judgmental.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old Feb 22, '12, 1:52 pm
Seamus L Seamus L is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2007
Posts: 3,432
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

How bad things are getting http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ir-elders.html
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old Feb 22, '12, 11:08 pm
GraceSofia GraceSofia is offline
Regular Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: August 15, 2009
Posts: 1,798
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Greece gears up for tough reforms under new bailout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nec5 View Post
I'd like to hear from everyday Greek citizens. All the news reports I hear are so called experts making things seem awfully cut and dry about the citizenry being greedy and the well running dry. I'm sure that's part of the truth, but I have a hunch there's more going on via banks, the government, corporations, the UN, the EU, etc.
Greeks are human beings just like Americans. Aren't there Americans who lose their jobs and then just CAN'T get hired anywhere? They can't make their house payments, they lose their homes, then their health and it becomes a vicious cycle. I am sure the U.S. government does things you don't like, same with Greeks.

Here is an ordinary Greek telling his story:

Quote:
In 2010, he lost his job to Greece's worst recession in decades and joined the ranks of tens of thousands of unemployed. When he could no longer afford his mortgage, he lost his home and was forced to roam the streets.

"I felt like I was living in a movie. My life changed 180 degrees. I was lost," Papadopoulos said, wringing his hands as he recalls how he struggled to find a sleeping place in an abandoned building. "The street is unbearable."
Quote:
"I never thought this could happen to me. I later realised how thin the line is," Papadopoulos said. "It can happen to anyone. We are all potentially homeless."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/0...78B3PD20110913
It is quite frightening.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > In The News > World News

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8043Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: HillsongUnited
4828CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: tawny
4294Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: James_OPL
4027OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: fencersmother
3812SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2
3376Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: James_OPL
3184Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: libralion
3150Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
2961For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: tammany
2701Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 4:29 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2013, Catholic Answers.