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  #16  
Old Feb 21, '12, 5:18 pm
maurin maurin is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevalier View Post
You've probably done that but I'd mention SSPX in confession and inquire about any ecclesiastical penalties that could need to be removed. Sorry for lack of other suggestions but I'm not great when it comes to a feeling of belonging. Been a struggle all my life. Don't reject your "normal" parish, see if you can get involved.
What penalties?

I have gone (almost) exclusively to SSPX. Chapels for Mass for the past 4.5 years. When I know, due to time constrainsts, that I will be unable to confess to my regular confessor, I go to a local NO Parish for Confession. I have developed a nice rapport with a particular Priest over the last year or so there, and really appreciate his counsel in the Confessional. He knows I do not go to the NO Mass, and go (almost) exclusively to the Society.

Neither he nor my Society Confessor see anything wrong with this.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but I think its important to clear up the issue chevalier has brought up.
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  #17  
Old Feb 21, '12, 5:53 pm
archangel04 archangel04 is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

sicutincensum, you are not alone! I go through the same situation. I lost many friends, and I wonder if I ever will find a girl that apprecites my faith. Everyday I am tempted to go back to my promiscuous lifestyle. Being traidtionalist is very hard, especially if you live in a liberal city, which I am sure you can relate. Your fellow Catholics don't even like you because of the spirituality one has chosen. Many days I feel so alone and get tempted to just go back. But I guess this is my cross to bear and if it is I only ask God that he gives me the strenght to carry it. By the way Martial arts is great! I am going back to training once I get some free time, nothing improves discipline like MA. The only advise I can give you is to pray.
  #18  
Old Feb 21, '12, 7:55 pm
YoungCanRCMale YoungCanRCMale is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

Quote:
Originally Posted by prettiefly View Post
I am part of a Traditional Latin Mass community, completely approved and supported by our local Bishop - we have had two marraiges and one soon, possible engagement within our community recently. All three situations the young people met on the internet via a singles website for Traditional Latin Mass Catholics. Our community is very small, so to have such good success so far with this speakes for itself.
If being a Traditional Latin Mass Catholic (I don't know of any better phrase) is the most important criteria for you, it would be wise to check out this option for finding a like-minded bride.
Oh, and one of the couples that was married this past Summer just told us they are expecting their first child
Good luck and God bless~
May I ask what traditional Latim Mass site that these people came together by, even though I'm in Canada?
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  #19  
Old Feb 21, '12, 8:00 pm
YoungCanRCMale YoungCanRCMale is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

Hey, original poster, I am just curious, can you share what made you want to go to the SSPX in the first place,

But furthermore, why did you leave? This is more important to me. I need to know what reasoning or whys were there to get you to leave the Society. It's just there's someone I many need to talk to in future regarding this "issue."
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  #20  
Old Feb 21, '12, 10:57 pm
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prettiefly prettiefly is offline
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Smile Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by YoungCanRCMale View Post
May I ask what traditional Latim Mass site that these people came together by, even though I'm in Canada?
I don't know the name of it, but I can find out. It doesn't matter that you are in Canada - one of the young ladies from our Latin Mass community here in California met a Canadian on a Trad dating site, and now she is his bride, living in Canada.
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  #21  
Old Feb 22, '12, 12:02 pm
sicutincensum sicutincensum is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

Quote:
Originally Posted by archangel04 View Post
sicutincensum, you are not alone! I go through the same situation. I lost many friends, and I wonder if I ever will find a girl that apprecites my faith. Everyday I am tempted to go back to my promiscuous lifestyle. Being traidtionalist is very hard, especially if you live in a liberal city, which I am sure you can relate. Your fellow Catholics don't even like you because of the spirituality one has chosen. Many days I feel so alone and get tempted to just go back. But I guess this is my cross to bear and if it is I only ask God that he gives me the strenght to carry it. By the way Martial arts is great! I am going back to training once I get some free time, nothing improves discipline like MA. The only advise I can give you is to pray.
Thank you very much! If you wish, we can keep in contact.
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  #22  
Old Feb 22, '12, 12:14 pm
sicutincensum sicutincensum is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungCanRCMale View Post
Hey, original poster, I am just curious, can you share what made you want to go to the SSPX in the first place
Sure. It was a gradual process. First I became inlove with the TLM (which I still am and will always be, God willingly). I approached some diocesan priests who liked or even celebrated the TLM. Back then, this was January-June 2009, it was expected that the SSPX would be reintegrated at any minute, and there was great tolerance towards them after the lifting of the excommunications. Thus, I accepted to go to the Holy Week services in a SSPX chapel, which were in that year celebrated by a diocesan priest. Eventually I started reading many of their material, and, together with a close friend, we beggan, albeit very relutanctly, one or two SSPX masses, and, step by step, we became extremely involved. My friend still is. It was a slippery slope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungCanRCMale View Post
But furthermore, why did you leave? This is more important to me. I need to know what reasoning or whys were there to get you to leave the Society. It's just there's someone I many need to talk to in future regarding this "issue."
If you want, we can discuss the details by PM, e-mail or IM. However, very briefly, it was the SSPX's judgement of the Novus Ordo Mass that made me question them, and eventually abandon them. The SSPX believes the Novus Ordo Mass is bad in itself (because it lacks some good it should possess), and even considers active participation on the NOM a sin. Of course, many SSPX attendents don't believe this. But I've always been a very logical person, and I noticed that if the SSPX were wrong (and they are) in this subject, then their position falls.

Archbishop Lefebvre said in the Écône ordinations: "As you well know, there cannot be priests without bishops (...) and who are the bishops that have kept the faith and the sacraments as the church as taught them for twenty centuries? Those are Bishop de Castro Mayer and myself, I cannot change that" (I quote by heart). Well, if the NOM is legitimate and compatible with the Catholic faith, then there was no state of necessity.

However, if the NOM is bad in itself, then the Church would have to correct this one day, and admit She was mistaken for 50 years, imposing a rite that does not sanctify de per se. There is no middle road here (which is not the case with the interpretation of CVII). Here it's white or black. If the NOM is white, then the SSPX is not justified in its actions. If the NOM is black, then the gates of hell have prevailed against the Church.
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  #23  
Old Feb 22, '12, 12:15 pm
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1AugustSon7 1AugustSon7 is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

I often feel the same way simply being a Roman Catholic. My family is entirely secularist thanks, in large part, to the fact that many of our patriarchs were Masons, and you can imagine the feeling that spirit engenders toward Roman Catholicism. There is exactly zero religion in my family, which makes eating together awkward for me but especially celebrating the holidays. Add into that mix some "mixed-marriages", divorces, et cetera, and keeping it all together has taught me to be quite the diplomatic statesman.

I find prayer, especially traditional prayers, to be the greatest relief. I don't think it accidental that most of the Psalms deal with isolation and seperation from community to the point of even being persecuted by your community. When you're feeling down, pray the Psalms and pray traditional prayers. The grace of God will come to you.

As always, keep the Faith, and offer up all your hardships. Beg for increases in virtue, both human and divine. Ask especially for wisdom (and whenever I ask for wisdom I always ask for chastity and discipline to accompany it also, given King Solomon's example.)
  #24  
Old Feb 22, '12, 3:22 pm
Agape11 Agape11 is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

I'm not certain where all of you single male Traditionalist live but I'm a single 31 y/o female who is seeking a Traditional minded male I know this isn't a dating site but... just thought I'd throw that out there.

I choose to imitate the Virgin Mary in her humility, submissiveness, and obedience to Christ and when I get married, my husband. The Bible and the Catechism outline my role as a wife, and I fully intend to live according to the church's teaching on this matter.
  #25  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:00 am
maurin maurin is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

Quote:
Originally Posted by sicutincensum View Post



If you want, we can discuss the details by PM, e-mail or IM. However, very briefly, it was the SSPX's judgement of the Novus Ordo Mass that made me question them, and eventually abandon them. The SSPX believes the Novus Ordo Mass is bad in itself (because it lacks some good it should possess), and even considers active participation on the NOM a sin. Of course, many SSPX attendents don't believe this. But I've always been a very logical person, and I noticed that if the SSPX were wrong (and they are) in this subject, then their position falls.

Archbishop Lefebvre said in the Écône ordinations: "As you well know, there cannot be priests without bishops (...) and who are the bishops that have kept the faith and the sacraments as the church as taught them for twenty centuries? Those are Bishop de Castro Mayer and myself, I cannot change that" (I quote by heart). Well, if the NOM is legitimate and compatible with the Catholic faith, then there was no state of necessity.

However, if the NOM is bad in itself, then the Church would have to correct this one day, and admit She was mistaken for 50 years, imposing a rite that does not sanctify de per se. There is no middle road here (which is not the case with the interpretation of CVII). Here it's white or black. If the NOM is white, then the SSPX is not justified in its actions. If the NOM is black, then the gates of hell have prevailed against the Church.
I don't agree with your concluding statement at all, sicutincensum.

As Aristotle taught, there is always a mean between two extremes. You are citing two extremes. The way several Society priests have explained when I've asked is that the evil which is inherent in the NO Mass is not necessarily that which is included, but in that which was excluded, most notably in the Canon, and the de emphasis on Sacrifice and the emphasis on communal meal; one example among a few.

So no, I do not believe that many of us in the pews of the Chapels of the Society are fed a diet of such polemics. If the Society ever took the position that the gates of hell have prevailed, the Society wouild have ceased being the Society. It never took that position, as is clearly implied in your conclusion. The only criticism of the NO Mass I have ever heard relates directly to the watering down of doctrine, and the unsacredness of the atmosphere in the average Mass, which are cocnlusions I had already drawn before even finding the Society.

When I first joined this forum, back in 06 was it?, I didn't know the Society existed. It was here that I learned of them, and realized slowly I was in almost complete agreement with their positions, as I understand them.
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If your faith, your doctrine and your spirituality are founded on the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, you abide in truth. You cannot be mistaken when you have established your faith on the holy sacrifice of the Mass. +Archbishop Lefebvre
  #26  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:59 am
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Sirach2 Sirach2 is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

Maurin,

You are white-washing the explicit teaching of the SSPX on their own website, but perhaps the chapel you attend is a bit more lenient in explaining this to their people. You are misinformed, and therefore are mininforming others. This is the statement that others may be referring to:

"However, regardless of the gravity of the sacrilege, the New Mass still remains a sacrilege, and it is still in itself sinful. Furthermore, it is never permitted to knowingly and willingly participate in an evil or sinful thing, even if it is only venially sinful. For the end does not justify the means. Consequently, although it is a good thing to want to assist at Mass and satisfy one’s Sunday obligation, it is never permitted to use a sinful means to do this.
To assist at the New Mass, for a person who is aware of the objective sacrilege involved, is consequently at least a venial sin. It is opportunism. Consequently, it is not permissible for a traditional Catholic, who understands that the New Mass is insulting to Our Divine Savior, to assist at the New Mass, and this even if there is no danger of scandal to others or of the perversion of one’s own Faith (as in an older person, for example), and even if it is the only Mass available. [Answered by Fr. Peter R. Scott]"

http://sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/cathol...alconfirmation
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  #27  
Old Feb 23, '12, 9:08 am
Old Salt Old Salt is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

Dear sir,
You write that you left the SSPX.
Were you a priest or brother, in the Society, bcause only clerics can be members of the SSPX as laymen are just Catholics who assist at SSPX Masses.

There is no sin or penalty with fulfilling your holyday obligation at an SSPX Mass if done out of devotion to the Usus Antiquor, and not to conciously seperate yourself from the Holy Father.

My spiritual advisor [an FSSP priest] says I can go to SSPX Mass's.
  #28  
Old Feb 23, '12, 11:42 am
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Boulder257 Boulder257 is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

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Originally Posted by Old Salt View Post
Dear sir,
You write that you left the SSPX.
Were you a priest or brother, in the Society, bcause only clerics can be members of the SSPX as laymen are just Catholics who assist at SSPX Masses.

There is no sin or penalty with fulfilling your holyday obligation at an SSPX Mass if done out of devotion to the Usus Antiquor, and not to conciously seperate yourself from the Holy Father.

My spiritual advisor [an FSSP priest] says I can go to SSPX Mass's.
This seems somewhat odd to me in that you can't ignore certain facts to only focus on the facts you want. This logic doesn't hold up when committing sins, so why does it hold up here? The SSPX does not have faculties to celebrate the sacraments and therefore, it does not fulfill the Sunday obligation. Furthermore, participating in these masses is supporting an organization that is not in Communion with Rome

Please see the following answer from an apologetic posted within the past week... http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=646107
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  #29  
Old Feb 23, '12, 1:06 pm
maurin maurin is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirach2 View Post
Maurin,

You are white-washing the explicit teaching of the SSPX on their own website, but perhaps the chapel you attend is a bit more lenient in explaining this to their people. You are misinformed, and therefore are mininforming others. This is the statement that others may be referring to:

"However, regardless of the gravity of the sacrilege, the New Mass still remains a sacrilege, and it is still in itself sinful. Furthermore, it is never permitted to knowingly and willingly participate in an evil or sinful thing, even if it is only venially sinful. For the end does not justify the means. Consequently, although it is a good thing to want to assist at Mass and satisfy one’s Sunday obligation, it is never permitted to use a sinful means to do this.
To assist at the New Mass, for a person who is aware of the objective sacrilege involved, is consequently at least a venial sin. It is opportunism. Consequently, it is not permissible for a traditional Catholic, who understands that the New Mass is insulting to Our Divine Savior, to assist at the New Mass, and this even if there is no danger of scandal to others or of the perversion of one’s own Faith (as in an older person, for example), and even if it is the only Mass available. [Answered by Fr. Peter R. Scott]"

http://sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/cathol...alconfirmation
Your personal accusations aside, what you have quoted applies to someone like me, who agrees whole heartedly with the assessment. That is why I have not gone to a NO Mass in 4 1/2 years, save for family weddings and funerals.

For those who are in the NO, what you have cited does not apply to them. No Society Priest that I know would tell you you are sinning for attending the NO Mass, sirach.

I pleasantly ask you to ask me questions first for clarification before accusing me of whitewashing something or being misinformed. Thank you in advance.
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  #30  
Old Feb 23, '12, 1:37 pm
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Sirach2 Sirach2 is offline
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Default Re: Four months after leaving the SSPX

Maurin,

Why do you accuse me of making "personal accusations?" You are over-reacting. Read again, where I stated clearly, "but perhaps the chapel you attend is a bit more lenient in explaining this to their people." And I stand by that, since the SSPX website's FAQ's clearly describe the NO as sacrilegious and state that it is at least a venial sin to attend the mass.

If the SSPX have relaxed their former teaching, they have not updated their website stating so. Can you claim with absolute certainty that ALL chapels no longer teach this? Perhaps, as I said, your chapel is different, but is it representative of the majority of chapels all over the world? I do believe that statements from SSPX laity generally whitewash their teachings to make the SSPX appear more "user-friendly" to outsiders. This is not at all unusual.
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