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  #16  
Old Feb 22, '12, 11:36 am
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Contra Mundum Contra Mundum is offline
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

You mean the homosexuals that drive the gay 'marriage' movement? I guess they want to normalise their relationships and make them equal to marriage.

Those who are not ideologically driven? Sex, I guess. That is the basis of their identity as far as I can tell.
  #17  
Old Feb 22, '12, 1:43 pm
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueEyedLady View Post
If I posed the question "What exactly is it that Catholics want?" I would get many different answers and there would be a lot of disagreement on the thread. It would be even more diverse if I asked that to Catholics nationwide instead of just on CAF. Like Catholics, gay people are individuals with their own opinions, wants, needs, hopes, dreams, desires and thoughts. The people who responded with things like "power" or "validation" are just plain guilty of dehumanization.
However this thread is not about that, so my friend, feel free to start one on that.

I don't mean to be mean or uncharitable, but it is essential we stay on topic.
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  #18  
Old Feb 22, '12, 1:57 pm
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

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Originally Posted by rhiannonh View Post
to be accepted and loved as any sinner is in the community.....though I don't know what they want since I am not one and therefore be wrong to put my judgement of what they want.
Stop putting labels on people and start loving each other as Jesus has taught us to do.
I quite agree with your impulse. I would add, however, that loving someone (as Jesus taught us means loving them to heaven. If the act is offensive to God and potentially damaging to one's immortal soul, then shouldn't we, as followers of Christ do everything (in a charitable manner) to get them to heaven?

Somtimes, this is the hard road. It is easy to confirm someone steeped in sin in the interest of feeling good about ourselves because of our openmindedness, but I challenge you...is that real love? Is that the love of Christ?

Just to be clear, I do not advocate judging or condemning anyone. I, too am a sinner who needs the support of my fellow Christians to work out my salvation. I think that is one reason God made us social beings...
  #19  
Old Feb 22, '12, 2:00 pm
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

I think that it must vary among homosexuals, but I think they just want to be normal. They want to have a wedding, wear wedding rings, go on a honeymoon, and form a bond for life. Many of them probably want children as well, to be members of the PTA and to volunteer as chaperons at the prom when their kids are in high school. They can already do all of these things - but without societal approval or more importantly, government approval. This is what I believe they want - equality. They just don't see the things they do as sin.
  #20  
Old Feb 22, '12, 3:10 pm
BlueEyedLady BlueEyedLady is offline
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

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Originally Posted by LoyalViews View Post
However this thread is not about that, so my friend, feel free to start one on that.

I don't mean to be mean or uncharitable, but it is essential we stay on topic.
That was on topic! They all want different things, because they are individuals, just like anyone. They are far more than their sexual identity, as many tend to forget.

My answer to the question is that they all want different things. My answer in not off topic just because I refused to throw out a nasty generalization.
  #21  
Old Feb 22, '12, 3:29 pm
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

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Originally Posted by BlueEyedLady View Post
That was on topic! They all want different things, because they are individuals, just like anyone. They are far more than their sexual identity, as many tend to forget.
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Originally Posted by yogicat View Post
I think that it must vary among homosexuals, but I think they just want to be normal. They want to have a wedding, wear wedding rings, go on a honeymoon, and form a bond for life. Many of them probably want children as well, to be members of the PTA and to volunteer as chaperons at the prom when their kids are in high school. They can already do all of these things - but without societal approval or more importantly, government approval. This is what I believe they want - equality. They just don't see the things they do as sin.
As a celibate homosexual I have things I want. I want to be regarded as a full member of the parish I am in and the opportunity to be considered for the same positions and responsibilities as everyone else (excluding the priesthood obviously). Father James Martin S.J. sounds off on this perfectly here.

I also want to be included in society without stigma, question, or discrimination (no I do not want to get married or have sex). Catholics especially should be sensitive to my needs and questions as I am not only defying the expectations from the gay community to be faithful to the Church and but to my family who are liberal Episcopalians and frown on me joining the Catholic Church and becoming celibate.

I don't want people to make snide remarks or gossip about my sexual identity I want to be included in their circles as a "normal" human being who has worth, dignity, and value. Do I have "disordered tendencies?" Yes but unless I'm doing something contrary to Church teaching no layman has the right to treat me differently or group me in some category that discards my human value.

So yes despite the fact that I am a rather forward celibate homosexual you still have to accept me for who I am and show the same love due to a fellow Christian.

As I promise to strive to love those who defy my expectations as well!
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  #22  
Old Feb 22, '12, 3:48 pm
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

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Originally Posted by mitex View Post
As a celibate homosexual I have things I want. I want to be regarded as a full member of the parish I am in and the opportunity to be considered for the same positions and responsibilities as everyone else (excluding the priesthood obviously). Father James Martin S.J. sounds off on this perfectly here.

I also want to be included in society without stigma, question, or discrimination (no I do not want to get married or have sex). Catholics especially should be sensitive to my needs and questions as I am not only defying the expectations from the gay community to be faithful to the Church and but to my family who are liberal Episcopalians and frown on me joining the Catholic Church and becoming celibate.

I don't want people to make snide remarks or gossip about my sexual identity I want to be included in their circles as a "normal" human being who has worth, dignity, and value. Do I have "disordered tendencies?" Yes but unless I'm doing something contrary to Church teaching no layman has the right to treat me differently or group me in some category that discards my human value.

So yes despite the fact that I am a rather forward celibate homosexual you still have to accept me for who I am and show the same love due to a fellow Christian.

As I promise to strive to love those who defy my expectations as well!
So, when you walk into your local parish hall, or into Church, are you being discriminated against? What's stopping you from walking into your local parish and making friends with everyone? I can walk into a parish hall, even one not my own and shake hands and be friendly. Why can't you?

Unless, of course, you walk in with a big sign around your neck which says "Hey everyone, I'm a celibate gay!", no one will know your gay and I doubt that anyone will shake your hand and ask "Are you gay?". So, again I ask, what's the problem?
  #23  
Old Feb 22, '12, 4:02 pm
mitex mitex is offline
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

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Originally Posted by John21652 View Post
So, when you walk into your local parish hall, or into Church, are you being discriminated against? What's stopping you from walking into your local parish and making friends with everyone? I can walk into a parish hall, even one not my own and shake hands and be friendly. Why can't you?

Unless, of course, you walk in with a big sign around your neck which says "Hey everyone, I'm a celibate gay!", no one will know your gay and I doubt that anyone will shake your hand and ask "Are you gay?". So, again I ask, what's the problem?
No I don't walk into Church like that lol. I just want to make it a safer environment for people like me.

And I am friendly.
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  #24  
Old Feb 22, '12, 4:29 pm
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

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Originally Posted by mitex View Post
No I don't walk into Church like that lol. I just want to make it a safer environment for people like me.

And I am friendly.
OK, you want to make a Church a safer environment for someone like you.

The logical inference to be made from what you write is that a Church is not a safe environment for someone like you.

Now, please explain why a Church isn't a safe environment for someone like you.
  #25  
Old Feb 22, '12, 4:36 pm
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

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Originally Posted by John21652 View Post
OK, you want to make a Church a safer environment for someone like you.

The logical inference to be made from what you write is that a Church is not a safe environment for someone like you.

Now, please explain why a Church isn't a safe environment for someone like you.
There's still a stigma. It depends on each parish really because they're all in different areas of course and have different demographics.

For example the diocese wanted to use our parish facilities for the HIV/AIDs and Courage Apostolate ministries. The Parish Council had a fit.

Now I don't necessarily agree with everything Courage says but it when the very Church approved ministry for those who are homosexuals can't even get space it begs one to wonder whether there is a welcoming environment.

And bullying can be tackled at the Catholic high schools.

Personally I think what needs to be done is an education program on what homosexuality is and what it isn't. And there's no uniform approach on how to proceed with that and its inhibited the Evangelization and rehabilitation of homosexuals.
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  #26  
Old Feb 22, '12, 4:51 pm
John21652 John21652 is offline
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitex View Post
There's still a stigma. It depends on each parish really because they're all in different areas of course and have different demographics.

For example the diocese wanted to use our parish facilities for the HIV/AIDs and Courage Apostolate ministries. The Parish Council had a fit.

Now I don't necessarily agree with everything Courage says but it when the very Church approved ministry for those who are homosexuals can't even get space it begs one to wonder whether there is a welcoming environment.

And bullying can be tackled at the Catholic high schools.

Personally I think what needs to be done is an education program on what homosexuality is and what it isn't. And there's no uniform approach on how to proceed with that and its inhibited the Evangelization and rehabilitation of homosexuals.
You didn't answer my questions.

You wrote you want to make the Church to be a safer environment for people like you.

I asked you how it is that the Church is not a safe environment for someone like you.

You answered "there's still a stigma". So, where does the stigma come from? I ask again, do you wear a sign around your neck announcing that your gay? If so, I think the stigma is probably against anyone who goes to Church wearing a sign around their neck. Let's face it, going to Church with a sign around your neck is pretty weird! If you don't truly wear a sign around your neck, then where does the stigma come from? And, if someone is stigmatised, how does this make going to Church unsafe?

Now, please, answer the questions. One by one would be good.
  #27  
Old Feb 22, '12, 5:00 pm
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitex View Post
As a celibate homosexual I have things I want. I want to be regarded as a full member of the parish I am in and the opportunity to be considered for the same positions and responsibilities as everyone else (excluding the priesthood obviously). Father James Martin S.J. sounds off on this perfectly here.

I also want to be included in society without stigma, question, or discrimination (no I do not want to get married or have sex). Catholics especially should be sensitive to my needs and questions as I am not only defying the expectations from the gay community to be faithful to the Church and but to my family who are liberal Episcopalians and frown on me joining the Catholic Church and becoming celibate.

I don't want people to make snide remarks or gossip about my sexual identity I want to be included in their circles as a "normal" human being who has worth, dignity, and value. Do I have "disordered tendencies?" Yes but unless I'm doing something contrary to Church teaching no layman has the right to treat me differently or group me in some category that discards my human value.

So yes despite the fact that I am a rather forward celibate homosexual you still have to accept me for who I am and show the same love due to a fellow Christian.

As I promise to strive to love those who defy my expectations as well!

I was referring myself to the homosexuals who embrace the "pride" culture. You though aren't a part of that, you're a person with the proper understanding of sexuality.
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  #28  
Old Feb 22, '12, 5:21 pm
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

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Originally Posted by LoyalViews View Post

I was referring myself to the homosexuals who embrace the "pride" culture. You though aren't a part of that, you're a person with the proper understanding of sexuality.
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  #29  
Old Feb 22, '12, 5:24 pm
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

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Originally Posted by John21652 View Post
You didn't answer my questions.

You wrote you want to make the Church to be a safer environment for people like you.

I asked you how it is that the Church is not a safe environment for someone like you.

You answered "there's still a stigma". So, where does the stigma come from? I ask again, do you wear a sign around your neck announcing that your gay? If so, I think the stigma is probably against anyone who goes to Church wearing a sign around their neck. Let's face it, going to Church with a sign around your neck is pretty weird! If you don't truly wear a sign around your neck, then where does the stigma come from? And, if someone is stigmatised, how does this make going to Church unsafe?

Now, please, answer the questions. One by one would be good.
It's rather obvious I'm a homosexual/gay/same-sex attracted (to be sensitive to everyone's terms). Let's put it this way. I am stereotypical. Connect the dots from there.

People see me and they like to talk. Although I'm working on trying to overhaul the way I dress, act, and appear in public its very difficult and an expensive process. I have to buy more neutral clothing that is more... Less campy and flashy... I have to change my hairstyle.

I'm a target. So yes I do have a sign in some respects. And that leads to all the problems.
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  #30  
Old Feb 22, '12, 5:29 pm
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Default Re: What is it that homosexuals really want?

Probably individual homosexuals really want to live "normal" lives. However, many of the loudest seem to feel that the only way that can happen is if they legally force everyone to acknowledge their lifestyles as normal, healthy, and moral. They seem to want to silence anyone who disagrees.
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