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  #16  
Old Feb 22, '12, 2:52 am
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Darran Darran is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

I wouldn't imagine so.

Lust, "rush", pride and attention more likely. No lasting love.
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  #17  
Old Feb 22, '12, 3:45 am
John21652 John21652 is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Roberts View Post
The word gay was an epithet applied to homosexuals by heterosexuals, to claim they are hijacking and stealing the term is absurd.
More errant nonsense from you. This has been covered on multiple threads already. Do your homework.

From the Online Etymology Dictionary -
Quote:
...in M.E. it meant "excellent person, noble lady, gallant knight," also "something gay or bright; an ornament or badge" (c.1400).

Slang meaning "homosexual" (adj.) begins to appear in psychological writing late 1940s, evidently picked up from gay slang...

The "Dictionary of American Slang" reports that gay (adj.) was used by homosexuals, among themselves, in this sense since at least 1920.

Gay as a noun meaning "a (usually male) homosexual" is attested from 1971...
Quote:
I was referring to literature and philosophy not mythology..
.Oh, and Greek mythology is not a subject matter in literature and philosophy?

Quote:
Aphrodite Urania represents the more perfect love as she springs purely from the male and thus is free from licentiousness. The love is runs deep and is a connection of the soul in a way, unlike the much baser Aphrodite Pandemos.
Oh my.....
In later Greek mythology, Eros is the son of Aphrodite. I wonder why?

In very early Greek mythology, Eros is a promordial god whom some said was the very first. Obviously, to bring forth life!

Quote:
I sincerely apologize for the poor spelling in my other post, phones aren't the best typing platform
Nor fo doing basic homework, it seems.

The very notion of equating Eros with the sterility of homosexuality in any way, shape, or form is absurd, to say the least.
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  #18  
Old Feb 22, '12, 11:23 am
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iloveangels iloveangels is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Roberts View Post
The word gay was an epithet applied to homosexuals by heterosexuals, to claim they are hijacking and stealing the term is absurd.

I was referring to literature and philosophy not mythology...

Aphrodite Urania represents the more perfect love as she springs purely from the male and thus is free from licentiousness. The love is runs deep and is a connection of the soul in a way, unlike the much baser Aphrodite Pandemos.


I sincerely apologize for the poor spelling in my other post, phones aren't the best typing platform
I don't believe that this is true. The first time I ever heard the word used this way was back around 1970 or so, and it was used by gay people speaking of gay people. In fact, I distinctly remember that there was a period of time when the word retained its normal meanings of "happy and carefree" or "bouquet," while also meaning "homosexual." The general culture reluctantly gave up the normal meanings because they became corrupted by the slang meaning and became an object of ridicule in normal speech. In a way, yes, this word was "hijacked." It's not the only word this has happened to, though.

The same thing happened to a large number of words in the late 20th century. Up until about 1980, people were still calling children Dick, short for Richard. That is now rare for obvious reasons. People up until the mid-to-late 70s were still naming children John, although that is rarer now because it also has a slang meaning. And even if people name their sons John, very few of them call them Jack as a nickname. The word gay underwent the same fate, from normal usage to dual normal-slang usage and then out of existence for anything but the slang usage.

Last edited by iloveangels; Feb 22, '12 at 11:36 am.
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  #19  
Old Feb 22, '12, 11:40 am
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iloveangels iloveangels is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

John,

Homosexuality is, in itself, absurd. That's why it requires so much explanation from people trying to advocate it. They have to argue and argue and argue in order to keep convincing themselves that it's not just plain playing with themselves in the company of others.

Why is it absurd? It's like trying to plug your TV into the kitchen faucet, and then wondering why it doesn't work, that's why. It's an obvious violation of natural law. It's a willful stubbornness about the design of natural law, carried to a ridiculous and contentious extreme.
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  #20  
Old Feb 22, '12, 1:49 pm
Dakota Roberts Dakota Roberts is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John21652 View Post
More errant nonsense from you. This has been covered on multiple threads already. Do your homework.

From the Online Etymology Dictionary -


.Oh, and Greek mythology is not a subject matter in literature and philosophy?


Oh my.....
In later Greek mythology, Eros is the son of Aphrodite. I wonder why?

In very early Greek mythology, Eros is a promordial god whom some said was the very first. Obviously, to bring forth life!

Nor fo doing basic homework, it seems.

The very notion of equating Eros with the sterility of homosexuality in any way, shape, or form is absurd, to say the least.
I use the OED which is far more in-depth and comprehensive

Quote:
Originally Posted by OED
4
a. Wanton, lewd, lascivious. Obs.

b. Originally of persons and later also more widely: dedicated to social pleasures; dissolute, promiscuous; frivolous, hedonistic. Also (esp. in to go gay ): uninhibited; wild, crazy; flamboyant. Cf. Gay Nineties n. at Special uses 2a. Now rare.

d. orig. U.S. slang. (a) Of a person: homosexual; (b) (of a place, milieu, way of life, etc.) of or relating to homosexuals.
an example of 4d, "1941 G. Legman Lang. Homosexuality in G. W. Henry Sex Variants II. 1167 Gay, an adjective used almost exclusively by homosexuals to denote homosexuality, sexual attractiveness, promiscuity‥or lack of restraint, in a person, place, or party. Often given the French spelling, gai or gaie by (or in burlesque of) cultured homosexuals of both sexes."
Compare it to 4b

As you can see there is a large level of overlap between them...


Greek mythology is relevant to a discussion of eros insofar as it is necessary to understand the classical writers.

The older Aphrodite, Aphrodite Ourania (heavenly Aphrodite), the goddess of wisdom is the one who inspires homosexual love whereas the younger, baser Aphrodite born from Zeus and Dione is the one who inspires the love of women.
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  #21  
Old Feb 22, '12, 3:38 pm
John21652 John21652 is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Roberts View Post
I use the OED which is far more in-depth and comprehensive
Oh, is it now, Dakota. Let's have a look and see, shall we?

Here's a link to the OED: Oxford English Dictionary. Now click on that link and see what it says about 'gay'. Here's what it says about 'gay' -
Quote:
gay

Pronunciation: /geɪ/
adjective (gayer, gayest)

1(of a person, especially a man) homosexual.
relating to or used by homosexuals: a gay bar

2 dated light-hearted and carefree: Nan had a gay disposition and a very pretty face

3 dated brightly coloured; showy: a gay profusion of purple and pink sweet peas

4 informal not impressive, stylish, or attractive: he thinks the obsession with celebrity is totally gay

noun

a homosexual, especially a man.

Derivatives

gayness
noun

Origin:

Middle English (in gay (sense 2 of the adjective)): from Old French gai, of unknown origin

Gay meaning ‘homosexual’ became established in the 1960s as the term preferred by homosexual men to describe themselves. It is now the standard accepted term throughout the English-speaking world. As a result, the centuries-old other senses of gay meaning either ‘carefree’ or ‘bright and showy’ have more or less dropped out of natural use. The word gay cannot be readily used today in these older senses without arousing a sense of double entendre, despite concerted attempts by some to keep them alive.Gay in its modern sense typically refers to men (lesbian being the standard term for homosexual women) but in some contexts it can be used of both men and women.
Your reference to the OED because you think it is more "in depth and comprehensive" is to reference a source that totally contradicts what you wrote in post #15, which was -
Quote:
The word gay was an epithet applied to homosexuals by heterosexuals, to claim they are hijacking and stealing the term is absurd.
You are digging a big hole for yourself on this entire issue. Stop denying that the homosexuals themselves hijacked the use of this word, altering it to suit their own political agenda. They have used it to promote a collective identity. The trouble is, all the connotations that go with it are now coming back to bite them on the nether regions. You too, thanks to your own disengenuousness.

Quote:
Greek mythology is relevant to a discussion of eros insofar as it is necessary to understand the classical writers.
Again you have contradicted yourself. After I urged you to get up to speed on classical mythology, in post #15 you responded with this -
Quote:
I was referring to literature and philosophy not mythology
Well, duh, classical literature is full of Greek mythology. It has to be. And you can't study mythology without reading classical literature, philosophy included!


Quote:
The older Aphrodite, Aphrodite Ourania (heavenly Aphrodite), the goddess of wisdom is the one who inspires homosexual love whereas the younger, baser Aphrodite born from Zeus and Dione is the one who inspires the love of women.
More errant nonsense.

The so called "older Aphrodite", the original and pure form of the invocation, was not called "Ourania". That was just one of many localised and cultic invocations of the original. There were dozens of these local cultish invocations of Aphrodite and they all developed later in Greek mythology. If you'd like to read a learned paper on the subject of Aphrodite Ourania, read Aphrodite Ourania of the Bosporus: The Great Goddess of a Frontier Pantheon. Aphrodite Ourania is mostly associated with the Bosporus and 'Ourania' refers to her divinity. Nowhere, in any literature whatsoever, is Aphrodite associated with homosexuality. That notion is a nonsense. Always, in all invocations, she is associated with new life, marriage and love. Never with the inherent sterility of homosexuality. The invocation that might appeal to the gay lobby is Aphrodite Philommedes and even she is associated with wanton and lustful heterosexual procreations.

Give it up. Any association of Eros with homosexual desire is a blatant re-write of ancient history, mythology and scholarship. Eros cannot be disassociated from procreation. Unless, of course, the gays attempt another hijack.
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  #22  
Old Feb 22, '12, 3:50 pm
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iloveangels iloveangels is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Still trying to explain the impossible I see. Give up, it's a lost cause.

Homosexual sex = playing with yourself in the company of others while making up outlandish stories.

Homosexual inclination = being inclined to play with yourself in the company of others while making up outlandish stories.
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  #23  
Old Feb 22, '12, 3:57 pm
mitex mitex is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveangels View Post
Still trying to explain the impossible I see. Give up, it's a lost cause.

Homosexual sex = playing with yourself in the company of others while making up outlandish stories.

Homosexual inclination = being inclined to play with yourself in the company of others while making up outlandish stories.
I object to your harsh descriptions as someone who has a homosexual identity and inclinations.

I am not a liar and I never have been. Not everything about homosexuals revolves around sex.
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  #24  
Old Feb 22, '12, 4:11 pm
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iloveangels iloveangels is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitex View Post
I object to your harsh descriptions as someone who has a homosexual identity and inclinations.

I am not a liar and I never have been. Not everything about homosexuals revolves around sex.
Well that's a first. I've never heard a homosexual admit it before. To listen to them, you'd think it's everything. And I tell you, I know what I'm talking about. I'm related to a couple of people who have their plumbing confused. I have had to lay down the law about what we will talk about in front of children and what we won't. No sex talk or behavior in front of children. Heck, no warped sex talk or behavior in front of me! You'd think they would understand that and not have to be told. My heterosexual relatives all get it, OF COURSE, and didn't have to be told.. It's just plain decency.

I also have relatives that like to drink. They know that they don't come to my house drunk or I'll throw them out. Same, same.
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  #25  
Old Feb 22, '12, 4:28 pm
mitex mitex is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveangels View Post
Well that's a first. I've never heard a homosexual admit it before. To listen to them, you'd think it's everything. And I tell you, I know what I'm talking about. I'm related to a couple of people who have their plumbing confused. I have had to lay down the law about what we will talk about in front of children and what we won't. No sex talk or behavior in front of children. Heck, no warped sex talk or behavior in front of me! You'd think they would understand that and not have to be told. My heterosexual relatives all get it, OF COURSE, and didn't have to be told.. It's just plain decency.

I also have relatives that like to drink. They know that they don't come to my house drunk or I'll throw them out. Same, same.

Straight from the Catechism "They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided."

You are stereotyping me on the basis of something I couldn't help. It's one thing to keep your children out from hearing about sex. Maybe you should join an EnCourage group or a diocese gay and lesbian ministry and you'll see all sorts of celibate homosexuals and ex-homosexuals.

Not exactly sensitive in your statement
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  #26  
Old Feb 22, '12, 4:41 pm
John21652 John21652 is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitex View Post
Straight from the Catechism "They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided."

You are stereotyping me on the basis of something I couldn't help. It's one thing to keep your children out from hearing about sex. Maybe you should join an EnCourage group or a diocese gay and lesbian ministry and you'll see all sorts of celibate homosexuals and ex-homosexuals.

Not exactly sensitive in your statement
mitek, you need to calm down and stop thinking every post is directed at you. Iloveangels was responding to Dakota Roberts and his outlandish stories about Aphrodite and homosexuality. And they are outlandish. Yet you have made the decision, all by yourself, that she is stereotyping you. You are wrong and out of place.

She gave examples of how she has had to admonish homosexuals for the way they have behaved in her home and in front of kids. She has every right to do that. Her doing that in no way contradicts that part of the Catehism you quoted. In fact, she is obliged to remonstrate with them if they are putting the moral training of children at risk.

Now you are always using your own personal experiences to make judgements. Are you not? I believe that on another thread, someone even bought that habit to your attention. Yet here you are denouncing someone for doing exactly what you do, which is using your own experiences to form judgements. That is a double standard, because you want to be allowed to do it, but you don't want anyone else to do it.

Now please get over this and apologise to Iloveangels for misreading and misinterpreting what she wrote and to whom it was directed.
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  #27  
Old Feb 22, '12, 4:47 pm
Dakota Roberts Dakota Roberts is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John21652 View Post
Oh, is it now, Dakota. Let's have a look and see, shall we?

Here's a link to the OED: Oxford English Dictionary. Now click on that link and see what it says about 'gay'. Here's what it says about 'gay' -


Your reference to the OED because you think it is more "in depth and comprehensive" is to reference a source that totally contradicts what you wrote in post #15, which was -


You are digging a big hole for yourself on this entire issue. Stop denying that the homosexuals themselves hijacked the use of this word, altering it to suit their own political agenda. They have used it to promote a collective identity. The trouble is, all the connotations that go with it are now coming back to bite them on the nether regions. You too, thanks to your own disengenuousness.

Again you have contradicted yourself. After I urged you to get up to speed on classical mythology, in post #15 you responded with this -
Well, duh, classical literature is full of Greek mythology. It has to be. And you can't study mythology without reading classical literature, philosophy included!


More errant nonsense.

The so called "older Aphrodite", the original and pure form of the invocation, was not called "Ourania". That was just one of many localised and cultic invocations of the original. There were dozens of these local cultish invocations of Aphrodite and they all developed later in Greek mythology. If you'd like to read a learned paper on the subject of Aphrodite Ourania, read Aphrodite Ourania of the Bosporus: The Great Goddess of a Frontier Pantheon. Aphrodite Ourania is mostly associated with the Bosporus and 'Ourania' refers to her divinity. Nowhere, in any literature whatsoever, is Aphrodite associated with homosexuality. That notion is a nonsense. Always, in all invocations, she is associated with new life, marriage and love. Never with the inherent sterility of homosexuality. The invocation that might appeal to the gay lobby is Aphrodite Philommedes and even she is associated with wanton and lustful heterosexual procreations.

Give it up. Any association of Eros with homosexual desire is a blatant re-write of ancient history, mythology and scholarship. Eros cannot be disassociated from procreation. Unless, of course, the gays attempt another hijack.
actually The Oxford English Dictionary uses a different site, it is accessed through oed.com. you are forgiven if that was a simple mistake.

I'll reply to the rest later (heading out for Mass)
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  #28  
Old Feb 22, '12, 4:48 pm
mitex mitex is offline
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John21652 View Post
mitek, you need to calm down and stop thinking every post is directed at you. Iloveangels was responding to Dakota Roberts and his outlandish stories about Aphrodite and homosexuality. And they are outlandish. Yet you have made the decision, all by yourself, that she is stereotyping you. You are wrong and out of place.

She gave examples of how she has had to admonish homosexuals for the way they have behaved in her home and in front of kids. She has every right to do that. Her doing that in no way contradicts that part of the Catehism you quoted. In fact, she is obliged to remonstrate with them if they are putting the moral training of children at risk.

Now you are always using your own personal experiences to make judgements. Are you not? I believe that on another thread, someone even bought that habit to your attention. Yet here you are denouncing someone for doing exactly what you do, which is using your own experiences to form judgements. That is a double standard, because you want to be allowed to do it, but you don't want anyone else to do it.

Now please get over this and apologise to Iloveangels for misreading and misinterpreting what she wrote and to whom it was directed.
Yeah Okay... Sorry...
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  #29  
Old Feb 22, '12, 4:50 pm
Deus_lo_vult Deus_lo_vult is offline
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Post Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John21652 View Post
mitek, you need to calm down and stop thinking every post is directed at you. Iloveangels was responding to Dakota Roberts and his outlandish stories about Aphrodite and homosexuality. And they are outlandish. Yet you have made the decision, all by yourself, that she is stereotyping you. You are wrong and out of place.

She gave examples of how she has had to admonish homosexuals for the way they have behaved in her home and in front of kids. She has every right to do that. Her doing that in no way contradicts that part of the Catehism you quoted. In fact, she is obliged to remonstrate with them if they are putting the moral training of children at risk.

Now you are always using your own personal experiences to make judgements. Are you not? I believe that on another thread, someone even bought that habit to your attention. Yet here you are denouncing someone for doing exactly what you do, which is using your own experiences to form judgements. That is a double standard, because you want to be allowed to do it, but you don't want anyone else to do it.

Now please get over this and apologise to Iloveangels for misreading and misinterpreting what she wrote and to whom it was directed.
John, I agree with everything you said here, but I might add one point: I have lightly criticized iloveangels for the crudeness of her language; it's not always very diplomatic, such as the time I saw her comparing homosexuals to dining room tables...but I don't know, how do you feel about that?
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If it is a de fide teaching, and you realize that, and you persist in your dissent, then you place yourself outside the Church (excommunication). Therefore, you are no longer a Catholic.
I've made this point before.
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  #30  
Old Feb 22, '12, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: Can Homesexual "Marriages" have Eros Love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Roberts View Post
actually The Oxford English Dictionary uses a different site, it is accessed through oed.com. you are forgiven if that was a simple mistake.
This attempt at splitting hairs wont help you. Both sites are owned and operated by Oxford University Press. The oed.com site is for paid subscriptions, or for use through paying institutions. The other is for open online use. They are the same thing and use the same sources. Hence, you cannot challenge the definitions I gave. Yours, however, are refuted.

Quote:
I'll reply to the rest later (heading out for Mass)
Don't bother. You are buried up to your neck already. Any deeper and you'll smother.
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