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  #31  
Old Feb 24, '12, 12:59 pm
adoglover1956 adoglover1956 is offline
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcointin View Post
We have no official view of them. Since they're outside of our tradition and experience, we can't judge them. People are free to believe them or not. We would however caution against any vision as a possible spiritual delusion, and advise one discuss the experience with an experienced spiritual father. Personally I'm open minded to them but haven't done much reading on the subject.
Thank you dcointin. From what I've read that seems to be the general response.
  #32  
Old Feb 24, '12, 10:24 pm
ChrisRedfield47 ChrisRedfield47 is offline
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

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Originally Posted by Marybeloved View Post
Really? My understanding of the matter is that every time the Bishops order them (the visionaries) not to continue the activities there, they are answered with defiance and disobedience.
Yes Really. Disobedience from Bishops does not make an apparition a lie/deception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adoglover1956 View Post
The priest who defended these apparitions has left the Church and is now married. The local bishop was condemned by apparition for interergaing him on accusations that were made against him dealing with the subject. He denied them at the time. The apparition also condemned the local bishop for requiring obediance to him. The Virgin Mary always had endorsed unequivacibly obediance. This apparition has encouraged the opposite. Satanic.

Truth: parish priests are directed by the vatican and local bishops that pilgrimages to Med are not allowed. Once again there are priests in disobediance. Just what Satan wants.

The seers have been caught in so many lies it's not funny. You may believe in this garbage but it is just that SATANIC. I have the Church on my side.
Firstly, Im not devout to Med. Im devout to Our Lady of Guadalupe and of Fatima (approved apparitions). To me it makes no difference if the apparition is approved or Rejected there. So no I dont believe in the apparition there, because im not required to believe in it. Im not Required to believe in Guadalupe or Fatima either, but I do knowingly they are approved.

Second, behaviour of priests and bishops does not make an apparition a lie. Međugorje has become one of the most popular pilgrimage sites for Catholics in the world and has turned into Europe's third most important religious place, where each year more than 1 million people visit. All im stating, and which shouldn't generate more comments really, is that there is no official approval or rejection from the Church.

Third. The Roman Catholic Church has prudently been cautious to approve, disapprove or condemn reported apparitions." In general, studied apparitions are classed as "not worthy of belief," "not contrary to the Faith," or "worthy of belief." The message of an approved apparition cannot have any content that is contrary to the teachings of the Church. The Church has not declared Med to be "not worthy of belief", at least not yet.

Go to this Link:
http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/resources/aprtable.html

It classifies the apparitions of the 20th century according to our Church. This site classifies them as follows:

"The Mary Page's Classification

On our Web site's apparition directory, the column titled "Approval of Supernatural Character" is marked either "yes," "negative decision," or "no decision" depending upon what action the local bishop has taken for the specific apparition. A "yes" denotes that the bishop has concluded the apparition's character is supernatural. A "negative" decision denotes that there is some problem which the bishop has identified in the apparition and concluded that it does not have a supernatural character. A "no decision" is used to denote one of two possibilities. In one scenario, the bishop is either studying the case or he has studied the case, but the decision cannot be made until further analysis is completed. A second possibility, is that the Church has never begun to study the reported apparition."

If you go to the list there, you would see that there is "no final decision" taken on Medjugorje's case. This is all im stating. Nothing less, nothing more. Not a "Yes", Not a "No". If the Church has not filed a final decision yet, we cannot have assurance that Med's apparition is a lie/deception, or to be worthy of belief.

Im not defending Med's case, certainly I am informed of strange things concerning this apparition. All im saying is wait for the Church's final veridict. If it never comes, In any case, ad if you 2 (Marybeloved and adoglover) find it a deception/lie etc, simply do not believe in it. I think debating of an unapproved apparition is quite unreasonable.
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  #33  
Old Feb 25, '12, 12:57 am
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRedfield47 View Post
Yes Really. Disobedience from Bishops does not make an apparition a lie/deception.
Yes, it does. Or has the Church been foolish to use this as a test to judge evil/false apparitions from truth? Disobedience to the Church is NOT from heaven, Our Lady or any Saint. And what do you mean no judgements about them have been made by the Church? Two Bishops, the first and his successor who have the authority to decide on the authenticity of these apparitions both rejected them after investigations. The Med apparition has been condemned by its Bishop. And Yes, it contains false messages- The Mother of God would never in a million years require the visionary to disobey the Divinely appointed authority in the Church over that matter. If you believe in it- that's your business. But I choose to stick to the Church speaking in the voice of the Bishop (Two, in fact!)

Peace.
  #34  
Old Feb 25, '12, 3:37 am
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcointin View Post
We have no official view of them. Since they're outside of our tradition and experience, we can't judge them.
My brother in Christ

Locutions, visitations, apparitions..........MIRACLES of GOD are outside your Tradition? that is FALSE, however, yes, as to your experience I will agree with you.

Seems to be the fundemental issue with this thread. Orthodox are unable to communicate about something they do not investigate today, thus as you stated with the "we" comment ...............Outside "our" experience, we "can't" judge them! Correct!

TRADITION? Outside of what tradition, Antioch/Maronite? Christianity


Dreams, Apparitions. Locutions and Miracles of the Holy people are "not" new. Samuel appeared to the medium of Endor and spoke with Saul. (1 Samuel 28:7-19) Moses and Elijah appeared to the Apostles Peter, James and John. (Matthew 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30) Onias and Jeremiah appeared to Judas Maccabeus in a vision. (2 Maccabees 15:12-16) So, it certainly would not be out of character for God to allow Mary to appear to someone. And it just continues on and on Biblically and Historically.

Appoved Marian apparitions are of GOD and always bring believers closer to the Most Holy Trinity. That is clearly not something a demonic presence would do. Whatever happened in the world as to St Mary of recent in regards to the CC? The Vatican/Church is "silent" on, the last investigated, approved "MIRACLE" by GOD was Fatima, almost 100-years ago.

The fact the Orthodox Church have no set means to investigate has absolutely NOTHING to do with Gods "DAILY" miracles. And by large this no different in the CC. However they DO happen DAILY. No secret here, one only need to be reminded of the EUCHARIST!

The fact the CC actually does investigate really isn't of issue of this thread. The ORTHODOX CHURCH is the OP of this thread I assure you if Millions started appearing at a sight of the EO due to St Mary thus GOD...YOU would investigate it. Simple logic would be the welfare of the faithful, and the importance as to Gods revelation to mankind.


Christianity in Lebanon has a long and continuous history beginning with the visits of Jesus to the southern territories, where he is said to have performed many miraculous healings. And yes he "still" does this daily. And if Christ so desires to have His Mother acknowledged in His Chrurch, perhaps Christianity should actually listen.

Of the 295 reported apparitions studied by the Pontifical Institute in Rome, the Holy See through the centuries has only approved 12.

"Personally I'm open minded to them but haven't done much reading on the subject."





Peace
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  #35  
Old Feb 25, '12, 3:45 am
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

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Originally Posted by Marybeloved View Post
Disobedience to the Church is NOT from heaven, Peace.
Amen!!
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"Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the Masses said throughout the world today, for all the Holy Souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen." St. Gertrude
  #36  
Old Feb 25, '12, 4:07 am
Mark of Ephesus Mark of Ephesus is offline
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

In response to the OP, I present a very detailed Orthodox response to the various apparitions (both Catholic and Coptic) . Be warned, however, it is a bit lengthy.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/ma...paritions.aspx
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  #37  
Old Feb 25, '12, 6:50 am
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

Miriam Lambouras

UFOs? Seriously, is the best you can come up with??? Nothing like Fast Google sights.


The little Green Men are converting humans to CHRIST
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"Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the Masses said throughout the world today, for all the Holy Souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen." St. Gertrude
  #38  
Old Feb 25, '12, 7:07 am
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

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Originally Posted by GaryTaylor View Post
Miriam Lambouras

UFOs? Seriously, is the best you can come up with??? Nothing like Fast Google sights.


The little Green Men are converting humans to CHRIST
What about UFOs?
  #39  
Old Feb 25, '12, 7:17 am
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

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Originally Posted by Marybeloved View Post
What about UFOs?
"Had it not been for the striking similarity between the descriptions of the Zeitoun solar phenomena and the earlier descriptions of UFOs, I would have found this group of witnesses solid and impressive, although it would still have been difficult to see why the Virgin should appear in this public way to all and sundry,"

From the above article.
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"Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the Masses said throughout the world today, for all the Holy Souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen." St. Gertrude
  #40  
Old Feb 25, '12, 7:37 am
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

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Originally Posted by GaryTaylor View Post
"Had it not been for the striking similarity between the descriptions of the Zeitoun solar phenomena and the earlier descriptions of UFOs, I would have found this group of witnesses solid and impressive, although it would still have been difficult to see why the Virgin should appear in this public way to all and sundry,"

From the above article.
Wow, just wow. Glided over the St. Francis article there. Apparently he was never actually truly humble, nor a genuine mystic- I think intolerance is the least offensive description that can be made of that site as a whole. But I think it's not true or right to call it "an Orthodox response" as it was called earlier. It's a bunch of writings by a lay woman who converted from Anglicanism. She cites no authoritative Orthodox proclamations. Her underlying attitude seems to be that the Mother of God could never visit any church that was not an Eastern Orthodox one (hence the UFO comment about Zeitoun), and that no Saint can exist in other churches either.
  #41  
Old Feb 25, '12, 8:00 am
adoglover1956 adoglover1956 is offline
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRedfield47 View Post
Yes Really. Disobedience from Bishops does not make an apparition a lie/deception.



Firstly, Im not devout to Med. Im devout to Our Lady of Guadalupe and of Fatima (approved apparitions). To me it makes no difference if the apparition is approved or Rejected there. So no I dont believe in the apparition there, because im not required to believe in it. Im not Required to believe in Guadalupe or Fatima either, but I do knowingly they are approved.

Second, behaviour of priests and bishops does not make an apparition a lie. Međugorje has become one of the most popular pilgrimage sites for Catholics in the world and has turned into Europe's third most important religious place, where each year more than 1 million people visit. All im stating, and which shouldn't generate more comments really, is that there is no official approval or rejection from the Church.

Third. The Roman Catholic Church has prudently been cautious to approve, disapprove or condemn reported apparitions." In general, studied apparitions are classed as "not worthy of belief," "not contrary to the Faith," or "worthy of belief." The message of an approved apparition cannot have any content that is contrary to the teachings of the Church. The Church has not declared Med to be "not worthy of belief", at least not yet.

Go to this Link:
http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/resources/aprtable.html

It classifies the apparitions of the 20th century according to our Church. This site classifies them as follows:

"The Mary Page's Classification

On our Web site's apparition directory, the column titled "Approval of Supernatural Character" is marked either "yes," "negative decision," or "no decision" depending upon what action the local bishop has taken for the specific apparition. A "yes" denotes that the bishop has concluded the apparition's character is supernatural. A "negative" decision denotes that there is some problem which the bishop has identified in the apparition and concluded that it does not have a supernatural character. A "no decision" is used to denote one of two possibilities. In one scenario, the bishop is either studying the case or he has studied the case, but the decision cannot be made until further analysis is completed. A second possibility, is that the Church has never begun to study the reported apparition."

If you go to the list there, you would see that there is "no final decision" taken on Medjugorje's case. This is all im stating. Nothing less, nothing more. Not a "Yes", Not a "No". If the Church has not filed a final decision yet, we cannot have assurance that Med's apparition is a lie/deception, or to be worthy of belief.

Im not defending Med's case, certainly I am informed of strange things concerning this apparition. All im saying is wait for the Church's final veridict. If it never comes, In any case, ad if you 2 (Marybeloved and adoglover) find it a deception/lie etc, simply do not believe in it. I think debating of an unapproved apparition is quite unreasonable.
The disobedience has been directed by the apparition. The apparition has scolded the local bishop.
  #42  
Old Feb 25, '12, 8:03 am
adoglover1956 adoglover1956 is offline
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

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Originally Posted by Marybeloved View Post
Yes, it does. Or has the Church been foolish to use this as a test to judge evil/false apparitions from truth? Disobedience to the Church is NOT from heaven, Our Lady or any Saint. And what do you mean no judgements about them have been made by the Church? Two Bishops, the first and his successor who have the authority to decide on the authenticity of these apparitions both rejected them after investigations. The Med apparition has been condemned by its Bishop. And Yes, it contains false messages- The Mother of God would never in a million years require the visionary to disobey the Divinely appointed authority in the Church over that matter. If you believe in it- that's your business. But I choose to stick to the Church speaking in the voice of the Bishop (Two, in fact!)

Peace.
Apparently the apparition has also told the seers that ALL religions are equal in the eyes of God. That's a killer for me. There is no religion equal to one that has faith in Christ as the Son of God. If there is...then Jesus' passion and resurrection is all for naught.
  #43  
Old Feb 25, '12, 8:07 am
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

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Originally Posted by adoglover1956 View Post
Apparently the apparition has also told the seers that ALL religions are equal in the eyes of God. That's a killer for me. There is no religion equal to one that has faith in Christ as the Son of God. If there is...then Jesus' passion and resurrection is all for naught.
Pretty much
  #44  
Old Feb 25, '12, 8:27 am
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KathleenGee KathleenGee is offline
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

It is sad reading how Orthodox stand against Catholics....and the need for the Latin Church to draw on the disciplines and mysticism of the Orthodox.

I pray for our renewal of unity that we once had.
  #45  
Old Feb 25, '12, 11:56 am
Mark of Ephesus Mark of Ephesus is offline
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Default Re: What are the views of the Holy Orthodox Church on RCC approved Marian Apparitions?

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Originally Posted by GaryTaylor View Post
Miriam Lambouras

UFOs? Seriously, is the best you can come up with??? Nothing like Fast Google sights.


The little Green Men are converting humans to CHRIST
I didn't seen anything in the article about "little green men" or aliens for that matter. A UFO is, by definition, no more than an "unidentified flying object".

Have you read the article?
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