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  #16  
Old Feb 24, '12, 8:36 am
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I just felt compelled to find out what he would look like with a beard.
I had the *exact* same idea to do as you did and I'm glad that you beat me to it! It's a great visual!
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  #17  
Old Feb 24, '12, 9:24 am
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Default Re: ...and even more questions...

A Liturgy Stipend is a payment made for an intention at the Divine Liturgy. Typical Liturgy intentions are for the faithful departed, health and God's blessings for the ill or infirmed, or for the faithful in general. I know in our parish, they were for some time embarrassinging low ($10 for a Divine Liturgy; $5 for a Panachida / Moleben after Divine Liturgy). I believe the Eparchy may have set minimum limits for these Liturgy Stipends.

It is an interesting notion on many counts. Here's an excerpt coming from a Liturgical Committee meeting in the Melkite church:

Quote:
The practice of "Mass Stipends" related to a sum of money is a western usage. The East knows the gifts: the eucharistic bread with a free gift of money. Many people present the bread at the same Liturgy and the priest commemorates all those who offered their gifts. Thus, to bind the Liturgy to a gift of money is unknown in the Christian East. For this purpose we have the practice to mention many intentions at the same Liturgy. We, in the East, have the practice to present gifts also outside the Divine Liturgy and to remember the people's intentions during the Paraclesis, the Blessing of Oil, Vespers or during the Blessing of Water. In this vein we can mention the Presanctified Liturgy. We ask the Holy Synod to give a clear teaching about "Mass stipends" in the Eastern Churches and an explanation to the faithful of the Western Church, who intend to give stipends to priests from the Eastern Church. We propose that the priest takes one Liturgy stipend during the day and if he receives more, he may put them in the gift box, give them to the poor or add them to the gifts for parochial projects. The new Eastern Canon Law, published in 1991, allows us to take a stipend for the Presanctified Liturgy.
Let me translate a bit - a Liturgy Stipend in Eastern tradition is actually paid to the priest. As noted above, "to bind the Liturgy to a gift of money is unknown in the Christian East ". To have the stipend go to the Church would be to bind the Liturgy to money (the gifts generally given by all, absent an intention, do not bind as they are voluntary).

Yet, the practice continues, and I am surprised (for the reasons alluded to above) that the Eparchy might get involved in setting standards for such, but not entirely so. It could also be that the mission church, which is dependent on multiple sources for support, might have asked the Eparchy for guidance. If the mission is served by a bi-ritual priest, there may be other considerations, as well.

You will note that there is an expectation that a priest would not accept more than one stipend per day and, if so, he would give the "excess" (from bination, in the case of two liturgical intentions) to charity or back to the parish. In this way, it becomes a personal, separate donation from the priest. For many years in the Eparchy of Passaic, binations were reserved for support of the seminary.

I always hate getting into these things, because many would like to argue that the Church has become a business in some respects. However, among the faithful, its easy to see otherwise. We should never ask more of the Church than we give of ourselves. The Liturgy is for everyone, by its nature. If we ask a private intention in the Liturgy, whether the money goes to the priest or elsewhere, remember that you are supporting your Church nonetheless with this stipend.

Oh wow! Post 1,000! But no balloons?
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  #18  
Old Feb 24, '12, 9:44 am
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Congratulations, Byz!
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Old Feb 24, '12, 9:46 am
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Congratulations, Byz!
That was precious! Thank Miserissima! Hope you and baby are doing well today!
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  #20  
Old Feb 24, '12, 9:50 am
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Byz: I didn't meant to get into the seedy perspective of "just remuneration," and thank you for looking that up for me. I need to remember that stipends are always a gift and not a price.
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  #21  
Old Feb 24, '12, 10:50 am
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Byz: I didn't meant to get into the seedy perspective of "just remuneration," and thank you for looking that up for me. I need to remember that stipends are always a gift and not a price.
No worries! There was a lesson in Eastern thought in it, and it was a good review / reflection for me as well.

It also prompted me to pull up and read the bulletin from the mission parish - a very nice read, I must say, packed with so much more than the weekly announcements. I enjoyed reading it, and now sorry I'm not a little closer ...
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  #22  
Old Feb 24, '12, 11:08 am
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I enjoyed reading it, and now sorry I'm not a little closer ...
Aww...where are you, instead?
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  #23  
Old Feb 24, '12, 11:37 am
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Aww...where are you, instead?
NYC metro area (a displaced Pennsylvanian now in NY)

My wife went to law school in Baltimore, and I was in the defense industry for many years, so I know your area pretty well (as well as the locale of the mission).
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  #24  
Old Feb 24, '12, 11:39 am
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I'm a Yankee in DC. When we retire, I'm going to get a little house in New England with no basement, no stairs, and my closest neighbor will be at least 12 miles awway. LOL!

I was wondering iof you had time this weekend to tell me a little about what RC saints the Byzantine Catholics recognize, and vice versa.
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  #25  
Old Feb 24, '12, 12:37 pm
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I'm a Yankee in DC. When we retire, I'm going to get a little house in New England with no basement, no stairs, and my closest neighbor will be at least 12 miles awway. LOL!

I was wondering iof you had time this weekend to tell me a little about what RC saints the Byzantine Catholics recognize, and vice versa.
As Catholics, we recognize all RC saints. That's a privilege that comes with membership!

Yet we also recognize saints that were canonized in Orthodoxy before our Churches reunited with Rome.

A notable example, a week from this Sunday (Second Sunday of Great Lent), we commemorate St. Gregory Palamas. He lived from 12961359, and was canonized by the Orthodox Church in 1368 (all after the "Great Divide" of 1054).

While we may not recognize, formally, saints canonized by the Orthodox Churches following our reunion with Rome, it is long held custom to venerate saints with whom we feel a spiritual connection. There are many ECs with icons of more modern Orthodox saints, and vice versa. We tend to look to the spiritual merit of the saint as opposed to the Church that canonized the saint.

That said, should the joyful day come when the Apostolic Churches are once again united, this will make for some interesting discussion, but I imagine a similar approach might be taken (as with the EC Churches).
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  #26  
Old Feb 24, '12, 12:51 pm
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I am incredibly relieved as I didn't want to leave my precious St. Teresa of Avila behind. I thought she'd be a good crossover saint since she was a Carmelite, and the Byzantine have a great affection for the Carmelites (and the Desert Fathers and Mothers, as well).

Now, how about the Rosary? Will I need to abandon that? I've read that it's a "Latinization" and should be eschewed even as a private devotion, but as an American I don't think I'm such a purist.

That having been said, I dearly love the Jesus prayer and Our Lady's prominent place in the Divine Liturgy, and perhaps I'm just unwilling to choose between the Dominican Rosary and the Byzantine devotions (most of which I am still learning).
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Old Feb 24, '12, 12:59 pm
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Now, how about the Rosary? Will I need to abandon that? I've read that it's a "Latinization" and should be eschewed even as a private devotion, but as an American I don't think I'm such a purist.
In my current parish and even at the Cathedral parish in Passaic (where I was a parishioner for a number of years), the Rosary is recited every Sunday morning. We are Catholic - we can have both! The only concern from the Eastern side is that Latin devotions completely suppress the Eastern ones.

If you ever have occasion to hear the Akathist Hymn to the Theotokos (sometimes referred to as the "Byzantine Rosary"), you'll know instantly why we would not want to suppress the Eastern devotions.

BTW - the Akathist is to be chanted on the fifth Saturday of Great Lent. I hope they do so at the Mission and you are able to attend (although, if my math is correct, you may have other matters to attend to by that time).
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Old Feb 24, '12, 1:04 pm
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BTW - the Akathist is to be chanted on the fifth Saturday of Great Lent. I hope they do so at the Mission and you are able to attend (although, if my math is correct, you may have other matters to attend to by that time).
From your lips to His ear, friend! We are shooting for April 4th - 10th; you're spot on in your calculations.
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  #29  
Old Feb 24, '12, 1:09 pm
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From your lips to His ear, friend! We are shooting for April 4th - 10th; you're spot on in your calculations.
We pray for God's choicest blessings for your family and the good health and blessed fortune of your children!
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  #30  
Old Feb 24, '12, 3:52 pm
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Originally Posted by Miserissima View Post
Finally, what is a Liturgy Stipend? Is it offered to remember someone during the Divine Liturgy? Is it offered in thanks for performing a Mystery (Baptism / Communion / Chrismation or a wedding)? Is it what we're supposed to put in the collection basket on Sunday?

ByzCathCantor
has done an excellent job of giving you the practice in the Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic Church which it sounds like both of your are worshiping in.

I just would add that this is not the case in other Eastern Catholic Churches, although there may be some besides the Ruthenian/Byzantine CC who have adopted this.

The Divine Liturgy is offered for the Glory of God and His people in all our Churches.
At least in the Orthodox tradition we follow as Russian Greek Catholics it is not 'offered' for the intention of some one. Within the many litanies in the DL are numerous intentions. Our Slav tradition for prayer intentions would be during the Proskomedia which takes place before Divine Liturgy. We write prayer intentions for the living and for the reposed either in a booklet each person may use, or on slips of paper provided. You place a prosphora with the booklet or papers on the tray for that purpose and the priest or deacon retrieves these after their vesting prayers for use in the Liturgy of Preparation. It is typical that one is "asked" to contribute $1. for this, similar to the contribution one makes for the candles one places at icons. You can read about the prayers which are offered for the living and the reposed in this way. These names are often also intoned by the priest or deacon during the DL in the litanies when we pray for the reposed, etc. Apart from the $1. for the prosphora there is no money involved, and I'm sure that there are times when no dollar is given with the prosphora and prayer slip. No one is there to check. It's all done on the "honor system".

The Proskomedia/Liturgy of Preparation itself as described in the links given is done in a similar way in the Byzantine/Ruthenian Church. I assumed there are also written prayer requests parishioners fill out, tho not individual prosphora in that tradition.

We do have the Panikhida service for the reposed celebrated attached at the conclusion of DL, or separately. The Russian Orthodox Cathedral up the street from us celebrates a Moleban every Saturday at the relics of St. John Maximovitch during which hundreds of prayer intentions are silently read by a number of clergy. When we have a special intention often our parishioners will go to that or submit the names here. Like the Panikhida the Moleban service is not a liturgy but is another service where special intentions are brought in prayer. There is no money expected for that, as is apparent on the Cathedral website. I have known family in my parish to place money into the collection box or hand it to the priests in an envelope. (Likewise when we have had Holy Unction services for gravely ill parishioners.) This goes directly into the parish collection.

I'm offering this to indicated there are differences in how things are done. The quote from the Melkite's ByzCathCantor provided describes this "Mass Stipends" as a western usage and says the recent CCEO canon law for the Eastern Churches allows it. Many see the CCEO canons has heavily latinized.

Some Churches will have incorporated more of the traditions of the Latin Church. There are many reasons for this and I am not here to criticize these practices. My parish has kept close to the Orthodox way. Many of our parishioners also attend Mass in the Latin Church and happily engage in practices there which would not be appropriate in our temple. I am quite fond of the Stations of the Cross during Lent. Unfortunately the Stations are done in my Latin parish Friday nights when I'm at Liturgy of the Pre-Sanctified Gifts. Tonight I would noramlly be able to go, since our Great Lent hasn't yet begun, but the Latin parish is having a retreat tonight instead of the Stations.
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