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  #31  
Old Feb 24, '12, 4:15 pm
5Loaves 5Loaves is offline
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Default Re: ...and even more questions...

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Originally Posted by Miserissima View Post

I was wondering iof you had time this weekend to tell me a little about what RC saints the Byzantine Catholics recognize, and vice versa.
Again, a difference from what ByzCathCantor has shared for the Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic Church. My parish follows the Orthodox typikon. We use the calendar and the prayers of the OCA. So we do not commemorate any contemporary saints of the West. We do, however, have an icon of St. Thérèse of Lisieux on our iconostasis. She is the only western saint in our temple, in our building. She is there because our icon screen was modeled after the iconostasis in the Russicum seminarian's chapel. (The reason for her presence there is explained here.) Many or most of the priests who served the Russian Greek Catholic Church were trained at the Russicum.

This doesn't mean there could be no reference to a Western saint. I have heard Father in the OCA parish speak (positively) of a western saint in his homily and at other times. But we follow the calendar of the East for our commemorations, which means the Holy Icon we venerate that day, the Kontakion and the Troparion reflect these.


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Originally Posted by Miserissima View Post
Now, how about the Rosary? Will I need to abandon that? I've read that it's a "Latinization" and should be eschewed even as a private devotion, but as an American I don't think I'm such a purist.
Praying the Rosary aloud in our temple would be considered quite out of place, as would be for example kneeling on a Sunday. These are foreign to us, at least in that context. As a private devotion it would of course be fine, though I've never seen anyone praying the Rosary in the temple.

Orthodoxy however, unlike America, is concerned with a kind of purity-- orthos ("right", "true", "straight") + doxa ("opinion" or "belief", related to dokein, "to think"). The desire is to remain true to one's own patrimony. There are many reasons why praxis of the Latin Church crept into Eastern Catholic Churches. These practices helped the faithful during times of hideous persecution. However what is only say two generations in use, gets now called "tradition". Add to that Latin Catholics who love our liturgy and want to keep up what they are familiar with, within a Church they are unfamiliar with but attracted to. Please don't be offended, but for many of us these innovations are just as distressing for us as the things which many in the Latin Church now find offensive in the innovations of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite.

Understand that the Greeks consider our "traditional" Russian liturgical music to be a modern innovation and think we have strayed in not using traditional Byzantine chant.

Last edited by 5Loaves; Feb 24, '12 at 4:30 pm.
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  #32  
Old Feb 24, '12, 4:17 pm
5Loaves 5Loaves is offline
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Default Re: ...and even more questions...

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Congratulations, Byz!
I seem to have missed out on something significant...
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  #33  
Old Feb 24, '12, 4:19 pm
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karaleigh karaleigh is offline
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Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor View Post
The key features of a Byzantine Catholic church are graphically represented and explained in some detail here, courtesy of St. Thomas the Apostle BCC, Rahway, NJ. Click on any one of the three-bar crosses for further details.
Though not completely sure if all Byzantine Catholic Church have BibleStudies/SundaySchool, but the one in Anchorage, AK has a summer session ever now and then. The staff teach the bible from the Byzantine point of view. It's great to see them come outside at times. They really like to live close to home. You might check into if your's has something like what they have in Alaska.

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  #34  
Old Feb 24, '12, 7:26 pm
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ByzCathCantor ByzCathCantor is offline
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I seem to have missed out on something significant...
Nah, just hit my 1,000th post here, and we had some fun with that!
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  #35  
Old Feb 24, '12, 7:28 pm
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ByzCathCantor ByzCathCantor is offline
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You might check into if your's has something like what they have in Alaska.
Boy karaleigh - you've proven that you can fit an onion dome on just about any type of building!

BTW - I think I found my preferred summer retreat spot ...

Thanks for the post!
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  #36  
Old Feb 25, '12, 10:43 am
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karaleigh karaleigh is offline
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Boy karaleigh - you've proven that you can fit an onion dome on just about any type of building!

BTW - I think I found my preferred summer retreat spot ...

Thanks for the post!
You will love it there. So beautiful with clean, flesh air. Though the photo doesn't show the area, the church is almost in downtown Anchorage. Bless you for seeing beauty in a wooden church building w/ a golden onion dome.
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  #37  
Old Feb 25, '12, 1:16 pm
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ByzCathCantor ByzCathCantor is offline
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You will love it there. So beautiful with clean, flesh air. Though the photo doesn't show the area, the church is almost in downtown Anchorage. Bless you for seeing beauty in a wooden church building w/ a golden onion dome.
I come from the land of wooden churches:



Here's a very good article and webpage of the wooden churches of Carpatho-Rus.

http://rdsa.tripod.com/cerkwood1a.htm

Enjoy!
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  #38  
Old Feb 25, '12, 3:23 pm
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Vico Vico is offline
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Default Re: ...and even more questions...

It seems that one can never have too many domes:

Church of Transfiguration on Lake Onega (Kishi Island) in the Republic of Karelia, Russia (built without nails)

Kit:
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  #39  
Old Feb 25, '12, 4:01 pm
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ByzCathCantor ByzCathCantor is offline
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It seems that one can never have too many domes: Church of Transfiguration on Lake Onega (Kishi Island) in the Republic of Karelia, Russia (built without nails)
Amazing! Great post!
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  #40  
Old Feb 26, '12, 1:46 pm
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karaleigh karaleigh is offline
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Default Re: ...and even more questions...

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Originally Posted by Vico View Post
It seems that one can never have too many domes:

Church of Transfiguration on Lake Onega (Kishi Island) in the Republic of Karelia, Russia (built without nails)

Kit:
Incredible...what a wonder!
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  #41  
Old Feb 28, '12, 9:43 am
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Miserissima Miserissima is offline
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Originally Posted by 5Loaves View Post
Orthodoxy however, unlike America, is concerned with a kind of purity-- orthos ("right", "true", "straight") + doxa ("opinion" or "belief", related to dokein, "to think"). The desire is to remain true to one's own patrimony. There are many reasons why praxis of the Latin Church crept into Eastern Catholic Churches. These practices helped the faithful during times of hideous persecution. However what is only say two generations in use, gets now called "tradition". Add to that Latin Catholics who love our liturgy and want to keep up what they are familiar with, within a Church they are unfamiliar with but attracted to. Please don't be offended, but for many of us these innovations are just as distressing for us as the things which many in the Latin Church now find offensive in the innovations of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite.
No offense taken. I recall the concersations I had with my fahter -- he was OCA; my mother was Latin Rite.

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Originally Posted by 5Loaves View Post
As to people standing with votive candle holders, I am clueless. Maybe as you indicate it has something to do with making do with a borrowed space. Please go back for another DL, ask them, and come back and tell us.
I asked and regret that I didn't bring a notebook.

I was informed that the three-armed votive holder was brought before the altar three times during the Divine Liturgy, once before the Epistle (and the other two times I do not remember). It was only to bring attention to the sanctuary that something solemn is happening, and not all Byzantine churches do it.
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Last edited by Miserissima; Feb 28, '12 at 10:00 am.
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  #42  
Old Feb 28, '12, 10:37 am
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Filii Dei Filii Dei is offline
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Default Re: ...and even more questions...

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Originally Posted by Vico View Post
It seems that one can never have too many domes:

Church of Transfiguration on Lake Onega (Kishi Island) in the Republic of Karelia, Russia (built without nails)

Kit:
Why does 'Transfiguration' sound so appropriate?
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  #43  
Old Feb 28, '12, 4:54 pm
MonkMoses MonkMoses is offline
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Default Re: ...and even more questions...

[QUOTE=Miserissima;9015057]No offense taken. I recall the concersations I had with my fahter -- he was OCA; my mother was Latin Rite.



I asked and regret that I didn't bring a notebook.

I was informed that the three-armed votive holder was brought before the altar three times during the Divine Liturgy, once before the Epistle (and the other two times I do not remember). It was only to bring attention to the sanctuary that something solemn is happening, and not all Byzantine churches do it.[/quote]

Sounds like she is refering to the troika, the 3 branched candle often used in Ruthenian and Ukrainian parishes during the epistle gospel and great entrance.
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  #44  
Old Feb 28, '12, 5:04 pm
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ByzCathCantor ByzCathCantor is offline
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Sounds like she is refering to the troika, the 3 branched candle often used in Ruthenian and Ukrainian parishes during the epistle gospel and great entrance.
I believe you are correct. In the Ruthenian church, the tradition has somewhat fallen to the wayside, but is occasionally still used during the Gospel reading, and always during great processions (Holy Week and great feasts / commemorations for which processions are customary).
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  #45  
Old Feb 28, '12, 6:33 pm
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Vico Vico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miserissima View Post
No offense taken. I recall the concersations I had with my fahter -- he was OCA; my mother was Latin Rite.



I asked and regret that I didn't bring a notebook.

I was informed that the three-armed votive holder was brought before the altar three times during the Divine Liturgy, once before the Epistle (and the other two times I do not remember). It was only to bring attention to the sanctuary that something solemn is happening, and not all Byzantine churches do it.
Sounds like she is refering to the troika, the 3 branched candle often used in Ruthenian and Ukrainian parishes during the epistle gospel and great entrance.
These:

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