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  #61  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:43 pm
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iloveangels iloveangels is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

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Originally Posted by Debora123 View Post
Lol so then you're saying that it WOULD be what God intends! I guess this is where we disagree.
NO. You have it BACKWARDS.

God intended for this girl to keep her pants on and marry correctly in the first place. And once married to stay with her commitment.

SHE is the one who screwed it up royally and got herself in this mess. SHE is the one who needs to be the PENITENT for the wrong doing she has brought upon herself.
  #62  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:44 pm
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Mary Gail 36 Mary Gail 36 is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

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Lol so then you're saying that it WOULD be what God intends! I guess this is where we disagree.
If she does not join the Church now, there could be resolution in the future.

She can attend Mass, and trust that if her desire is to be Catholic, God would help her fulfill that desire. He does do these things.
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  #63  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:44 pm
Debora123 Debora123 is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

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Originally Posted by iloveangels View Post
NO. You have it BACKWARDS.

God intended for this girl to keep her pants on and marry correctly in the first place. And once married to stay with her commitment.

SHE is the one who screwed it up royally and got herself in this mess. SHE is the one who needs to be the PENITENT.
I don't think you quite understand what I'm saying.
  #64  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:44 pm
ebonykawai ebonykawai is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

But where does God's mercy come in, in this situation? Or doesn't it?
  #65  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:46 pm
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iloveangels iloveangels is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

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I don't think you quite understand what I'm saying.
I DO understand what you're saying. You're saying that the Church should just accept her, messed up life and all, and in violation of the Church's laws about marriage. This is WRONG, it's BACKWARDS and it's not how these things work.

If this girl expects this, she has a big attitude problem.
  #66  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:47 pm
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Mary Gail 36 Mary Gail 36 is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

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But where does God's mercy come in, in this situation? Or doesn't it?
It can. If her desire is to be Catholic, she could attend Mass and pray for a resolution. She just might need patience.
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The Word became flesh, He lived among us, and we saw His glory, the glory that He has from the Father as only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.
  #67  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:48 pm
Debora123 Debora123 is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

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But where does God's mercy come in, in this situation? Or doesn't it?
Honestly, I think God's will would be for her to stay with her husband.

And this is where I am conflicted because this isn't what the Church would have her do. Not according to the letter of the law, anyway. Though I'm sure the vast majority of priests out there would agree that staying with her husband would indeed be the right thing to do.
  #68  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:49 pm
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iloveangels iloveangels is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

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But where does God's mercy come in, in this situation? Or doesn't it?
God's mercy is paired with God's justice. She can come to Mass and live a good life with God's help if she tries. Perhaps sometime in the future, things will get better for her if she stays with it. And then at the end of her life, she can speak to God about it, who will be merciful to her if she has turned her life around and fixed this AWFUL attitude problem of hers.

The Church is in no way required to accept wrong-doing just to make people pleased with themselves. Ever.
  #69  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:51 pm
ebonykawai ebonykawai is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

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It can. If her desire is to be Catholic, she could attend Mass and pray for a resolution. She just might need patience.
That's what I just thought, too.
  #70  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:52 pm
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Mary Gail 36 Mary Gail 36 is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

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Originally Posted by Debora123 View Post
Honestly, I think God's will would be for her to stay with her husband.

And this is where I am conflicted because this isn't what the Church would have her do. Not according to the letter of the law, anyway. Though I'm sure the vast majority of priests out there would agree that staying with her husband would indeed be the right thing to do.
Please go to my post and read the Catechism quote I provided. Here, I'll provide it again.


Quote:
Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery"160 the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God's law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.

1651 Toward Christians who live in this situation, and who often keep the faith and desire to bring up their children in a Christian manner, priests and the whole community must manifest an attentive solicitude, so that they do not consider themselves separated from the Church, in whose life they can and must participate as baptized persons:


They should be encouraged to listen to the Word of God, to attend the Sacrifice of the Mass, to persevere in prayer, to contribute to works of charity and to community efforts for justice, to bring up their children in the Christian faith, to cultivate the spirit and practice of penance and thus implore, day by day, God's grace.161
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Jesus, protect and save the unborn.

The Word became flesh, He lived among us, and we saw His glory, the glory that He has from the Father as only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.
  #71  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:52 pm
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iloveangels iloveangels is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debora123 View Post
Honestly, I think God's will would be for her to stay with her husband.

And this is where I am conflicted because this isn't what the Church would have her do. Not according to the letter of the law, anyway. Though I'm sure the vast majority of priests out there would agree that staying with her husband would indeed be the right thing to do.
I don't know why you're conflicted about that. She has to choose God or her sexual relationship with this man.

She needs to evaluate whether she can live brother-sister with this man, and if so, perhaps that is the best way to live out this mess that she's created for herself and everyone around her. If she can't, then she can't. This girl has some choices to make.
  #72  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:53 pm
agapewolf agapewolf is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

I was reading along and was thinking this whole approach is backwards, when Iloveangels finally started getting to it.

The church is upholding marriage in this situation. This has nothing to do with "mercy" or "forgiveness". This has to do with actual valid marriages and vows made. The church is HONORING her by believing her when she made vows the first time. Once determined to be in a valid marriage, the church in no way can encourage someone to live in adultery with someone else. If she truly believes in the Catholic church's teachings, then she realizes she is still married to the first guy. This is Christ's teachings that one can only be married to one person until death.

If the church were to "show forgiveness" as some want to call it, and just look the other way, then that pretty much discredits the church for any marriages in her view. Why should any vows be upheld then?
  #73  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:53 pm
BettyBoop416 BettyBoop416 is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

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Originally Posted by iloveangels View Post
NO. You have it BACKWARDS.

God intended for this girl to keep her pants on and marry correctly in the first place. And once married to stay with her commitment.

SHE is the one who screwed it up royally and got herself in this mess. SHE is the one who needs to be the PENITENT for the wrong doing she has brought upon herself.
I keep having these flashbacks of Dana Carvey doing the Church Lady dance on an old episode of Saturday Night Live.
  #74  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:54 pm
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iloveangels iloveangels is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

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Originally Posted by agapewolf View Post
i was reading along and was thinking this whole approach is backwards, when iloveangels finally started getting to it.

The church is upholding marriage in this situation. This has nothing to do with "mercy" or "forgiveness". This has to do with actual valid marriages and vows made. The church is honoring her by believing her when she made vows the first time. Once determined to be in a valid marriage, the church in no way can encourage someone to live in adultery with someone else. If she truly believes in the catholic church's teachings, then she realizes she is still married to the first guy. This is christ's teachings that one can only be married to one person until death.

If the church were to "show forgiveness" as some want to call it, and just look the other way, then that pretty much discredits the church for any marriages in her view. Why should any vows be upheld then?
Correct.
  #75  
Old Feb 23, '12, 8:55 pm
1ke 1ke is offline
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Default Re: A question about MARRIAGE and the Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debora123 View Post
So WHY would the Church require her to do this if it's not what God intends?
Your assertions that the Church "requires" something that it in fact does NOT require is really quite tiresome Debora. The Church does not require the family to "break up" in such a case.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo...sortio_en.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=vatic...&client=safari

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/po...ration_en.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debora123 View Post
Could the letter of the law actually ever have some grey areas?
No, the law does not have grey areas.

The pastoral response to the person who is in an irregular marriage in a concrete situation is another matter entirely.
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ke's universal disclaimer: In my posts, when I post about marriage, canon law, or sacraments I am talking about Latin Rite only, not the Orthodox and Eastern Rites. These are exceptions that confuse the issue and I am not talking about those.
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