Pelosi on church "enforcement" of its teachings - Page 3

**jmcrae** · #31 Feb 24, '12, 2:11 pm

The Church is not a police officer; she is a teacher.

As adult Catholics, it is up to us to follow the teachings we have been given. We answer to God; not to human beings.

What sort of "enforcement" would people like to see, anyway? Should the Church maintain its own system of jails, or what?

sedonaman · #32 Feb 24, '12, 2:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunemiester

...Just remember this whatever she says look it up and you'll know how to defend the truth. ...

No need to go to all that trouble. She is what I call a ThOpp-er: Think Opposite of what she says to know the truth.

sedonaman · #33 Feb 24, '12, 2:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcrae

The Church is not a police officer; she is a teacher.
...

What sort of "enforcement" would people like to see, anyway? Should the Church maintain its own system of jails, or what?

That's why I said she doesn't know what she is talking about. The minute the Church started "enforcing" its beliefs about sex or whatever, she would bellyache about "staying out of our bedrooms" et al. There is just no pleasing some people.

LilHomemaker · #34 Feb 24, '12, 2:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimG

Contraceptives are widely available right now! The Church can't keep people from usiing them, mandate or not. But the Church can respect her own teachings by not offering contraception, sterilization, and morning-after pills as a part of its own insurance package. The Church has a right not to be forced to contradict its own doctrine. So do Catholic institutions, and Catholic individuals for that matter.

There is simply no shortage of contraceptives. There is no need for a mandate.

If Catholics obtain abortions at the same rate as the general population, is that an excuse for the Church to offer abortion coverage in insurance policies offered by Catholic institutions?

No, it isn't, but be prepared for the HHS to mandate it in the coming years.

So true.

Teelynn · #35 Feb 25, '12, 2:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Olszewski

Sadly, yes.

I have to agree completely....that said, she has probably picked up some talking points from traditional Catholic bloggers who have voiced the same. As proud as I am now of our Bishops, they are a little late to the party. Better late than never, and they do have some catching up to do, but they have eventually "shown up". The problem being with some of them in their relative theology, some of the laity were all too happy to go along with the program. It can be very tempting when your Bishop gives the ok to do basically what you want.

**buffalo** · #36 Feb 27, '12, 8:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunemiester

Before we all get worked up about this, remember who we're talking about. Pelosi holds the title of "arch bishop of misinformation". This is the woman who gave a 20 minute speech in the house to support abortion then met Pope Benedict XVI with a rosary wrapped around her hand telling him how she prays it everynight with her grandkids. There are two books she's never read the Didache and the Catechism of the Catholic Church which is apparent by her knowledge of the faith!
Just remember this whatever she says look it up and you'll know how to defend the truth. Just because you haven't heard it from the pulpit doesn't mean the Church doesn't teach it, that's why we should all have a copy of the CCC in our homes!!

They all seem to be cut from the same cloth:

Congresswoman Hochul Booed

Part II - Fr Leon asks questions

Part III - she says its a proper accommadation, young man calls it a lie and an insult

Part IV - young man asks a question and she ducks out.....

Constitution Ignored for HHS Health Care Mandate

Congresswoman Kathy Hochul (NY State 26th District) denies that the Constitution was consulted for Obamacare HHS Mandate. She even implies that constitutionality was not considered for the entire Health Care law.

**catharina** · #37 Feb 27, '12, 9:09 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcrae

The Church is not a police officer; she is a teacher.

As adult Catholics, it is up to us to follow the teachings we have been given. We answer to God; not to human beings.

What sort of "enforcement" would people like to see, anyway? Should the Church maintain its own system of jails, or what?

You took the words right out of my mouth.
Thank you.

**pnewton** · #38 Feb 27, '12, 9:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcrae

The Church is not a police officer; she is a teacher.

This simple distinction seems to escape the Congresswoman. Her point is down right ignorant, switching the role of government and the Church as if the two are similar, and playing to those wanting simple solutions and talking points. I am surprised that such illogic was even attempted among college graduates.

The Catholic Church can not, will not, never can, "enforce" moral teaching. All she can do is teach. The federal governement on the other hand is wanting the Catholic Church to act in a way contrary to its teachings. Now the Church, as an entity can not contracept. That is the act of an individual. The Church can however pay to make this possible, or not. Only one choice is moral.

If Ms. Pelosi would exercise even a modicum of logic, she would see that what she is presenting as a contradiction is in fact comparing acts of the individuals, all who are admittely sinners with the teaching of the organization. Yet as one of the most active anticatholic Catholics, she can not resist the chance to attack the Holy Catholic Church and wound the Body of Christ on Earth to play to her constituency.

Lochias · #39 Feb 27, '12, 9:39 am

The teachings of the Church are readily available for anyone interested enough or serious enough about their faith to look. Our priests have a LOT of ground to cover, and they can't spend all of their homily time on one specific issue. I have not heard a homily in a while concerning birth control and the like, but I did not need to have it "fed to me" to know it's something we're not supposed to do.

If anything, I'd say that mediocre RCIA classes are more to blame, if blame should be apportioned at all. You can't lecture people on specifics when they don't get the basics. Even then, almost anyone truly invested in their Faith can pick up a copy of the Catechism, and ask a priest for specifics if they have questions.

As others have said, expecting the Church to "enforce" it's teachings is patently ridiculous; are nuns with rulers going to start patrolling the streets now?

All Pelosi is doing here is trying to turn Catholics against their own Church and its teachings, by laying blame where none can truly be laid.

**buffalo** · #40 Feb 27, '12, 9:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnewton

This simple distinction seems to escape the Congresswoman. Her point is down right ignorant, switching the role of government and the Church as if the two are similar, and playing to those wanting simple solutions and talking points. I am surprised that such illogic was even attempted among college graduates.

The Catholic Church can not, will not, never can, "enforce" moral teaching. All she can do is teach. The federal governement on the other hand is wanting the Catholic Church to act in a way contrary to its teachings. Now the Church, as an entity can not contracept. That is the act of an individual. The Church can however pay to make this possible, or not. Only one choice is moral.

If Ms. Pelosi would exercise even a modicum of logic, she would see that what she is presenting as a contradiction is in fact comparing acts of the individuals, all who are admittely sinners with the teaching of the organization. Yet as one of the most active anticatholic Catholics, she can not resist the chance to attack the Holy Catholic Church and wound the Body of Christ on Earth to play to her constituency.

When someone is bought and paid for it is truly amazing the gyrations they go through.

**Della** · #41 Feb 27, '12, 10:06 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalo

When someone is bought and paid for it is truly amazing the gyrations they go through.

Not only this, but she is indirectly slapping the face of her own bishop who has bent over backwards to try to make her see her errors without excommunicating her. Is that what she really wants? If she does, she is certainly asking for it. But if she were excommunicated she'd no doubt use it as a weapon--crying "foul" and "abuse" if she ever got the "enforcement" she thinks the Church should be doling out. Truly, by coddling her and others like her all the bishops have done is play right into their hands. These people will use any stick with which to beat the Church. It's a scandal of montrous porportions and why our bishops put up with it is beyone me. Maybe they think they'll get better treatment by the government and money for projects dear to them, but it's only feeding the crocodile who is just waiting for the opportunity to devour them and the Church. I think they are FINALLY waking up to the deception--please God they are!

Tigg · #42 Feb 27, '12, 10:12 am

Quote:

“Ninety-eight percent of women in childbearing age that are Catholic use contraception. So, in practice the church has not enforced this and now they want the federal government and private insurance to enforce it. It just isn’t consistent to me,” Pelosi said.

ok, Nancy....we now know the 98% is a very inflated figure, shame on you

, but yanno, I still agree with your general message. I concede that your use of the word "enforce" is not accurate because it is true the Church can only be the moral voice and we are free to accept or reject what we hear. But just what have we HEARD?? I agree with you that it has not been consistent. Not to start another HV debate here, but no Catholic can deny the heresy that has come from the mouths of much of the clergy or the tacit approval of the use of ABC by the omission of any condemnation.

And with the exception of a couple of bishops, we STILL are only hearing the civil argument. So where is the moral voice in the wilderness that will unabashedly speak truth?

sedonaman · #43 Feb 27, '12, 10:50 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigg

... But just what have we HEARD?? ... So where is the moral voice in the wilderness that will unabashedly speak truth?

It's been said that if parishioners don't hear it from the pulpit, they don't consider it important.

**buffalo** · #44 Feb 27, '12, 10:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedonaman

It's been said that if parishioners don't hear it from the pulpit, they don't consider it important.

You are so right. Good parents are trying to teach their children but do not hear it from the Church herself so they just think mom and dad are a little off.

The pastors need to address the tough stuff.

elgar · #45 Feb 27, '12, 12:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rence

They *could* repeat the teaching, and before Communion or after the homily, or some time before Mass, tell the congregation that they 'absolutely should not come up for Communion if they are contracepting'. You're right that they couldn't enforce it, but they could put it on the shoulders of the congregation.

Never gonna happen in a million years. I would predict a mass exodus with a drop in income that bishops and priests fear most. Don't get me wrong. I think this would be a good thing. Those remaining would be bolstered and contributions would eventually go up. By clergy avoiding the subject of ABC and other hot button issues only keeps many in the pews ignorant on what it means to be a Catholic in good standing.